Want to come back to Catholicism but

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Sevenwaters

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Hi everyone,

I was born and raised a Catholic, and recieved Communion, Reconciliation and Confirmation. This past year my husband, daughter (15 months) and I have been going to a Presbyterian church. For several reasons I was frustrated with the Roman Catholic church.

Anyways, the Presbyterian Church I’ve been going to is full of so many nice people, and the Reverend is so nice too. I love it there. But there is a huge problem. I do not agree with one of the main elements of Calvinism: unconditional election. I can’t believe that God would decide from the start that some people will be saved and some won’t, before they’ve even been born. Didn’t Jesus come to offer salvation to all of mankind if they accept him as their Lord?

This had made me turn around and look back at the faith I grew up with. My sister, who I’m very close with (she’s 21 I’m 25) is a very strong Catholic. She is supporting me in coming back to the church. Although she supported me no matter what I did.

My only problem is that I really don’t want to hurt the feelings of the Reverend at my Presbyterian church. He is so nice and really welcomed my family with open arms. We’re going to be moving in about six months so should I just keep going to his church until then to avoid hurting his feelings?

I want to take things slowly with coming back to the Catholic church… any suggestions?
 
How about easing yourself and your family back into the Church by first going to confession and then attending Mass on Saturday evenings and your other church on Sundays until you move (without receiving communion in the Presbyterian parish, that is). When you move you can find a Catholic parish where you’ll be living and be able to say good bye to your Presbyterian one with gratitude for them being there when you needed them.

I know there will be others who will say to make a clean break, but it might be easier for your husband and children to transistion more slowly, as long as you no longer receive communion in the Presbyterian church. You don’t want your family resenting the Catholic Church and there is nothing wrong with attending the Presbyterian one on Sundays as long as you fulfill your obligation by going to the Catholic one on Saturday evenings. You should also set up an appointment with the priest of the parish to explain you situation so he can help you make the move easier for you. God bless you and your family. 🙂
 
Have you talked to your husband about this and about coming back to the church , does he want to aswell ? Yes I would attend your church untill you move but maybe attend a few masses as a family aswell maybe on a few Sundays or a Saturday evening ?
If you have any questions about anything me or anyone on this fourm is happy to help 🙂
 
From Jimmy Akin:

Unconditional election

The doctrine of unconditional election means God does not base his choice (election) of certain individuals on anything other than his own good will [13]. God chooses whomever he pleases and passes over the rest. The ones God chooses will desire to come to him, will accept his offer of salvation, and will do so precisely because he has chosen them.

To show that God positively chooses, rather than merely foresees, those who will come to him, Calvinists cite passages such as Romans 9:15-18, which says, “[The Lord] says to Moses, ‘I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.’ So it depends not upon man’s will or exertion, but upon God’s mercy… So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills [14].”
**
What would a Catholic say about this? He certainly is free to disagree with the Calvinist interpretation, but he also is free to agree**. All Thomists and even some Molinists (such as Robert Bellarmine and Francisco Suarez) taught unconditional election.

Thomas Aquinas wrote, “God wills to manifest his goodness in men: in respect to those whom he predestines, by means of his mercy, in sparing them; and in respect of others, whom he reprobates, by means of his justice, in punishing them. This is the reason why God elects some and rejects others… Yet why he chooses some for glory and reprobates others has no reason except the divine will. Hence Augustine says, ‘Why he draws one, and another he draws not, seek not to judge, if thou dost not wish to err.’” [15]

Although a Catholic may agree with unconditional election, he may not affirm “double-predestination,” a doctrine Calvinists often infer from it. This teaching claims that in addition to electing some people to salvation God also sends others to damnation.

The alternative to double-predestination is to say that while God predestines some people, he simply passes over the remainder. They will not come to God, but it is because of their inherent sin, not because God damns them. This is the doctrine of passive reprobation, which Aquinas taught [16].

