Want men's opinion on women's modesty

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Augustine said:
PS: isn’t it interesting that it’s mostly women who decry any attempt to set practical guidelines of modesty as we see in this thread?
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Since they (not men) are the ones who would bear the burden of such guidelines, it stands to follow that women are the ones who would protest.

I don’t see any women decrying modesty itself, however. And that is notable.

I can’t speak for every woman who has replied, only myself. I personally don’t think that lists of modesty guidelines are very helpful to a woman. As we have seen here in this very thread, every man is different. Some are tempted by legs, some are not. Some by arms, some not. Some by shoulders, some not. Some only by slim & fit women, some by women of all sizes. And so on.

This fact (and a number of other factors) makes modesty guidelines impossible to standardize. By the time we cover every man’s various temptations, women are indeed wearing burqas and barred from several enjoyable activities (swimming, team sports, dancing…).

The goal of modesty in dress is to help member of the opposite sex to avoid unreasonable temptation. Not all temptation.

More specific guidelines simply aren’t necessary. The woman growing in faith and desiring to be modest will be prayerful in her approach to this problem and will succeed in avoiding improper clothing. The immodest woman does not care to change at this point in her life and will not take a list of guidelines seriously anyhow.

That said, I truly appreciate the honesty of the men who have responded to this thread. :clapping: Bless you!
 
By the time we cover every man’s various temptations, women are indeed wearing burqas and barred from several enjoyable activities (swimming, team sports, dancing…).
This is exactly what I mean. It’s just impossible to have a productive discussion about modesty…😦 Well, it’s not men who make teenage girls buy thongs and wear them exposed, but they do so with their mothers’ acquiescence.

:blessyou:
 
JezuUfamTobie said:
Since they (not men) are the ones who would bear the burden of such guidelines, it stands to follow that women are the ones who would protest.

I don’t see any women decrying modesty itself, however. And that is notable.

I can’t speak for every woman who has replied, only myself. I personally don’t think that lists of modesty guidelines are very helpful to a woman. As we have seen here in this very thread, every man is different. Some are tempted by legs, some are not. Some by arms, some not. Some by shoulders, some not. Some only by slim & fit women, some by women of all sizes. And so on.

This fact (and a number of other factors) makes modesty guidelines impossible to standardize. By the time we cover every man’s various temptations, women are indeed wearing burqas and barred from several enjoyable activities (swimming, team sports, dancing…).

The goal of modesty in dress is to help member of the opposite sex to avoid unreasonable temptation. Not all temptation.

More specific guidelines simply aren’t necessary. The woman growing in faith and desiring to be modest will be prayerful in her approach to this problem and will succeed in avoiding improper clothing. The immodest woman does not care to change at this point in her life and will not take a list of guidelines seriously anyhow.

That said, I truly appreciate the honesty of the men who have responded to this thread. :clapping: Bless you!
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feet are noy to be showed as per some men are attracted to pretty feet.
 
blackrobe said:
  1. Au contraire. In general I find any skirt or dress more “interesting” than any pants.
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My sentiments exactly, Blackrobe.

When I was in high school, a group of us guys had this quasi-football pool thing going on each week with a group of girls. When the girls lost, the pay-off was that they had to wear dresses to school on Monday. Suffice it to say, the girls received a lot compliments on those days that they wore dresses. So much so that they actually started picking the underdogs each week while not asking for any points in return.
 
Augustine said:
By the time we cover every man’s various temptations, women are indeed wearing burqas and barred from several enjoyable activities (swimming, team sports, dancing…).
This is exactly what I mean. It’s just impossible to have a productive discussion about modesty…😦 Well, it’s not men who make teenage girls buy thongs and wear them exposed, but they do so with their mothers’ acquiescence.

:blessyou:
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So why the thumbs down? I’m as much against public underwear flashing as you are. The list we’ve been discussing on the thread forbids a lot more more than that, however. It’s my opinion that flaunting one’s undergarments in public is already clearly inappropriate to any woman even half-heartedly beginning an attempt to be modest. No need for a list to tell her so.

And any immodest woman reading the list would immediately be put off at the thought of having to wear elbow-length shirts on a 90 degree summer day. How helpful is a list of modesty guidelines if it goes too far and scares away women who might have benefitted from it?

Let me be clear about where I stand:
  1. Modesty is GREAT. Let’s be modest.
  2. “Standardized” modesty guidelines generally stink. Especially this one.
You make a very good point about parental involvement. We Catholic parents have a huge responsibility in bringing up our children not only to be modest but also to be aware of the reasons behind modesty. Speaking as a former teen girl myself, I think many young women have no clue how their manner of dress affects the opposite sex. It’s very important to inform them, because such ignorance can little by little lead to devastating consequences.

(But let’s not confuse them or weaken our argument by saying that their biceps are private parts that must be covered at all times. :eek: )
 
Any of you ladies attend any rape/self defense courses? What do they tell you to wear?
 
If women only wore burlap bags, men would still lust for them.

Lust isn’t the creation of the woman, but rather, it’s the inordinate desire of the man which he produces in his own mind. It’s what he would do to her, for himself, if given the chance. It’s the extension of his own ego and will, onto her.

Jim
 
Firstly, why have so many women co-opted a thread specifically asking for men’s opinion on modesty. Maybe another thread should be started.

Secondly, for all those who feel oppressed when the general public is deprived of viewing thier private parts, I am reminded of the famous adage, “we become part of what we condone.”

God has given us all free will. We know from scripture that the path to Heaven is a narrow path. If you are willing to gamble your soul on the premise that wearing sensual and revealing clothing is the best way to keep your balance on this narrow path, than you are free to make that choice. But make no mistake, you are making these choices with your soul in your hands. I pray your choice is correct.
 
buffalo said:
Any of you ladies attend any rape/self defense courses? What do they tell you to wear?
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Are you asking this tongue-in-cheek? Most rape/self-defense classes cite studies showing no correlation between rape and revealing attire. (Nor between rape and “attractiveness”.)
 
