Want men's opinion on women's modesty

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About pants, is it possible that the environment we live in now has sort of desensitized us guys from being so tempted by a seeing a girl wearing pants?

Obviously, some pants are no-no’s for women desiring modesty. But pants in general, I’m used to it and it doesn’t bother me a bit, as long as they’re “normal” style pants.

Dresses on the other hand, I’ve been to Catholic high schools and have thought that the dresses/skirts were entirely inappropriate and borderline immodest. But maybe the problem was the girls wearing them or maybe it was just my problem.
 
In Colleen’s book, she sites a study from the 1970’s that found that men’s eyes followed the line of the pants. I think that in the 70’s pants were still relatively new for women, and men may have noticed and looked more. Today pants are the norm, and several posters have mentioned that they find skirts more eye catching because they are no longer the norm. Anybody ever see that Doris Day western? I think it was called “Windy City” perhaps. She bought a pair of denim jeans, and I remember being shocked at how very shocked and “pleasantly surprised” all the men who were oggling her were.

Regarding Catholic school skirts, yes they are immodest, especially since girls role them up to about a foot above the knee! I would be sorely tempted to mandate that the knee cannot be showing, because there is no school in our area that comes even close to enforcing the “three inches about the knee rule”
 
As a guy I can confess that although tight pants or jeans do very well to catch my attention, they don’t always actually spawn any lustful thoughts on their own.

There’s a spectrum of dress ‘modesty’. Personally I’m most susceptible to the the centre-right (between reasonably modest and moderately immodest) as I do find extremes unattractive in general.

I think the primary responsiblity falls on us (men) since it is our sexuality to which many women respond to (whether they like to admit it or not). Though these kinds of things are certainly easier said than done!
 
The problem with the attitude of the whole idea is that the goal seems to be to make oneself completely sexless, or at least to prevent any sexual attraction. That’s moronic, and probably a sin agains the body. Have fun barbecuing with the Cathars, guys, but Christians are allowed to have normal sexual feelings. Lust is inordinate sexual desire, not any sexual desire. Well, except in German…or do they use a different word for the sin?
 
Hastrman said:
The problem with the attitude of the whole idea is that the goal seems to be to make oneself completely sexless, or at least to prevent any sexual attraction. That’s moronic, and probably a sin agains the body. Have fun barbecuing with the Cathars, guys, but Christians are allowed to have normal sexual feelings. Lust is inordinate sexual desire, not any sexual desire. Well, except in German…or do they use a different word for the sin?
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I think that extreme views on modesty have done more to harm people’s attitude on dressing respectfully then anything else. There are Christians who believe that they have to wear the most baggy, ugly, clothes in order to be modest. This isn’t true.

Most people would consider clothing of the Victorian age to be very modest, but the women did not hide their feminity or shapes. A corset accentuates a woman’s curves and if you look at the dresses of the time period, they were tailored to fit a woman’s upper body.(I don’t want to go back to corsets, by the way)

I think that the saris that Indian women wear are very modest but feminine without being overly sexual.

I think that in the Western modern culture, we are all very confused as to where to draw our lines. There is a difference between being modest and being dumpy. You can be attractive and shapely without being very sexual.
 
deb1 said:
I think that extreme views on modesty have done more to harm people’s attitude on dressing respectfully then anything else. There are Christians who believe that they have to wear the most baggy, ugly, clothes in order to be modest. This isn’t true.

Most people would consider clothing of the Victorian age to be very modest, but the women did not hide their feminity or shapes. A corset accentuates a woman’s curves and if you look at the dresses of the time period, they were tailored to fit a woman’s upper body.(I don’t want to go back to corsets, by the way)

I think that the saris that Indian women wear are very modest but feminine without being overly sexual.

I think that in the Western modern culture, we are all very confused as to where to draw our lines. There is a difference between being modest and being dumpy. You can be attractive and shapely without being very sexual.
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Let’s not forget that we USA do live in a sex saturated media society. Or, as well just sitting at a coffee shop, I have seen women with low cut pants, and their panties/thongs showing, or mini skirts, as they cross their legs, and flirt, this has happened to me and some friends in different ways. Now, us men are visual, so then come the thought, then almost always comes later the masturbation.
 
