Want to join the Knights of Columbus, but not sure if this will be an issue?

[JimG]

Perhaps she grew up with a great deal of anti-Catholic propaganda drilled into her, or has recently encountered such beliefs. Such an upbringing is often quite hard to overcome.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

Perhaps she grew up with a great deal of anti-Catholic propaganda drilled into her, or has recently encountered such beliefs. Such an upbringing is often quite hard to overcome.

There is that too, yes. The majority of her family at one time was all Catholic, but over the years they have all left the Catholic church. Only her mom, who converted when she married my wife’s dad, still attends Catholic church with me.

When she came back to Christ she did so in a First Baptist church, then a non-Denominational church that leans heavily towards Pentecostalism. The pastor of the non-Denom church was at one time Catholic himself and was in Catholic seminary when he decided to leave the seminary and the Catholic church claiming it to be false.

I used to attend that church with my wife, but had issues with the pastor and his teaching. Many times he spoke against the Catholic church. I had gotten my wife out of there, but she still holds to his teachings on many things. She does still go there from time-to-time,.3v3n though I have expressed my concerns over her going.

I always get the same response to those concerns, pray about it and if I am wrong for going there, the Holy Spirit will convict me, but so far he hasn’t convicted me. So you should leave it in God’s hands.

That is her response, those two sentences.

 

[Xantippe]

I would personally not be in a rush to convalidate this marriage, as your wife sounds really controlling. I know you feel very strongly that you are bound to her already, but one of the reason the Church is so bureaucratic about marriage is to prevent people from getting into messes, and this definitely sounds like a mess. I think your wife may well improve over the next 2-3 years as the initial weirdness of new motherhood subsides, but if it doesn’t, you have to ask what kind of home you are making for your daughter.

In the interim, whenever you have a major disagreement, I would encourage you to make an appointment with your wife’s pastor for mediation for the two of you for specific controversial issues (this wouldn’t be paid counseling, but just settling disputes, which is the basic bread and butter of being a pastor). I think that if you do this, you will “win” at least 50% of the time on non-religious issues, which is probably way better than you are doing now. What you have going for you there is 1) the pastor is a man and undoubtedly a husband and 2) there’s a lot of focus on male headship in much of the Protestant world that your wife belongs to.

Best wishes!

 

[lonegreywolf20]

I would personally not be in a rush to convalidate this marriage, as your wife sounds really controlling. I know you feel very strongly that you are bound to her already, but one of the reason the Church is so bureaucratic about marriage is to prevent people from getting into messes, and this definitely sounds like a mess. I think your wife may well improve over the next 2-3 years as the initial weirdness of new motherhood subsides, but if it doesn’t, you have to ask what kind of home you are making for your daughter.

In the interim, whenever you have a major disagreement, I would encourage you to make an appointment with your wife’s pastor for mediation for the two of you for specific controversial issues (this wouldn’t be paid counseling, but just settling disputes, which is the basic bread and butter of being a pastor). I think that if you do this, you will “win” at least 50% of the time on non-religious issues, which is probably way better than you are doing now. What you have going for you there is 1) the pastor is a man and undoubtedly a husband and 2) there’s a lot of focus on male headship in much of the Protestant world that your wife belongs to.

Best wishes!

I can tell you that she hasn’t been to church in a while because of her health. She cannot get there because many times she doesn’t trust her body enough for the day, and I am under orders not to drive by my doctor for at least the next month.

She, as of right, now doesn’t have a church home. When I have mentioned to her about her going to church, she has told me that she doesn’t need church to commune with God. I think the last time that she went was in November or early December.

So I have no pastor to go to, and I will not go to the one that I mentioned. He is not as concerned about our marriage as he is about getting her to come back to his church, and the doctrine he teaches is a dangerous one and one that is anti-Catholic.

" *I think your wife may well improve over the next 2-3 years as the initial weirdness of new motherhood subsides, but if it doesn’t, you have to ask what kind of home you are making for your daughter. *"

Can you clarify this statement? It almost seems that you would be advocating for divorce.

I also do want to clear something up. I am no angel in our marriage, there have been times where I have been controlling, vindictive, and I do have an anger problem. I am however going to individual counseling to try and help me. I also have major depression and am being treated for it with an anti-depressant.