JezuUfamTobie said:
Are you asking this tongue-in-cheek? Most rape/self-defense classes cite studies showing no correlation between rape and revealing attire. (Nor between rape and “attractiveness”.)
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10 Powerful Self Defense Tips For Women

Since most women fear attacks of a sexual nature more than anything else most of my quick tips are geared towards that.
If you are a woman, here is a list of ten simple things that you can do immediately that will increase your safety:
1 - Do not wear revealing clothing in public places. Doing so will ensure that you attract plenty of attention, including attention from those people with evil intent. Be discrete and leave provocative wear to those times when you can enjoy the intimacy of your partner.
 
LatinMassFan said:
Firstly, why have so many women co-opted a thread specifically asking for men’s opinion on modesty. Maybe another thread should be started.
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Yeah, the thread has already served its purpose. Some men agreed with some or all of the guidelines and some did not. The OP did thank women for responding as well.
LatinMassFan said:
Secondly, for all those who feel oppressed when the general public is deprived of viewing thier private parts, I am reminded of the famous adage, “we become part of what we condone.”
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Who are you talking to? :confused:

Those of us (men and women) who disagreed with parts of the original list are all for modesty. Most of us specifically mentioned disliking provocative clothing. We’re talking about women going out in public dressed in a modest pair of jeans and a t-shirt… not go-go boots and a string bikini. I see I’m making no progress with this, so I’ll stop. It would have been nice to have a conversation on the subject without people resorting to the straw man. 😦

Maybe I’ll give it another try in a new thread sometime.
 
Here’s my 0.02 worth.

Number one, you need to make a distinction between clothing that invites a man to lust (notice I did not type, “causes a man to lust”), and clothing that catches a man’s eye. There’s a huge difference.

You can wear a beautiful dress, and still find yourself being looked at. This is not necessarily bad. In fact, some women claim they get more looks when dressed modestly. This may be evidence that they are getting noticed, but not lusted over. A man who is looking lustfully at a woman typically tries to hide it because he feels a sense of shame (mirrored sunglasses). But if the men aren’t trying to hide the fact that they’re noticing you they probably aren’t looking with lustful thoughts. I’m sure there are a number of shameless men who’ll openly drool over you, but I hope that’s rare.

As for the level of coverage and tightness of clothing - I believe that has to be balanced by the activity and location you’re engaged in. At the gym, pool, or otherwise engaged in strenuous activity - I believe a tolerance for less clothing should be accepted. However, separation of the sexes should be tolerated too. Unfortunately women won’t tolerate an all-mens fitness club.

The standards listed are perhaps a bit conservative since I don’t recall thinking that pants are any worse than skirts or dresses. It all depends on the fit and cut. Tight fitting jeans, or worse those jeans with the buttons of the button-fly exposed are bad.
 
fiat1122 said:
feet are noy to be showed as per some men are attracted to pretty feet.
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Attraction has nothing to do with the issue. Rather it is about self-responsibility in the manner of dress so that we do not cause another to sin - lust. Attraction is not a bad thing.
 
One of the things Colleen does is hold up our Blessed Mother as a example for us. Virtually all respondents said they saw absolutley nothing wrong with an arm showing, especially if the shoulder is covered. In Mass this morning I was looking at a statue of Mary. I think we would all do a double take if there were a statue of her with her arms showing! It’s good to try to contemplate exactly what she would wear if she were here today.
 
Little_Flower said:
I think we would all do a double take if there were a statue of her with her arms showing! It’s good to try to contemplate exactly what she would wear if she were here today.
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We’d also all do a double take if we saw a statue of Jesus in a modern day suit with a necktie.

Statues or paintings of the Blessed Mother and Jesus dressed outside of the styles of their time, which we are accustomed to, would make us step back.

It would be no different if today, a woman showed up at Mass dressed like the Blessed Mother . She’d be more of a distraction than a woman dressed in a modern day dress with bare shoulders.

If we lived in Africa and the women all show up topless as is their custom, are they being irreverent?
 
Good points to the previous poster. No I would not be immodest if that were the norm of modesty if Africa. The hard part in America is finding a norm for modesty when societal norms for bare bellies, skin tight cloths and plunging necklines. I am starting to agree with whomever it was that said making hard and fast rules will inevitably be an exercise in futility. We need to do our best dress with dignity and charity for our brothers in Christ.
 
Little_Flower said:
Let’s face it, a good number of young ladies could use a little guilt for the way they dress. Satan will always try to make us proud the second we grow in any virtue. It’s always a struggle.

.
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I think that being judgmental is equal in sin to dressing provocatively. In fact it might even be a worse sin to sit in judgement of another person.(I am speaking of myself here, not you)

I used to wear very loose dresses and I began to look down on other women who did not dress the same. God put a lot of women in my path who did not dress modestly-or at least to the extent that I did-but were superior to me in terms of kindness, love, and overall goodness. This humbled me tremendously.

I think that there might be too much emphasis among Christian women on protecting men, or keeping men from stumbling. That is where such lists come from. You should not dress modestly for anyone else but because you respect yourself and your body as God’s temple. Did that make sense?

When I discuss modest dress with my ten year old daughter, I tell her that she should dress modestly because she is an intelligent, beautiful girl who deserves to always be treated with respect not because men need women to protect them.
 
Augustine said:
PS: isn’t it interesting that it’s mostly women who decry any attempt to set practical guidelines of modesty as we see in this thread?
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I noticed the opposite, that many men on this thread were saying that this was a very strict list and that pants, as long as they are not tight, do not bother them.
 
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