Wal-Mart redefines 'family' in new policy

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vern,

From the catechism:

II. GOOD ACTS AND EVIL ACTS

1755 A morally good act requires the goodness of the object, of the end, and of the circumstances together. An evil end corrupts the action, even if the object is good in itself (such as praying and fasting “in order to be seen by men”). The object of the choice can by itself vitiate an act in its entirety. There are some concrete acts - such as fornication - that it is always wrong to choose, because choosing them entails a disorder of the will, that is, a moral evil.

1756 It is therefore an error to judge the morality of human acts by considering only the intention that inspires them or the circumstances (environment, social pressure, duress or emergency, etc.) which supply their context. There are acts which, in and of themselves, independently of circumstances and intentions, are always gravely illicit by reason of their object; such as blasphemy and perjury, murder and adultery. One may not do evil so that good may result from it.

Catholic hospitals and clinics who allow evil (abortion, contraceptives, emergency birth control) are no longer Catholic. They have lost their witness. The Church, and all of its official agencies, cannot commit evil in order to do good. If Catholic hositals and clinics cave to the secular laws and handout the bill and do abortions–then they are no longer Catholic and they may *** well sell to the secularists. They cannot try to do charity, while killing babies…they cannot do evil to gain some good…it is completely against Catholic teaching.

The options are fairly clear.

Option #2: They can appeal the laws. Which they are currently doing.

if the appeal goes against them, then:

Option #2: The Church can defy the laws, which they have a right to do considering they are a religious organization. If they choose that path they would likely loose their license. Yet, the case might go to a higher court, invoking constituional rights to freedom of religion.

or

Option #3: Refuse all state and federal funds and hire only Catholic employees…thereby taking away any control the government could claim on them.

or

Option #4: Sell all their related hosptials and clinics. This would greatly impact the culture, yet the Church would remain true to the Gospel of our Lord. The Church coudl then find alternate ways to help the poor.

Option #5: Accept the laws and cease being Catholic.

If it were me, I would do option #1 first, then option #3 second. If they both failed, I would shut the doors to all hospitals and clinics and poor more money into feeding and clothing the poor and leave the health care to the secularists. I would feel there was no choice.
 
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TPJCatholic:
Catholic hospitals and clinics who allow evil (abortion, contraceptives, emergency birth control) are no longer Catholic. They have lost their witness. The Church, and all of its official agencies, cannot commit evil in order to do good. If Catholic hositals and clinics cave to the secular laws and handout the bill and do abortions–then they are no longer Catholic and they may *** well sell to the secularists. They cannot try to do charity, while killing babies…they cannot do evil to gain some good…it is completely against Catholic teaching. .
I agree.
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TPJCatholic:
Option #4: Sell all their related hosptials and clinics. This would greatly impact the culture, yet the Church would remain true to the Gospel of our Lord. The Church coudl then find alternate ways to help the poor…
I do not agree – that’s Pilate washing his hands again.
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TPJCatholic:
If it were me, I would do option #1 first, then option #3 second. If they both failed, I would shut the doors to all hospitals and clinics and poor more money into feeding and clothing the poor and leave the health care to the secularists. I would feel there was no choice.
Why not leave the hospitals open, and run them according to Catholic morality?

Are we afraid of being thrown to the wild beasts?
 
vern,

I suggested options #1 and #2 (although I marked #1 as the first #2 in my post).

Under those options the first thing I would do is aggresively appeal the laws…if that appeal did not work then I would use option #3, as follows:

Option #3: Refuse all state and federal funds and hire only Catholic employees…thereby taking away any control the government could claim on them.

My assumption is that the state would pull the license to operate, thereby making it impossible for doctors/nurses to work there. Therefore, I feel the best 2nd option is #3 where the hospitals and clinics completely reorganize so the state cannot control them.

We cannot do evil to gain a good…it just is not moral.
 
Let’s be clear. WalMart was under no legal obligation to adopt the policy they did. it was voluntary and, I think, ill advised. I would hope they would recind it immediately.
 