Last week, my MIL made the comment that she has seen an improvement in me. Since she lives with us currently (she does not drive) she has seen our fights. She has told me that during our fights I am much calmer, and do not get as angry as I once did. I cool down much quicker after the initial point of anger. I think what is happening is that I am realizing that my anger is heading towards sin, and I am quick to correct and stay calm.

 

[Brendan]

Ask them. I would also ask your priest.

More specifically, ask your pastor. What is OK with the Church is Ok with the Knights.

lonegreywolf20:

I have been doing some praying and I do not believe that God wants me to go the route of radical sanation. I get the feeling that he wants me to have patience and to rely on him to work this out.

Radical Saniation is simply a recognition on the part of the bishop that the vows you took are valid.

Since I presume that your wife would accept, even desire that others accept your marriage as being valid, why would there be any objection?

 

[Pax2u]

I still am confused by something…OP, you state you are your wife’s caretaker due to her disability. If that is the case, who does she think/know will care for her if your marriage breaks up?

The behaviors you describe don’t make a lot of sense for someone who is dependent upon the care of another. Seems like she would not be giving you grief that might lead to a marital breakup if she is dependent on your care.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

Radical Saniation is simply a recognition on the part of the bishop that the vows you took are valid.

Since I presume that your wife would accept, even desire that others accept your marriage as being valid, why would there be any objection?

I understand that, but my wife sees it as a rule of the church that she would be following and since we have been married for four years in two days, she sees no reason as to why we have to do that.

 

[pensmama87]

I still am confused by something…OP, you state you are your wife’s caretaker due to her disability. If that is the case, who does she think/know will care for her if your marriage breaks up?

**The behaviors you describe don’t make a lot of sense for someone who is dependent upon the care of another. ** Seems like she would not be giving you grief that might lead to a marital breakup if she is dependent on your care.

Except when the person has a strong belief that the person they are inflicting these behaviors on will never, ever leave. Based on what the OP has posted, I think his wife is probably right.

lonegreywolf, I’m sorry that your marriage is so troubled. I’ve been reading your posts and the word “codependent” keeps popping into my head (I struggle with codependency myself). It is good to regard marriage so highly, to value the vows that you made. But it strikes me that you’re enabling some pretty lousy behavior on your wife’s part. Having values and sticking to them does not mean permitting others to walk all over us. I would think about naming and sticking to some boundaries in your relationship. There have been some great suggestions for this on the thread. If your wife refuses to abide by them, then for your child’s sake you may have to leave.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

I still am confused by something…OP, you state you are your wife’s caretaker due to her disability. If that is the case, who does she think/know will care for her if your marriage breaks up?

The behaviors you describe don’t make a lot of sense for someone who is dependent upon the care of another. Seems like she would not be giving you grief that might lead to a marital breakup if she is dependent on your care.

Oh trust me, it puzzles me, her mom, and my parents as well.

She will not be able to take care of herself or our daughter if there is a marital break-up.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

That is not going to happen and you probably are right, she knows that I will never leave. I made a vow to stay with her through sickness and in health. I will uphold my end of that vow. I made a covenant before God to stick with my wife. I am doing just that.

Leaving isn’t an option I will ever entertain.

At my last counseling session, my counselor asked what I am hoping for in my marriage. I answered that it will get better (my counselor as seen my wife’s attitude when my wife was with me for a session). She answered with has anything changed for the better even though you have made some changes, I answered no. So her response was to tell me that I need to let the hope things will get better go as it’s weighing heavily on me. That if I do that, I will probably feel a whole lot better and will be able to deal with the bad things in my marriage better as well.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

I have a suspicion about what my wife’s true feelings are. She wants a big wedding. Something we didn’t do when we were married in 2010. She wants the reception, she wants to invite family and friends.

We just do not have the money for that and won’t for several years.

 

[Xantippe]

“She, as of right, now doesn’t have a church home. When I have mentioned to her about her going to church, she has told me that she doesn’t need church to commune with God. I think the last time that she went was in November or early December.”

!!!

Isn’t it convenient for your wife that God tells her stuff directly and when other people are getting different messages, she can just move on? Note that the two of you are in very different situations. You, on the one hand, are Catholic and you have to deal with the Church, one way or another. Your wife, on the other hand, is the head of her personal church, she has a direct line to God, and she’s never wrong about religion.