The Council of Trent stated, “If anyone says that it is not in the power of man to make his ways evil, but that God produces the evil as well as the good works, not only by permission, but also properly and of himself, so that the betrayal of Judas is no less his own proper work than the vocation of Paul, let him be anathema… If anyone shall say that the grace of justification is attained by those only who are predestined unto life, but that all others, who are called, are called indeed, but do not receive grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil, let him be anathema.” [17]
  1. The Arminians, one will recall, said God bases it on his knowledge of what individuals will do in the future.
  2. Catholics understand this hardening in terms of Romans 1:20-32, where Paul repeatedly states God gave pagans up to their sinful desires after they refused to acknowledge him. See also James 1:13.
  3. ST I:23:5, citing Augustine, Homilies on the Gospel of John 26:2.
  4. ST 1:23:3.
  5. Decree on Justification, canons 6 and 17. The same points were taught by the second Council of Orange (531), the Council of Quiersy (853), and the third Council of Valencia (855), although none of these were ecumenical councils.
 
Welcome! You must go where you find the truth that you are seeking. If not, then you are in effect, rejecting the fulness of truth and settling for some degree of error. Now, this is a horrible comparison, but Jehovah’s Witnesses are also uniformly nice, welcoming people. You would not go there, or feel bad in leaving, right?

As well, Presbyterian (Calvinist) pastors are used to congregants leaving - as they were “not of the elect.” You are wise to recognize that God does not create only to punish or destroy. And, you also recognize that you need to conform your will to that of the Lord - a task that each of us faces for our entire lives.

First, since you are called back to the faith of your youth, I would suggest that you obtain a copy of Catholicism for Dummies. This is an excellent, easily read and understood book that explains, in plain English, the beliefs and practices of the Church, as well as the reasons for those beliefs.
 
Sevenwaters said:
Hi everyone,

I was born and raised a Catholic, and recieved Communion, Reconciliation and Confirmation. This past year my husband, daughter (15 months) and I have been going to a Presbyterian church. For several reasons I was frustrated with the Roman Catholic church.

Anyways, the Presbyterian Church I’ve been going to is full of so many nice people, and the Reverend is so nice too. I love it there. But there is a huge problem. I do not agree with one of the main elements of Calvinism: unconditional election. I can’t believe that God would decide from the start that some people will be saved and some won’t, before they’ve even been born. Didn’t Jesus come to offer salvation to all of mankind if they accept him as their Lord?

This had made me turn around and look back at the faith I grew up with. My sister, who I’m very close with (she’s 21 I’m 25) is a very strong Catholic. She is supporting me in coming back to the church. Although she supported me no matter what I did.

My only problem is that I really don’t want to hurt the feelings of the Reverend at my Presbyterian church. He is so nice and really welcomed my family with open arms. We’re going to be moving in about six months so should I just keep going to his church until then to avoid hurting his feelings?

I want to take things slowly with coming back to the Catholic church… any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Our Protestant brethren are honored as Christians and brothers in Christ 🙂 They are not supposed to be evil people, and the reason for you to return to full communion with the Church must definitely not be the fact that they are not nice, just as the fact that they are nice is no reason to walk away from the Church.

The Catholic Church is a great mystery and a great sacrament. It is the ark that contains the Sacred Tradition and the fullness of the Sacraments. It is the scroll that preserves the Sacred Scripture. Most or all of the above have been distorted or removed by the authors doctrines that have caused entire communities to be separated from the Church.

There was a time, not too long ago, when the Church had the universal authority to point out when a doctrine was contrary to or had distorted the teachings of Christ. Unfortunately, this authority has been put into question in the past few centuries. The Church understands this. However, the Church does call everyone to the will of God, that is, to the universal call of all Christians to unite in one flock with one shepherd. This is to be in full communion with the Church.

The Church still holds the fullness of the Sacraments, above all else:
  • Holy Orders, in which the apostolic succession is preserved
  • Reconciliation, in which Christ, through His ministers, restores in us sanctifying grace, merited for us by His sorrowful passion
  • the Holy Eucharist, in which Christ is made present, the Divine Bridegroom giving Himself up for His mystical Bride, “the two becoming one flesh”.
You should not feel bad, but, rather, feel joyful that Christ is calling you to full communion into the Catholic Church. I tell you that the pastor will understand and will not be hurt in the least bit by your decision: after all, you do not leave his community because they did something bad to you, but, rather, because you already belong to a community that loves you, and one that loves them as well and longs for them to return to full communion as well.