I understand that mens wiring makes them aroused but why must you masturbate? Is that really someone elses fault that you would give into that temptation? A question to the men-
Must you have to masturbate because you were “aroused” in some way?
Do you really go straight home and lock yourself in a room and masturbate because you saw an attractive woman bend over hours earlier? If that is the case maybe you have a masturbation addiction. It is possible by the way.
 
fiat1122 said:
Let’s not forget that we USA do live in a sex saturated media society. Or, as well just sitting at a coffee shop, I have seen women with low cut pants, and their panties/thongs showing, or mini skirts, as they cross their legs, and flirt, this has happened to me and some friends in different ways. Now, us men are visual, so then come the thought, then almost always comes later the masturbation.
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I am not certain if you were using my post for a jumping off point, or that you are agreeing with me or if you are disagreeing with me.

I would agree that we as Christians should dress modestly. My point is that modesty does not automatically mean ugly or dowdy as some people think.

I might be wrong but you seem to be only seeing two extremes-the baggy type of modesty and the very sexual immodest dress.

We don’t have just these two choices available to us. We can be somewhere inbetween.
 
marybee said:
I understand that mens wiring makes them aroused but why must you masturbate? Is that really someone elses fault that you would give into that temptation? A question to the men-
Must you have to masturbate because you were “aroused” in some way?
Do you really go straight home and lock yourself in a room and masturbate because you saw an attractive woman bend over hours earlier? If that is the case maybe you have a masturbation addiction. It is possible by the way.
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Usually happens later that evening if I dwell on the woman bending down as you put it here. Yes we are wired that way, and the masturbation releases the sexual tension, for many of us guys, it also relaxes us. I am not justifying it, but yes, when arroused, it often leads to masturbation.
 
Where are your families when you are doing this? I bet if you did not dwell on it your “sexual tension” would not be there to begin with.
 
Any of you ladies attend any rape/self defense courses? What do they tell you to wear?
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They didn’t address what to wear because rape is a crime of violence, an acting out of power and aggression, not sexual attraction. Many rape victims are elderly women and other women who are not considered sexually attractive.

Regarding dress in general: I think the list is off base (as a woman), except for the rule about not drawing attention to the buttocks by wearing pants with writing across the rear. A woman can dress modestly while wearing pants, jeans, shorts, skirts above the knee and sleeveless or short sleeved shirts. As a woman, I know when clothes cross the line from attractive yet modest to titillating.
 
Modesty has far less to do with the “what” you are wearing than the “who” that is wearing it. By this I don’t refer to physical characteristics, such as shape, build, color, etc. Rather, I am referring to how a person presents and carries themselves.

A person can be dressed in one of the aforementioned potato sacks and be extremely immodest, whereas a person who has been assaulted and stripped of all clothing (to humiliate them) may be innocent of even the smallest amount of immodesty.

This is why there is a large difference between the topless tribal woman and the topless Mardi Gras party-goer. This is why there is a large difference between the scantily clad woman at a nightclub and a scantily clad woman on her wedding night.

“What message am I proclaiming with my body?”

That is an important question that everyone, men and women, need to ask themselves. This extends far beyond sexual issues to all spheres of life. We have been made in the image of God - what are telling the world about who God is, about what it means to be human?
 
fiat1122 said:
Usually happens later that evening if I dwell on the woman bending down as you put it here. Yes we are wired that way, and the masturbation releases the sexual tension, for many of us guys, it also relaxes us. I am not justifying it, but yes, when arroused, it often leads to masturbation.
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Masturbation is only a temporary tension reliever. You may not be justifying it in the technical sense of the word, but it certainly doesn’t seem that you are accepting responsibility for your thoughts and actions, since you are referring to them using an impersonal “it”.

It will be hard to move beyond it if you don’t ever get around to saying “Often when I think in this way, I will then masturbate.” We guys often feel like the urge to masturbate is an impersonal force imposing its will on us but, clinical addictions aside, we have to realize that this is something we are choosing to do.
 
