Voting your faith

  • Thread starter Thread starter GRATEFULONEjim
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

GRATEFULONEjim

Guest
I had a discussion yesterday with a fellow parishioner about voting our faith. I noticed an Obama 2012 pin on her handbag and questioned whether or not she believed that as a Catholic, she could in good faith, cast a vote for him. Needless to say the rest of the conversation was disturbing in the way she professed her “Cafeteria Catholic” views and squirmed her way through a rehearsed speech about how the issues of our society take precedence over faith. Where have we gone wrong, in that so many Catholics in the United States feel this way? How can we show that this type of behavior is not only destructive to the Church, but their eternal souls as well?
 
I had a discussion yesterday with a fellow parishioner about voting our faith. I noticed an Obama 2012 pin on her handbag and questioned whether or not she believed that as a Catholic, she could in good faith, cast a vote for him. Needless to say the rest of the conversation was disturbing in the way she professed her “Cafeteria Catholic” views and squirmed her way through a rehearsed speech about how the issues of our society take precedence over faith. Where have we gone wrong, in that so many Catholics in the United States feel this way? How can we show that this type of behavior is not only destructive to the Church, but their eternal souls as well?
To caesar what is caesar’s to God what is God’s
 
I had a discussion yesterday with a fellow parishioner about voting our faith. I noticed an Obama 2012 pin on her handbag and questioned whether or not she believed that as a Catholic, she could in good faith, cast a vote for him. Needless to say the rest of the conversation was disturbing in the way she professed her “Cafeteria Catholic” views and squirmed her way through a rehearsed speech about how the issues of our society take precedence over faith. Where have we gone wrong, in that so many Catholics in the United States feel this way? How can we show that this type of behavior is not only destructive to the Church, but their eternal souls as well?
Is she aware of the HHS mandate and what it means to the Catholic Church, regardless if she agrees with the teachings of the church?
 
Is she aware of the HHS mandate and what it means to the Catholic Church, regardless if she agrees with the teachings of the church?
Yes. We had a lengthy discussion about that and the fact that the government is treading on our religious freedoms. I’m just getting discouraged and almost a little angry the way some Catholics practice their faith. It gives Catholicism a bad name.
 
Yes. We had a lengthy discussion about that and the fact that the government is treading on our religious freedoms. I’m just getting discouraged and almost a little angry the way some Catholics practice their faith. It gives Catholicism a bad name.
The mainstream media has alot to blame for it, not to mention the perception the secular world has of the Catholic Church (child molesters, old men preventing women’s right to birth control, discrimanting against women by not allowing them to be ordained, etc.).

Whenever there is an article on the Des Moines Register’s website relating to battle against the HHS mandate, the reader comments associated with the article would be considered hate speech if the Jewish or Muslim faith was under attack by the Federal Government and not the Catholic Church.
 
I had a discussion yesterday with a fellow parishioner about voting our faith. I noticed an Obama 2012 pin on her handbag and questioned whether or not she believed that as a Catholic, she could in good faith, cast a vote for him. Needless to say the rest of the conversation was disturbing in the way she professed her “Cafeteria Catholic” views and squirmed her way through a rehearsed speech about how the issues of our society take precedence over faith. Where have we gone wrong, in that so many Catholics in the United States feel this way? How can we show that this type of behavior is not only destructive to the Church, but their eternal souls as well?
We ALL vote our faith…

If one examines the Gospels, one sees Jesus expressing this fact in many different ways. The “not everyone who cries, Lord Lord…” is one, the problem of serving two masters is another and “where your heart is, so is your treasure” is yet a third.

People can express with their moth to be Catholic - and then clearly show that they are not by there actions.

As to where we have gone wrong…Unfortunately much of this traces back to the 1960’s and a loss of good Catechesis in the U.S. This is highly over simplified, but there really is no need to rehash this matter.
All we can really do at this point is to do all we can to properly catechize ourselves and our children, pray for vocations and trust God to right His Church.

Peace
James
 
Yes. We had a lengthy discussion about that and the fact that the government is treading on our religious freedoms. I’m just getting discouraged and almost a little angry the way some Catholics practice their faith. It gives Catholicism a bad name.
Jim,

As someone who has regained and drifted away from my faith a couple times over the last decade, I would say to continue to be charitable and loving towards your friends.

I had a situation this past weekend where my brother-in-law and sister discussed how the pastor at my parents’ parish was too conservative and talked too much about repentance and made them feel guilty. The conversation got a little heated as I started to rail about Catholic’s infidelity to the teaching of the Church.

Eventually, my brother-in-law said, “Well, we realize we need to repent continually, but we also want to live our faith by being loving and more like Jesus.”

Although I was not fully satisfied, the conversation gave me some insight into how they saw me - as someone who talks about my faith and Jesus and everything, but doesn’t *always *act with the love that a Catholic should have. Perhaps I felt it was an unfair perception, but in a way it was a call to “walk my talk.”

I think your point is a valid one, Jim, that cafeteria Catholics and those who do not follow the teachings of the Church gives Catholics a bad name. For my part, I think as strong devout Catholics continue to live their faith fully with love and patience, it will attract those who are not - slowly perhaps, but I think more convincingly than mere words can do.

