You don’t think that a lot of people based their moral attitudes on what’s legal? And when someone like the president of the U.S. supports it openly and vocally, you don’t think that has any effect on people’s attitudes? People should follow better counsels, but oftentimes they don’t.I believe the only way to stop abortions is to change the mind of the women who want them, so yes, changing people’s minds (namely pregnant women who are considering abortion) will either have an abortion procured or rejected. Any service or product is available by demand. And I disagree that politicians are ‘promoting’ it. I don’t see anyone promoting it. I do see, however misguided it is, to make them available to those who want them, but that is very much different than promoting it.
For example, I’ve always had contraceptives covered on all of my insurance policies…I’ve never used this benefit. I don’t consider it a promotion or an encouragement to use them just because the benefit is available. I’m of the mindset of not using them. Therefore I don’t. It’s the same with abortion. Abortions are only had by those who don’t have the resolve of not having one. You have to help them discern not to have one.
A two year old child isn’t fully developed either, but you wouldn’t like it if a child that age got killed would you?no, since it would be completely inaccurate. i am a fully developed human. an embryo isnt.
But let me ask you this. Why do you discount the importance of opposing abortion politically?Of course you don’t. But you did use that same argument to explain why it was ok to decline to put up a yard sign in favor of doing something else pro-life. So I ask again, what is so unique about the political actions? Is it that they are orders of magnitude more effective in preventing abortion than anything else you could do? Because on that question I think people can legitimately disagree. Or is there some other reason that only voting is mandatory? I never said that only voting is mandatory. But it can certainly work.
I have seen plenty of very moving and challenging pro-life messages - and the best of them are not even political.
Therefore nothing more needs to be done I that area? So if 51% oppose abortion we should bother trying to raise that number to 70%? You obviously prefer the political approach to solving this problem but why would you then belittle any other approach?
I do not oppose prolife messages, and never said I do. I do not belittle it either. I am talking about the moral imperative to take political action when it’s available to us, which it is. Never did I say working against abortion in any other way is illegitimate or pointless.
No, voting is not the only thing we can do. And no, the root cause of abortions is people wanting abortions. Even if you make abortion illegal at best you will be returning to the 1950’s and 1960’s. And while there were fewer abortions then, there were still quite a lot. Changing hearts has the potential to stop even those abortions. **Unfortunately, a lot of people take their morals from the law. And I believe, as Pope Paul VI believed, that the death culture is not a single thing, but a mosaic. **
That is an extreme exaggeration of what I am saying. Of course voting has moral consequences. But so does putting up a yard sign. For example, suppose I put up a yard sign supporting a women’s right to choose abortion? I’m sure you would say that has moral consequences. So why are you discounting the moral consequences of putting up a yard sign that says the opposite? I’m not.
Yes, I would be at serious moral fault by walking away. But that scenario is much more direct and certain as to the outcome than voting for a politician. So let’s change your scenario a little to make it more like the voting scenario. Suppose that rather than standing in a remote place I am in the middle of a large city. And instead of witnessing a man choking a child hear a rumor that some guy named Fred is going to choke his son as punishment for wrecking the car. Would I be morally at fault if I failed to pass on to the police this vague rumor? That is a little closer to the situation of my voting for a politician.You would be morally at fault in either case. But not reporting on Fred is quite a bit different from not putting up the sign in your yard.
i forgot how good catholics are at twisting what you said to make your arguments look bad…A child isn’t fully developed either, but you wouldn’t like it if a child got killed would you?
Why? Just because you say so?i just said that i consider everything starting at the fetus stage as human!
well, yes. because it is my opinion.Why? Just because you say so?
You are confusing remote material cooperation with proximate material cooperation. Remote material cooperation, which is at issue here, is not necessarily sinful. If it were, we wouldn’t be able to do anything at all, because pretty much everything we do makes it possible for other people to commit a sin in some way.The Church teaches that those that have actively participated in the abortion process are excommunicated automatically. This is not a punishment it is a statement of fact that THEY have separated themselves from the Church. I do not believe that this would apply to all taxpayers since we do not get to determine how tax dollars are spent, yet I am making an assumption on how God will Judge me for the spending of tax dollars that I have little control over. That being said** if I vote for someone that I know will spend MY tax dollars supporting abortion then I am taking an ACTIVE part in the abortion process.** I have actively helped others procure abortion. **You can argue any way you want to but in the end you need to address this in prayer because the justification of your actions and separation from the church is with God. **
Because it involves taking innocent life. No one has the right to do that, no matter where it happens.well, yes. because it is my opinion.
and again, why shouldnt the mother have a right to say whats going to happen to her own body?
even if we are talking about a 14 year old girl who was raped and the baby would completely destroy her future or the birth might actually kill her? what about extreme situations like that?Because it involves taking innocent life. No one has the right to do that, no matter where it happens.
Edwin
What Pope has said that?It’s the position of my bishop also, and a lot of others. I think we have a duty to pay attention to such things, particularly when the Popes have said that supporting an abortion politician is permissible only when the purpose of the vote is to prevent the election of someone who is even more abortion supporting.