Little_Flower said:
In “Dressing With Dignity”, author Colleen Hammond outlines the following suggestions for modest attire that will help men see women without lusting after them. In genreal cloths should veil the woman’s form and not draw attention to it.
  1. Wear no pants, as it almost always causes men to lust.
  2. Keep arms covered to the elbows.
  3. Clothes should be loose enough that no lines from
    undergarments are visible.
  4. Skirts should be at least 2 inches below the knee, preferably 8
    inches below the knee.
  5. No slits in skirts ever.
  6. Nothing sheer.
  7. No bare backs, and no necklines more than two fingers widths
    below the pit of the throat.
  8. No writing on chest of back of pants.
  9. While she does not state this in her book, she does imply that
    women and men should never swim together, and that until the last few hundred years, it was never done except among the promiscuous. We women can discuss this ad infinitum, but we need to hear from you. Are slacks an occassion for sin for you? Is there such a thing as modest pants? She also advocates for skirts simply because they are more feminine and better reflect the way God made us, namely women and not men. Please let us hear from you guys!
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it is a team effort, adn there are men who make women lust too…i thnk anyone with moment to think about it can figure out how to dress modestly …
 
Little_Flower said:
In “Dressing With Dignity”, author Colleen Hammond outlines the following suggestions for modest attire that will help men see women without lusting after them. In genreal cloths should veil the woman’s form and not draw attention to it.
  1. Wear no pants, as it almost always causes men to lust.
  2. Keep arms covered to the elbows.
  3. Clothes should be loose enough that no lines from
    undergarments are visible.
  4. Skirts should be at least 2 inches below the knee, preferably 8
    inches below the knee.
  5. No slits in skirts ever.
  6. Nothing sheer.
  7. No bare backs, and no necklines more than two fingers widths
    below the pit of the throat.
  8. No writing on chest of back of pants.
  9. While she does not state this in her book, she does imply that
    women and men should never swim together, and that until the last few hundred years, it was never done except among the promiscuous. We women can discuss this ad infinitum, but we need to hear from you. Are slacks an occassion for sin for you? Is there such a thing as modest pants? She also advocates for skirts simply because they are more feminine and better reflect the way God made us, namely women and not men. Please let us hear from you guys!
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I think that can cause alot of men problems but there is also another hand full that understands self control. If you see womens biceps and feel tempted or there skin from there back and feel really tempted then maybe it is not the womens fault maybe its time to look within brother. Although I do think some things women wear these days are not a good idea because the younger generation gets an impression on some these women who dress scandly. Although it does take two a woman is in this equation we can not put it all on them. We need more self control. The bible is our best map in all problems i realised after many years of learning the hard way with things in life it even teach’s you of self control. So if you cant make women cover there elbows then definelty work on self control is in order cuz the wrists will be the womans error next if we need all these conditions to make it everyday.
 
marybee said:
Where are your families when you are doing this? I bet if you did not dwell on it your “sexual tension” would not be there to begin with.
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Where is not important, as there is always a way. For most, I guess in bed at night. Also, automatic erections when men are sleeping happens, then the urge then the act of masturbation.:o
 
fiat1122 said:
Where is not important, as there is always a way. For most, I guess in bed at night. Also, automatic erections when men are sleeping happens, then the urge then the act of masturbation.:o
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I have sympathy for you, but women have different types of temptation that are every bit as difficult. I don’t get aroused by dress in males but I really have a thing for big guys(six foot and over), or a sense of humor in a guy, or just plain, overall sweetness. These traits probably cause me to have as many problems controlling those stray lustful thoughts that pop into my head as men have with scantily clad women. But I just have to deal with my own temptations. I certainly can’t ask males to shorten themselves, or all change their personalities to stop me from lusting. 😛
 
deb1 said:
I have sympathy for you, but women have different types of temptation that are every bit as difficult. I don’t get aroused by dress in males but I really have a thing for big guys(six foot and over), or a sense of humor in a guy, or just plain, overall sweetness. These traits probably cause me to have as many problems controlling those stray lustful thoughts that pop into my head as men have with scantily clad women. But I just have to deal with my own temptations. I certainly can’t ask males to shorten themselves, or all change their personalities to stop me from lusting. 😛
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Comparing apples to oranges I think. A man’s size or personality is not really his choice, it’s who he is. A woman wearing a mini skirt or a halter top is her choice. Being attracted to a great personality regardless of whether we are male or female and then having to control lustful thoughts is very different than finding oneself lusting b/c someone isn’t covered or is covered in clothing that is so tight that it conceals nothing anyway. Yes, it’s still lust but when you like and care about the person it makes it a little different that simply lusting after an object. Not that lust in either situation is good, but what is leading to that lust is very different.
 
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