Although I did impress my siblings on one note - I promised them I wouldn’t argue with them about politics (most of my siblings are fairly liberal) out of love and respect for my parents (we were all visiting from out of town) and to focus on the passion, death, and resurrection of our Lord. And I kept my promise, even when my mother tried to stir up some discussion regarding Santorum/Romney. 🙂

God bless,
Bryan
 
I do know that Cardinal Burke, our FSSP priests and our local OF priest have all said that to vote for any politician whom supports abortion, gay marriage or euthanasia is to commit a grave sin.
 
…how the issues of our society take precedence over faith.
That’s the core of it IMO.

“If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me." John 15: 18-21

Take heart, Jim. You did what Christ has called us to do, which is to point out the errors we see our brothers and sisters making. It sounds like you also did it with the required amount of charity. You can’t make the final choice for anyone.

Give thanks to God that He has called you out of the world, and that He’s giving you evidence of that calling when the children of this world reject your message. And prepare yourself for even worse rejections than this - persecution even - over the coming years. This country, along with most of the world, is headed for dark days.
 
I had a discussion yesterday with a fellow parishioner about voting our faith. I noticed an Obama 2012 pin on her handbag and questioned whether or not she believed that as a Catholic, she could in good faith, cast a vote for him. Needless to say the rest of the conversation was disturbing in the way she professed her “Cafeteria Catholic” views and squirmed her way through a rehearsed speech about how the issues of our society take precedence over faith. Where have we gone wrong, in that so many Catholics in the United States feel this way? How can we show that this type of behavior is not only destructive to the Church, but their eternal souls as well?
It’s caused by a combination of things. The big 3 are poor teaching of the Catechism, poor teaching in public schools and poor teaching by the parents. Ultimately, it’s the parents responsibility to teach and show by their actions the importance of Catholic Values. Most parents are happy to let others teach their children and not do any themselves. Everybody wants to blame the teachers in public schools and the curriculum and it is bad but the parents don’t do anything about it! They could either homeschool or put their children in a Catholic School. If they put them in Catholic School, they still have to make sure they are taught properly. They can’t assume everything will be ok. In the home is where the foundation is laid. As adults, these children should continue to build on these values but you have to lay the foundation in their childhood. I think the main problem with children in public schools is that many of the parents don’t care.
 
I really think the problem is a matter of communication. The media and politicians speak in sound bites. The Church speaks in complete sentences and well constructed paragraphs.

Personally I prefer complete sentences and well constructed paragraphs but a lot of people simply do not want to listen.

“War on Women” A tidy little sound bite.

To try to explain to someone how foolish that sound bite is would require an audience with an attention span greater than five minutes.
 
I really think the problem is a matter of communication. The media and politicians speak in sound bites. The Church speaks in complete sentences and well constructed paragraphs.

Personally I prefer complete sentences and well constructed paragraphs but a lot of people simply do not want to listen.

“War on Women” A tidy little sound bite.

To try to explain to someone how foolish that sound bite is would require an audience with an attention span greater than five minutes.
👍👍

Very nicely put!!

Peace
James
 
This is my very first post on this site, so be gentle.

It seems to be in vogue to explain away the political tendencies of “liberal” Catholics as a results of poor catechesis, however I think this is a rather condescending oversimplification that avoids the reality that it is possible to have differing opinions on political matters. For many people (Catholics included), Obama’s pro-choice policies are not dispositive.

Ultimately the President has very little control over whether abortion remains legal in this country, and has only very limited authority over where federal money goes. We had two terms of Bush, an ostensibly pro-life president, and abortion remained completely legal. The legality of abortion under the Constitution is going to be an issue only the Supreme Court will have any meaningful say on, so unless you’re willing to allow your vote to be based solely on who a potential president might appoint to that court, I think looking beyond the abortion issue is quite reasonable.

While I personally will not be voting for Obama this November, I fail to see how the policies of a Santorum or Romney administration would be any more objectively pro-life than the current administration. They may appoint justices who would be willing to overturn Roe v. Wade, but ultimately their support of the military-industrial complex and health care make them far less “pro-life” than the single issue of abortion may indicate.

So I think it’s good to weigh abortion heavily when deciding who to vote for, but understand also that its legality doesn’t really hinge on the person occupying the oval office.
 
The political parties in this country are not balanced around issues of faith. Sure the Republicans are against abortion and they believe life begins at conception (as I do) but the problem with them is that they stop caring at birth. Most women who have abortions have them based on economic reasons. Republicans believe in cutting welfare, Medicaid and food stamps (entitlements). So in effect, like it or not, the Republican party wishes to deny medical care, food and shelter to these children. That doesn’t sound very Christ like. I used to work with the division of welfare and saw it for myself.

I was once shocked to hear a very conservative traditional Priest say that at the final Judgement Democrats will have a lot of questions to answer for, while Republicans will have a lot of questions to ask…

When did we see you hungry or thirsty? When did we see you a stranger? When did we see you naked or ill or in prison and not minister to your needs?

