"Wales has decided to close the Churches again. I will be arrested before I deny the sacraments to the people of God again."

  • Thread starter Thread starter IanM
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Wales did not decide to “close the churches down”. That is a fundamentally dishonest account of what they actually did, which was to shut essentially EVERYTHING down except the very barest essentials for life support. Churches were not “targeted” in any way. They remain available for weddings and funerals (with reasonable restrictions), and for live-streamed services without a congregation.
 
Why can’t Mass be celebrated in peoples’ homes or outside, abiding by social distancing guidelines?
 
lwest said:
Why can’t Mass be celebrated in peoples’ homes or outside, abiding by social distancing guidelines?
Click to expand...
The whole point of the lock down is that you do not leave your home at all or let anyone else into your home unless it is absolutely necessary for survival. It’s social distancing turned up to eleven.

Hopefully, a brief period of this extreme isolation will decrease the pool of infected people to the point where the risk will be substantially lower sooner rather than later. It’s a sound policy.
 
I agree. I was just wondering. The term ‘absolutely necessary’ is relative. Where I live, when we were on lockdown, there was more traffic around the house than before the lockdown. I guess everything became ‘absolutely necessary’.
 
Jbrady said:
Wales did not decide to “close the churches down”.
Click to expand...
It’s true they didn’t decide to specifically close churches, but the national lockdown is once again going to prevent people from being able to go to mass and receive the sacraments, as the priest points out. I think he has a right to be angry after so many months of churches being closed, even if perhaps this isn’t a policy targeting churches per se.
Jbrady said:
It’s a sound policy.
Click to expand...
I disagree. When they open up again in two weeks, what then? The same thing is going to happen. Should they have these 2 week national lockdowns every month? How practical would that be?
 
The most accurate information will be found here:

https://gov.wales/coronavirus-firebreak-frequently-asked-questions#section-53267
adamhovey1988 said:
What was the point of opening them back up, then?
Click to expand...
Because the Welsh Government thought that it would be safe to do so. With the infection rate climbing once again, it no longer seems safe.
lwest said:
Why can’t Mass be celebrated in peoples’ homes or outside
Click to expand...
The Welsh Government has set out clear rules about this:

https://gov.wales/coronavirus-firebreak-frequently-asked-questions#section-53251

A clergyman (or woman—to include Wales’s Protestant denominations) is permitted to hold religious services in his own home for the benefit of himself and his household. If he lives alone or is a single parent, he can form a temporary extended household with one other adult and they could attend services in each other’s homes. Outdoor services would seem to be prohibited, as a religious service is not a form of exercise. It is also likely to be raining most of the time over the coming weeks.
Polak said:
Should they have these 2 week national lockdowns every month?
Click to expand...
Well, that is the fundamental question that all governments will be asking themselves right now. We cannot keep locking down indefinitely, but the question is how we balance the need to control the spread of the virus with the need to return to normal life.
 
Last edited:
TK421 said:
Fr David Palmer must obey his bishop.
Click to expand...
Confusingly, Father David Palmer is a priest of the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham and lives in Nottingham, so I don’t know why he is tweeting about potentially being arrested for breaking the law in Wales.
 
Seems as though he is tweeting about it as a way of saying, if they try to do this where he is, he won’t give in.
 
How very melodramatic of him - especially given that breaches are only punishable by a fine.

The lockdown is intended to protect the elderly and vulnerable as well as preventing hospitals and healthcare services from becoming overwhelmed. That said, nobody said anything about the sacraments being denied - they are merely being curtailed. From reading the guidelines, communion to the sick would seem to be permissible, as would the sacrament of reconciliation (where serious need arises) and definitely anointing of the sick. Strangely, weddings are expressly permitted as are funerals so baptisms would probably be included by implication although these can realistically wait a few weeks.

Being a pastor is about more the simply dispensing sacraments (not that these aren’t important of course); it’s about care of souls and that includes being mindful of the physical needs and vulnerabilities of all in society.
TK421 said:
Fr David Palmer must obey his bishop.
Click to expand...
As well as the local bishop/s for the territory he’s ministering in.
scousekiwi said:
It is also likely to be raining most of the time over the coming weeks.
Click to expand...
This is Wales we’re talking about after all 😛
 
Polak said:
Seems as though he is tweeting about it as a way of saying, if they try to do this where he is, he won’t give in.
Click to expand...
Possibly. I just hope that he obeys the law and doesn’t do anything to increase the spread of the virus. Honestly, I think that we have higher priorities than going to church right now.
 
Good for him. We need more priests to step up and do what is right.

No more banning mass!
 
If that is what is necessary and right, yes. Each priest will have to make his own determination about that based on the examination of their own conscience. Catholics have a right to the Sacraments, we cannot be denied them indefinitely.
 
Useless said:
If that is what is necessary and right, yes. Each priest will have to make his own determination about that based on the examination of their own conscience. Catholics have a right to the Sacraments, we cannot be denied them indefinitely.
Click to expand...
So it’s okay to ignore the direction of a Bishop…interesting…
 
In certain cases it is not only okay to ignore a Bishop’s order, but it is the duty of a priest to ignore a bishop’s order.

Whether this is one of those cases or not will be up to the priest in question to determine for himself. I have no authority or desire to order a priest to do anything.
 
Useless said:
Catholics have a right to the Sacraments, we cannot be denied them indefinitely.
Click to expand...
You’re not. And you know that.

Protect yourselves and your families. Stay at home. Do not go out for any non essential reason. Listen to medical advice. You are approaching 20,000 cases a day! For heavens sake, take this seriously!
 
Last edited:
I am not, thankfully, but others are. And for a time I was also. It was very spiritually damaging for me and for others who I know. That the damage done to us was ignored was very sad, but easy to forgive.

I don’t believe the threat is as severe as you think it is, nor do I think the risk to my or anyone else’s physical health is worth losing my soul. And thankfully, my bishop has allowed mass to continue so there is no disobedience here!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top