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TPJCatholic:
I do not shop at walmart for this very reason, among many other reasons.
Good idea. I’m staying away from that place.

Padre Pio “The Rosary is the weapon.”
 
Hate the sin. love the sinner. I can’t stay away from WalMart if I tried, although I don’t agree with them. I also don’t agree that they don’t have pregnant-lady parking, but I still go there.
 
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TPJCatholic:
My assumption is that the state would pull the license to operate, thereby making it impossible for doctors/nurses to work there.
They cannot make it impossible for doctors and nurses to work there – they can only make it unlawful.

At one time it was unlawful to refuse to sacrifice to pagan gods – and the penalty was death. At one time it was unlawful to practice Catholicism in England and Ireland – and the penalty was death.

What are they going to do – throw us to the wild beasts, or hang us?
 
Walmart acquires something like 20,000,000,000 dollars worth of products from China alone! If Americans want more jobs…then shop elsewhere.
 
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TPJCatholic:
Walmart acquires something like 20,000,000,000 dollars worth of products from China alone! If Americans want more jobs…then shop elsewhere.
:amen:

In China, where the Catholic Church is persecuted.
 
Yes, from China, where our Lord’s Priests and Bishops are (name removed by moderator)risoned.
 
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TPJCatholic:
Yes, from China, where our Lord’s Priests and Bishops are (name removed by moderator)risoned.
tell it, brother. … preach it!!:clapping: :yup:

TPJ, you are a true Christian witness!!
 
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katherine2:
I believe we should have universal health care making domestic partner benefits a moot point ( and I believe this because this is what my Church tells me is right).

Of course, the Church also teaches that its not the employers place to reject unions, but a decision of the workers.
So what is your opposition to Walmart’s domestic partner benefit policy as it stands now with current conditions?
 
In China, where the Catholic Church is persecuted.
[/quote]

So people in China shouldn’t have jobs because the Church is persecuted there?
 
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Brad:
So what is your opposition to Walmart’s domestic partner benefit policy as it stands now with current conditions?
Are you more clever than some of the other posters?
 
Brad,

Should a faithful Catholic support abortion?

Should a faithful Catholic support slavery?

Should a faithful Catholic support child labor?

Should a faithful Catholic support the transfer of hundreds of thousands of jobs, and capital, to a nation that supports of the things listed above, and much more?
 
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TPJCatholic:
Brad,

Should a faithful Catholic support abortion?

Should a faithful Catholic support slavery?

Should a faithful Catholic support child labor?

Should a faithful Catholic support the transfer of hundreds of thousands of jobs, and capital, to a nation that supports of the things listed above, and much more?
On questions 1,2, and 3, I vehemently oppose all 3 (but I think you knew that already).

On question 4, I would also say no but with a caveat. I do not think it is right to oppose international capitalistic competition nor the dumbing down of the American workforce. If we are opposed to the governmental policies of a country and we can effectively punish the government through non-export/purchase of their products then that is fine. However, these issues are usually much more complicated than that. Often, opposing products “made in China” will negatively impact jobs right here in the United States.

As a result, I do not support the use of “bad governments” to support the cause of anti-globalization/pro-union groups. China is an extreme example but these groups generally oppose anything that means a job shift here at home. The economy, whether we like it or not, is global. We are going through a time of massive economic transition. It is in America’s best interests to be the leaders of the new economy so that we can provide good-paying jobs to all citizens. It is not in America’s best interests to protect high-paying union jobs for low skill tasks that can be done much cheaper, while still supporting a family.

Private enterprise worldwide will make the world safer and will decrease world poverty. The best course will involve some give and take - and require change.
 
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Brad:
I doubt it. Are you going to answer the question?
Oh, then definately not. 😃 I play a lot of cards, but this is interesting where I win by simply not showing my hand. I’ll leave a note in my will that this should all be explained to you at my death.
 
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katherine2:
I’ve reflected on this and I have decided WalMart’s policy is totally wrong. They should be asked to recind it.
You never said–what made you change your mind? Why were you for it initially, and what caused you to think the other way? I’m genuinely curious to know.
 
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