There’s little need for interpretation in Matthew 25: 31-46
 
The political parties in this country are not balanced around issues of faith. Sure the Republicans are against abortion and they believe life begins at conception (as I do) but the problem with them is that they stop caring at birth. Most women who have abortions have them based on economic reasons. Republicans believe in cutting welfare, Medicaid and food stamps (entitlements). So in effect, like it or not, the Republican party wishes to deny medical care, food and shelter to these children. That doesn’t sound very Christ like. I used to work with the division of welfare and saw it for myself.

I was once shocked to hear a very conservative traditional Priest say that at the final Judgement Democrats will have a lot of questions to answer for, while Republicans will have a lot of questions to ask…

When did we see you hungry or thirsty? When did we see you a stranger? When did we see you naked or ill or in prison and not minister to your needs?

There’s little need for interpretation in Matthew 25: 31-46
The priest was correct. Democrats will have a multitude of questions to answer. Even though the parties may not be run on faith, you have the choice at the ballot box to change the fact that promoting a valueless, moral deficient, culture of death, agenda is not acceptable for our nation.by our Catholic standards. It is not only the government that can lay claim to taking care of the poor and disadvantaged, though the are certainly trying to force it to be that way…(HMS) ring a bell to anyone.
 
This is my very first post on this site, so be gentle.

It seems to be in vogue to explain away the political tendencies of “liberal” Catholics as a results of poor catechesis, however I think this is a rather condescending oversimplification that avoids the reality that it is possible to have differing opinions on political matters. For many people (Catholics included), Obama’s pro-choice policies are not dispositive.

Ultimately the President has very little control over whether abortion remains legal in this country, and has only very limited authority over where federal money goes. We had two terms of Bush, an ostensibly pro-life president, and abortion remained completely legal. The legality of abortion under the Constitution is going to be an issue only the Supreme Court will have any meaningful say on, so unless you’re willing to allow your vote to be based solely on who a potential president might appoint to that court, I think looking beyond the abortion issue is quite reasonable.

While I personally will not be voting for Obama this November, I fail to see how the policies of a Santorum or Romney administration would be any more objectively pro-life than the current administration. They may appoint justices who would be willing to overturn Roe v. Wade, but ultimately their support of the military-industrial complex and health care make them far less “pro-life” than the single issue of abortion may indicate.

So I think it’s good to weigh abortion heavily when deciding who to vote for, but understand also that its legality doesn’t really hinge on the person occupying the oval office.
Welcome. Not a bad first post at all.

You are right that the individual occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW cannot, by fiat, overturn Roe v Wade. And even if, in theory, he could, that would not prevent some states from keeping the process legal. After all, there were a few states that allowed mothers to slaughter their babies in the womb prior to that decision – there would be plenty who would have no part in re-criminalizing the process if that decision is ever reversed.

Having said that, there is a tremendous amount that a President can do to make it a whole lot more difficult. His first day in office, he could immediately cut off the abortion funding that is part of our foreign aid and part of our UN contributions. As soon as he could get a pro-life HHS secretary in place, he could dismantle all the regulatory structure that provides federal funding for abortion (while under the annual Hyde Amendments that are part of the annual appropriation bills, direct funding of abortion not allowed, there is a whole lot of indirect funding that goes on).

Of course, he appoints all federal judges (subject to Senate confirmation). He could make respect for life, from the moment of fertilization, a litmus test in who he appoints. But he also appoints all US attorneys for the country. Ensuring they are all enthusiastically pro-life will make sure that the arguments for life made in the courts are vigorously upheld.

And then there is the bully pulpit. Never underestimate that. During the 8 years of GW Bush, the March for Life always got verbal support. Imagine if a President actually appeared in person there…and maybe even marched with us? What about a national proclamation of National Right To Life Day…also within his power. And a declaration that all flags at government buildings in the US were to be flown at half-staff, in remembrance of the 55,000,000 lives that have been needlessly taken through abortion? What kind of powerful message would that send?

Granted, a president can’t overturn Roe v Wade, but there is a HUGE amount that one can do.
 
I really think the problem is a matter of communication. The media and politicians speak in sound bites. The Church speaks in complete sentences and well constructed paragraphs.

Personally I prefer complete sentences and well constructed paragraphs but a lot of people simply do not want to listen.

“War on Women” A tidy little sound bite.

To try to explain to someone how foolish that sound bite is would require an audience with an attention span greater than five minutes.
I’m sure we can think in terms of slogans, too.

For instance: Which ought to carry more weight in deciding this country’s laws:
“The First Amendment, or a bunch of horny feminists?” 😃

Or throw one of their old ones back in their face: accuse them of blind faith - in Obama.

“You sheeple must be very stupid to unquestioningly follow Obama’s lead whenever he tells you to.”

“When one of our rights are violated, all of them are. Thank you for being Obama’s cattle, willingly going to the slaughter in the name of tyranny.”

Or perhaps just very simply:

“Do some research, you hoodwinked simpleton. There IS no ‘War on Women’ !”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top