Remember that all are called to universal unity. This has been the belief of Christianity since the beginning: I believe in the Church, which is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. We greatly suffer at the fact that so many brothers in Christ are born in communities that at some point in history separated themselves from the Church, and we do not consider them neither schismatic nor heretic, since it was not their choice…we just wish God’s will be done and we finally became one Church again.

I found this article which may provide an interesting view.

Kind regards!
 
Sevenwaters said:
Hi everyone,

I was born and raised a Catholic, and recieved Communion, Reconciliation and Confirmation. This past year my husband, daughter (15 months) and I have been going to a Presbyterian church. For several reasons I was frustrated with the Roman Catholic church.

Anyways, the Presbyterian Church I’ve been going to is full of so many nice people, and the Reverend is so nice too. I love it there. But there is a huge problem. I do not agree with one of the main elements of Calvinism: unconditional election. I can’t believe that God would decide from the start that some people will be saved and some won’t, before they’ve even been born. Didn’t Jesus come to offer salvation to all of mankind if they accept him as their Lord?

This had made me turn around and look back at the faith I grew up with. My sister, who I’m very close with (she’s 21 I’m 25) is a very strong Catholic. She is supporting me in coming back to the church. Although she supported me no matter what I did.

My only problem is that I really don’t want to hurt the feelings of the Reverend at my Presbyterian church. He is so nice and really welcomed my family with open arms. We’re going to be moving in about six months so should I just keep going to his church until then to avoid hurting his feelings?

I want to take things slowly with coming back to the Catholic church… any suggestions?
Click to expand...
If you study the teachings of Dr. Scott Hahn, it might help as he graduated from one of the most prestigious schools in Reformed Theology. He is thoroughly able to debunk the Calvinist position as well as other Catholic apologists.

scotthahn.com/catholic-theological-resources.html
Scott received his Bachelor of Arts degree with a triple-major in Theology, Philosophy and Economics from Grove City College, Pennsylvania, in 1979, his Masters of Divinity from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in 1982, and his Ph.D. in Biblical Theology from Marquette University in 1995. Scott has ten years of youth and pastoral ministry experience in Protestant congregations (in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Massachusetts, Kansas and Virginia) and is a former Professor of Theology at Chesapeake Theological Seminary. He was ordained in 1982 at Trinity Presbyterian Church in Fairfax, Virginia. He entered the Catholic Church at the Easter Vigil, 1986.
 
It is going to be much harder to take I slowly I can tell you from personal experice of
Attending a non denominational church for seven years and returning to the catholic church.

Jump all in and never look back.

I suggest finding a bible study at the catholic church and goIng to weekly mass.
 
Sevenwaters said:
For several reasons I was frustrated with the Roman Catholic church.
Click to expand...
This is a great place to bring your issues. Start a thread, and let’s be off!
Sevenwaters said:
I want to take things slowly with coming back to the Catholic church… any suggestions?
Click to expand...
This is really a matter of following the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Clearly He guided you to where you are now, and clearly He has allowed this heretical doctrine to stick in your craw so that you would turn around. Pray about this daily, and follow His guidance.

I would also suggest you start attending RCIA or other adult formation in your parish, such as a bible study or a prayer group. It sounds like you are really in need of social support and affirmation right now.

Most people that leave the Church do so in ignorance or rebellion (against moral teachings). Whatever your “frustrations”, they need to be resolved. Many of us left because we only had a child’s level of knowledge for our faith, and were seduced by communities that appealed to our emotions.
 
Would anyone be able to tell me plainly whether or not Catholics believe that some people are predestined to go to hell and others Heaven? I can’t wrap my mind around that… didn’t Jesus die for ALL our sins? I can’t imagine going to a church that believes in predestination… thanks!
 
Sevenwaters said:
Would anyone be able to tell me plainly whether or not Catholics believe that some people are predestined to go to hell and others Heaven? I can’t wrap my mind around that… didn’t Jesus die for ALL our sins? I can’t imagine going to a church that believes in predestination… thanks!
Click to expand...
I have never heard any Catholic teaching that states that some people will be saved, no matter what. I have also never heard any Catholic teaching that states that some people cannot be saved, no matter what. If there IS such a teaching, I have never heard of it.