" I think your wife may well improve over the next 2-3 years as the initial weirdness of new motherhood subsides, but if it doesn’t, you have to ask what kind of home you are making for your daughter. "

‘Can you clarify this statement? It almost seems that you would be advocating for divorce.’

If your home is full of conflict, if your wife is controlling and treats you without respect, if you are not allowed appropriate (name removed by moderator)ut into major family decisions, if your wife does not allow you to fully practice your religion and if your wife’s untreated depression is harming your daughter, legal separation or divorce are options.

Marriage is not a suicide pact and we cannot stand by and allow our children to be harmed, even by a spouse.

“I also do want to clear something up. I am no angel in our marriage, there have been times where I have been controlling, vindictive, and I do have an anger problem. I am however going to individual counseling to try and help me. I also have major depression and am being treated for it with an anti-depressant.”

That’s good.

I’m reading your posts 1) as a woman and 2) a woman who has been married to the same guy for 15 years and 3) a woman who likes things my way and who has a temper (hence my screen name), and I think your wife is way out of line.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/xantippe

Just as a mental exercise, I’m imagining that my husband suddenly converted to Islam. If he told me that he needed to do some paperwork with his imam to get our marriage recognized under Islamic law, I would have absolutely no objection to him doing so, and I would take absolutely no offense. That would be the least of our troubles, and actually a rather sweet gesture on his part.

“Last week, my MIL made the comment that she has seen an improvement in me. Since she lives with us currently (she does not drive) she has seen our fights. She has told me that during our fights I am much calmer, and do not get as angry as I once did. I cool down much quicker after the initial point of anger. I think what is happening is that I am realizing that my anger is heading towards sin, and I am quick to correct and stay calm.”

It’s very good that you are able to exercise self-control.

“I have a suspicion about what my wife’s true feelings are. She wants a big wedding. Something we didn’t do when we were married in 2010. She wants the reception, she wants to invite family and friends. We just do not have the money for that and won’t for several years.”

How about a nice anniversary party? I think that’s not a bad goal for you guys to work toward, as soon as it’s feasible. A convalidation party might also be nice. (I’m not sure if that’s done.)

I totally understand your wife’s desire to have what she missed out on. When my husband and I got married, we had a tiny wedding, and I always hoped we’d eventually have a nice anniversary party in my home town, but it hasn’t happened yet. Maybe the 20th anniversary?

 

[lonegreywolf20]

How about a nice anniversary party? I think that’s not a bad goal for you guys to work toward, as soon as it’s feasible. A convalidation party might also be nice. (I’m not sure if that’s done.)

I totally understand your wife’s desire to have what she missed out on. When my husband and I got married, we had a tiny wedding, and I always hoped we’d eventually have a nice anniversary party in my home town, but it hasn’t happened yet. Maybe the 20th anniversary?

I will probably propose something like that. Maybe do it for our fifth anniversary, although according to a poster on here, your marriage starts the day of the convalidation. I might have read it wrong though.

 

[MJJean]

I have a suspicion about what my wife’s true feelings are. She wants a big wedding. Something we didn’t do when we were married in 2010. She wants the reception, she wants to invite family and friends.

We just do not have the money for that and won’t for several years.

Convalidations are usually very low key. Typically, the ceremony is held discreetly before or after Mass with just the required two witnesses or the witnesses and a few friends and family. Some couples have a reception of sorts afterward. Most commonly a lunch or dinner.

Remember, from the Catholic point of view you and your wife have been living together and committing the sin of fornication as you aren’t validly married. A convalidation isn’t a 2nd wedding or a do over. It’s a correction of an invalid marriage.

I was married by a Justice of the Peace in his office. For a couple years I was sometimes bummed that we didn’t have a big wedding. My husband took a half day off of work, I dropped the kids at my dads, we met at the courthouse, had the ceremony, picked up the kids and went home so I could fix dinner.

I was totally cured of wanting a wedding a few years later when I served as Matron of Honor at my best friends wedding. It was so stressful! 8 months of planning and coordinating, a bunch of details that went wrong on the big day, $15,000 (truly a small budget wedding, btw) spent on said day with a lot of us making everything we could and the women of the families catering the event, and a bride and groom so stressed and exhausted they slept through the first part of the honeymoon. After going through my friends wedding I would never do that to myself or anyone I actually like, lol.