Also, if you are going to return to the Catholic Church, you should address the reasons why you left in the first place. Were your reasons Dogmatic? Did you have a personal falling out with someone in the Church? (Priest, Deacon?) If your reasons are too personal, they certainly aren’t required to be discussed here if you don’t want to. However, I hope that whatever made you leave in the first place has been resolved to your satisfaction. :hug3:
 
No the church does not believe in a Calvinistic predestination salvation thing like baptists,reforms ,Presbyterian church’s do so insted of saying we’re saved the church thinks that salvation is a on going process through your faith journey life
 
Sevenwaters said:
Would anyone be able to tell me plainly whether or not Catholics believe that some people are predestined to go to hell and others Heaven? I can’t wrap my mind around that… didn’t Jesus die for ALL our sins? I can’t imagine going to a church that believes in predestination… thanks!
Click to expand...
That is far from Catholic teaching. We hope in and pray for the mercy of God for the most wretched among us and believe that anyone can be saved. Predestination is simply not Catholic teaching.
 
Ecoclimber said:
If you study the teachings of Dr. Scott Hahn, it might help as he graduated from one of the most prestigious schools in Reformed Theology. He is thoroughly able to debunk the Calvinist position as well as other Catholic apologists.

scotthahn.com/catholic-theological-resources.html
Scott received his Bachelor of Arts degree with a triple-major in Theology, Philosophy and Economics from Grove City College, Pennsylvania, in 1979, his Masters of Divinity from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in 1982, and his Ph.D. in Biblical Theology from Marquette University in 1995. Scott has ten years of youth and pastoral ministry experience in Protestant congregations (in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Massachusetts, Kansas and Virginia) and is a former Professor of Theology at Chesapeake Theological Seminary. He was ordained in 1982 at Trinity Presbyterian Church in Fairfax, Virginia. He entered the Catholic Church at the Easter Vigil, 1986.
Click to expand...
Good recommendation. Dr. Hahn was indeed a Presbyterian. Now he is a world class Catholic apologist and a brilliant biblical commentator for the Ignatius RSV CE 2.
 
Sevenwaters said:
Hi everyone,

I was born and raised a Catholic, and recieved Communion, Reconciliation and Confirmation. This past year my husband, daughter (15 months) and I have been going to a Presbyterian church. For several reasons I was frustrated with the Roman Catholic church.

I want to take things slowly with coming back to the Catholic church… any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Have you addressed the above underlined?
 
Sevenwaters,

I had a falling out with the Catholic Church when I was close to your age. I may be able to help you, and understand where you are coming from.

Are there any particular things besides predestination you are curious about? I have over 600 books that I can quickly do searches on through the software “Verbum” I bought recently. I would be happy to send information that would be helpful to you, or find scripture that would be pertenant.

My mistake long ago was judging the Catholic faith by the people that are in it. I highly recommend a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Faith.

Lighthouse Catholic Media puts out CD’s (and mp3’s) that were very helpful to me. I highly recommend “The Bible Made Me Do It” by Tim Staples. The CD’s are nice since you can learn while you drive.

Good luck and God bless with your search for answers,

Dave
 
Sevenwaters said:
Hi everyone,

I was born and raised a Catholic, and recieved Communion, Reconciliation and Confirmation. This past year my husband, daughter (15 months) and I have been going to a Presbyterian church. For several reasons I was frustrated with the Roman Catholic church.
Click to expand...
Why?
S:
Anyways, the Presbyterian Church I’ve been going to is full of so many nice people, and the Reverend is so nice too. I love it there.
Click to expand...
did you try any other parish before leaving?
S:
But there is a huge problem. I do not agree with one of the main elements of Calvinism: unconditional election. I can’t believe that God would decide from the start that some people will be saved and some won’t, before they’ve even been born. *Didn’t Jesus come to offer salvation to all of mankind if they accept him as their Lord? *
Click to expand...
in scripture Jesus promises to build and sustain HIS Church that He builds on Peter and the apostles. Leaving HIS Church and the sacraments, joining the presbyterians, I would suggest , is the the huge problem.
S:
My only problem is that I really don’t want to hurt the feelings of the Reverend at my Presbyterian church.

He is so nice and really welcomed my family with open arms.
Click to expand...
did you know division from Our Lord’s Church is condemned by scripture, [Rom 16:17-21] & [Gal 5:19-21]. Yeah that goes for all the 16th century protestant revolt from the Church of Rome too. Be sure and look up those passages. There’s no expiration date on those condemnations.

are you familiar with the following teaching “outside the Church there is no salvation”

(all emphasis mine) From the Catechism
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

As one can see, going to the presbyterians or any protestant group from the Catholic Church, is leaving the Church and the Eucharist, and it puts one’s soul in huge danger. Think about it, when many left Our Lord over His teaching on the Eucharist, [Jn 6:66] what did Jesus say was going to happen?
S:
We’re going to be moving in about six months so *should I just keep going to his church until then to avoid hurting his feelings? *

I want to take things slowly with coming back to the Catholic church… any suggestions?
Click to expand...
As a suggestion, Catechize yourself and and your family. Know the faith.

As Peter taught, knowledge is #2 on his list… And one must add to it, as all the points he mentions, in ever increasing amounts.

2 Pet 1:5 make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers, *be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For **if ***you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Notice the 2 sentences that start with if? Those are conditional statements. IOW, one must do those things or the promises won’t happen. IOW If one doesn’t do these things Peter mentions, in increasing amounts, Peter says they will fall, sure as shootin, and if that happens, they won’t receive a rich welcome into the kingdom of Our Lord. Now THAT’s huge.

*Following up on what Peter said, Ignorance of the faith (lack of knowledge) as are actions we do, are not always innocent. *CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1791
Sevenwaters said:
Would anyone be able to tell me plainly whether or not Catholics believe that some people are predestined to go to hell and others Heaven? I can’t wrap my mind around that… didn’t Jesus die for ALL our sins? I can’t imagine going to a church that believes in predestination… thanks!
Click to expand...
Double predestination is a heresy
CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1037
 
Sevenwaters said:
Hi everyone,

I was born and raised a Catholic, and recieved Communion, Reconciliation and Confirmation. This past year my husband, daughter (15 months) and I have been going to a Presbyterian church. For several reasons I was frustrated with the Roman Catholic church.

Anyways, the Presbyterian Church I’ve been going to is full of so many nice people, and the Reverend is so nice too. I love it there. But there is a huge problem. I do not agree with one of the main elements of Calvinism: unconditional election. I can’t believe that God would decide from the start that some people will be saved and some won’t, before they’ve even been born. Didn’t Jesus come to offer salvation to all of mankind if they accept him as their Lord?

This had made me turn around and look back at the faith I grew up with. My sister, who I’m very close with (she’s 21 I’m 25) is a very strong Catholic. She is supporting me in coming back to the church. Although she supported me no matter what I did.

My only problem is that I really don’t want to hurt the feelings of the Reverend at my Presbyterian church. He is so nice and really welcomed my family with open arms. We’re going to be moving in about six months so should I just keep going to his church until then to avoid hurting his feelings?

I want to take things slowly with coming back to the Catholic church… any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Catechize yourself and and your family. Know the faith.

As Peter taught, knowledge is #2 on his list… And one must add to it, as all the points he mentions, in ever increasing amounts.

2 Pet 1:5 make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers, *be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For ****if ***you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

*Notice the 2 sentences that start with if? Those are conditional statements. IOW, one must do those things or the promises which are conditioned on doing them, won’t happen. IOW If one doesn’t do these things Peter mentions, in increasing amounts, Peter says they will fall, sure as shootin, and if that happens, they won’t receive a rich welcome into the kingdom of Our Lord. *

as an aside
*Ignorance of the faith is not always innocent. *CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1791
Sevenwaters said:
predestined to go to hell and others Heaven? I can’t wrap my mind around that… didn’t Jesus die for ALL our sins? I can’t imagine going to a church that believes in predestination… thanks!
Click to expand...
That’s Double predestination which is a heresy
CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1037
 
God wills that everyone be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 2:4

The double-predestination of Calvinism has a far more miserly view of God’s mercy, appropriate for a French lawyer’s personal opinion, perhaps, but it doesn’t square with Scripture or historic Christianity for a millennium and a half before said French lawyer was born. (John or Jean Calvin was a French lawyer–and his legal view of things flavors his writings strongly. His view of God as ruthless judge does not square with the Father of the Prodigal, eager to confer calf, robe, and ring and restore the wicked son to the dignity of full sonship.)
 
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