I will probably propose something like that. Maybe do it for our fifth anniversary, although according to a poster on here, your marriage starts the day of the convalidation. I might have read it wrong though.

With Radical Sanation, your marriage is valid from the day the ceremony took place. With a convalidation your marriage is valid from the day of the convalidation ceremony.

A convalidation ceremony followed by an anniversary party might be enough to soften her up a bit

I applied for annulment in June. The local Tribunal says the process takes 12-18 months. If that is correct I’ll have my annulment (the priest can’t see a single reason my former marriage could be valid due to a long list of circumstances) about the time our 12 year anniversary rolls around. I’m hoping to have the convalidation on our anniversary that way we can celebrate our civil marriage and our Church marriage on the same day. Honestly, though, I really want to be received into the Church and my husband wants to be able to receive the sacraments again so I’d be open to convalidating as soon as possible once the annulment is done.

 

[lonegreywolf20]

Convalidations are usually very low key. Typically, the ceremony is held discreetly before or after Mass with just the required two witnesses or the witnesses and a few friends and family. Some couples have a reception of sorts afterward. Most commonly a lunch or dinner.

Remember, from the Catholic point of view you and your wife have been living together and committing the sin of fornication as you aren’t validly married. A convalidation isn’t a 2nd wedding or a do over. It’s a correction of an invalid marriage.

I was married by a Justice of the Peace in his office. For a couple years I was sometimes bummed that we didn’t have a big wedding. My husband took a half day off of work, I dropped the kids at my dads, we met at the courthouse, had the ceremony, picked up the kids and went home so I could fix dinner.

I was totally cured of wanting a wedding a few years later when I served as Matron of Honor at my best friends wedding. It was so stressful! 8 months of planning and coordinating, a bunch of details that went wrong on the big day, $15,000 (truly a small budget wedding, btw) spent on said day with a lot of us making everything we could and the women of the families catering the event, and a bride and groom so stressed and exhausted they slept through the first part of the honeymoon. After going through my friends wedding I would never do that to myself or anyone I actually like, lol.

With Radical Sanation, your marriage is valid from the day the ceremony took place. With a convalidation your marriage is valid from the day of the convalidation ceremony.

A convalidation ceremony followed by an anniversary party might be enough to soften her up a bit

I applied for annulment in June. The local Tribunal says the process takes 12-18 months. If that is correct I’ll have my annulment (the priest can’t see a single reason my former marriage could be valid due to a long list of circumstances) about the time our 12 year anniversary rolls around. I’m hoping to have the convalidation on our anniversary that way we can celebrate our civil marriage and our Church marriage on the same day. Honestly, though, I really want to be received into the Church and my husband wants to be able to receive the sacraments again so I’d be open to convalidating as soon as possible once the annulment is done.

Thank you for the information.

I think I am just going to drop talking about any of it for a couple months. I want things to cool down first and as Xantippe has said, work out my marriage issues first so that we have a more solid marriage.

 

[phil19034]

Elizium, she isn’t my girlfriend. She is my wife, and that is according to my priest at my church.

Living as brother and sister would make matters worse in my home, not better. She would see that as a clear abandonment of our marriage and would likely drive her further away from me and any hope I may have of getting her to become Catholic.

Radical Sanation is most likely the best answer.

I had one.

As long as you have tried your best to convince her to “co-validate” your marriage in the Church (have a small Catholic wedding with just two witnesses), then you can have a Radical Sanation. It might take a few months of speaking with your parish priest.

When you priest understands your situation and knows that you are back to practicing that you have done everything possible (without hurting your marriage) then a Radical Sanation most likely will be possible.

Every Bishop has a different process for getting one, but it basically consists of a priest backing you up and providing a history of what happened. Why you didn’t receive a dispensation, what was going thru your head at the time, did you get married with the intent of marrying for life, etc. Some Dioceses require you to write a letter with this information, others do with a question/answer document.

If you have to write a letter or if you right the answers yourself, I would suggest having your priest look over your answers to make sure you provided the detail required.

ALSO, PLEASE NOTE: This is still kind of rare. So some priests might not know about it or how to properly do it. Regardless of the situation, the diocese will be involved and there is paperwork. The priest cannot simply say “ok, this is done - you can now receive the sacraments.” Also, typically, the Radical Sanation paperwork is typically different than the Dispensation paperwork (a parish most likely will not have the forms in the local parish office). I’m telling you this from experience

If you have any questions, please feel free to send me a private message so I see it.

Good luck and God Bless

 

[lonegreywolf20]

Radical Sanation is most likely the best answer.

I had one.

As long as you have tried your best to convince her to “co-validate” your marriage in the Church (have a small Catholic wedding with just two witnesses), then you can have a Radical Sanation. It might take a few months of speaking with your parish priest.

When you priest understands your situation and knows that you are back to practicing that you have done everything possible (without hurting your marriage) then a Radical Sanation most likely will be possible.

Every Bishop has a different process for getting one, but it basically consists of a priest backing you up and providing a history of what happened. Why you didn’t receive a dispensation, what was going thru your head at the time, did you get married with the intent of marrying for life, etc. Some Dioceses require you to write a letter with this information, others do with a question/answer document.

If you have to write a letter or if you right the answers yourself, I would suggest having your priest look over your answers to make sure you provided the detail required.

ALSO, PLEASE NOTE: This is still kind of rare. So some priests might not know about it or how to properly do it. Regardless of the situation, the diocese will be involved and there is paperwork. The priest cannot simply say “ok, this is done - you can now receive the sacraments.” Also, typically, the Radical Sanation paperwork is typically different than the Dispensation paperwork (a parish most likely will not have the forms in the local parish office). I’m telling you this from experience

If you have any questions, please feel free to send me a private message so I see it.

Good luck and God Bless

Phil, as I have stated, I will not do a radical sanation. With or without her knowledge.

To me it is betrayal of my wife’s trust. I understand that it’s no big deal, but it is to my wife and I will not betray her like that.

 

[YADA]

…I met my wife while I was away from the church for 25 years (I rebelled in my teens) and*** we were married by the local courthouse and two days later, a non-Denominational pastor.*** I have since returned to the church of my youth and am proud to call it home.

My wife is in support of me going back to the Catholic church, as well as joining the KoC, but she doesn’t believe that we need to have our marriage recognized by the Catholic church and sees it as pleasing man, as God is already pleased and blesses our marriage. So she is resistant to having the church recognize our marriage. …

So my question is why did you marry at the courthouse and then before a non-Denominational pastor two days later?

Were you not married for those 2 days?

It seems to me that you had your marriage ratified once … what would be the issue with getting you marriage blessed by the Church now … it many ways really is no different then the one you did two days after the initial marriage except in two ways - Minor - being the greater length of lag time and Major - and the Major one being the growth you have made in understanding the Sacramental God centered nature of your marriage.

One would think that your wife would rejoice in the latter …

Also - many couples renew their vows through the years - they find great comfort and growth in speaking their vows allowed before witnesses - and I hardly think God would find that abhorrent - God likes us to speak His promises out loud … As Bishop Fulton Sheen wrote its really “Three to Get Married” …

Perhaps you should get a copy of that book * - to read together with your wife … and approach this entire issue less from the - I need to get the Church’s stamp of approval - but more from the stand point of how much your love and respect for her has grown and how important it is for you to stand before your Lord and re-affirm that reality …

Good Luck*

 

[lonegreywolf20]

So my question is why did you marry at the courthouse and then before a non-Denominational pastor two days later?

Were you not married for those 2 days?

The pastor that she wanted to marry us would not do so until we went to the courthouse first and were married.

This all happened when she wasn’t so rigid on not “pleasing man.”

Maybe I will get the book in a couple of months, right now I have just begin reading “A Lasting Promise: A Christian Guide to Fighting for Your Marriage” as we also have communication issues which leads to too many fights and arguments.

Getting my marriage valid in the Catholic church is gonna have to wait till this more pressing matter is resolved.

 

[tbrud74]

You are married in the eyes of God just not the church which technically is the people. I am a member of the nights of Columbus who is divorced and almost remarried without an annulment. First off when you fill out the form 100 it asks if your married say yes. It does not ask if you are married in a church. The K of C is nothing more than insurance company that uses the volunteer hours of members to maintain tax exempt status. Your personal life is none of their business. A priest told me only I can decide if I am a practical catholic its all about your own conscience. As far as the K of C feel free to join they do not need to know your personal life or situation.