Wanted to convert - now I'm not so sure

[carol_marie]

Thanks to all who post with great answers. Sorry I seem so disgruntled - I have a hard time filtering out the “noise” as some have suggested. My prayer will remain the same as it’s been since I started reading the apologetic books…“Lead me Lord and I will follow You. If it’s Catholic You want me to be, Please Help me to find my way. In the name of my Dear Savior Jesus I pray.” Thanks to all who offer to pray on my behalf. I live in a far Northwest Suburb of Chicago - any good parish/elem school suggestions?

 

[1ke]

Carol Marie, As a convert (1992) may I offer some insight?

Judas betrayed Him, Peter denied Him, Paul killed his followers, James & John argued over a place of honor beside Him. Some who were not His followers tried to do wonders in His name. Some came to Him at night, such as Nicodemus, because they were afraid to stand firmly and be counted. Some went away sad because his teachings were difficult. Some liked his message but not its requirments. Some just plain didn’t get it… even after he explained it over and over…

Well, and that was just in 33 AD…

Then came the disagreements in doctrine and discipline (Acts 15:1)… Peter & Paul getting into a spat resulting in Paul calling Peter a hypocrite to his face… leaders/prominent members such as Euodia & Syntyche disagreeing publically and being reprimanded by a Bishop (Paul) (Phil 4:2-3)… and what about those cheaters Sapphira & Ananias (Acts 5:1) smote on the spot for their transgressions.

Of course, every letter Paul wrote was to members of the Church and he is admonishing them about their disunity, in-fighting, immoral behaviors, lack of faith, division, and every other thing under the sun. The Colossians, Ephesians, Phillipians, and especially those Corinthians… remember, he was writing to those within not outside the Church when he reprimands them for adultery, homosexuality, immodesty, fornication, and all those other sins…

So, the lesson of all this is… the Church is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic despite her members not because of her members.

The marks of the Church are:

One-- The Church is unified in doctrine under the infallible guarantee of the Holy Spirit and the Bishop of Rome. The unity of doctrine remains, despite disunity among the members.

Holy-- The holiness of the Church does not flow from her membership, but from her headship. The Church is holy because Christ is holy. The Church has many holy members, but mostly it is made up of ordinary (and extraoridnary) sinners. The Church is perfectly holy and that holiness perfects us if we allow it-- not the other way around-- through the grace of the Sacraments and the practice of virtue.

Catholic-- The Church is Catholic because the church is whole-- it contains the Truth in its fullness. There is no other place that you can find the full deposit of the faith and if you will be conformed to it, you will be transformed by it. Those you hold out as examples of “how not to be Catholic” have missed this point-- they refuse to conform to the Truth, therefore they cannot be transformed by it into the Saints they were meant to be. Don’t be one of them-- embrace the Truth!

Apostolic-- The Church is founded on the Apostlic Tradition, firmly tracing its authority back from today’s bishops to the first bishops. Not all Bishops are holy examples, learned individuals, good teachers, or particularly nice people-- however, what they lack individually is made up for corporately. They hold the authority, divinely given, and without them we have no Sacraments.

Don’t be troubled one bit by anything you have read here… Jesus asks each of us, “will you also leave”… and we must answer as Peter did, “Master, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life”.

Embrace the Catholic Faith because it is True, notbased on whether the people in the Church live out that Truth well or poorly. If you don’t think it’s true, then don’t embrace it-- but if you do, embrace it and never let go.

 

[MichelleTherese]

Imagine a tree. You have the long solid trunk and off of that trunk are many different branches. If you want to find the tree you have to search for the trunk because all those branches and leaves get in the way.
The Catholic Church is just like a tree with tons of branches. The REAL Catholic Church is the solid trunk that runs straight and true through the past 2,000 years. However, since the Church is filled with Man Kind and Man Kind is sinful, selfish, egotistical, and sometimes just plain stupid, there are lots of branches that grow from the trunk. Yet these branches do not change the trunk in any way: it’s still the same solid trunk. No matter how much nonsense, bickering, false teachings, stupidity, heresy, and sin you have branching off of the trunk, the trunk is still there and it’s still solid and true.

 The branches are the false things, the trunk is the true Church.  As you investigate the Catholic Faith you must always search for the trunk among the branches and leaves.  If you don't do this, you can get caught up in all of that confusion just like a sky-diver can get his parachute caught in the branches of a tree.  You dangle there, lost and confused and getting angrier by the minute.  "What's all this nonsense?  How can THIS be the One True Church?"
 If your parachute has gotten caught, cut yourself loose, push through all of the branches, and find the trunk.  How do you do this in real life?  Very simple: if anyone claims to be following the Teachings of the Catholic Faith and they are NOT loyal to Rome, they are branches.  Check everything against such solid trunk resources like the Catechism of the Catholic Church, websites like [www.Catholic.com](http://www.catholic.com/), the writings of the Popes, and best of all: the writings of the Early Church Fathers.  Catholic.com has good excerpts from their writings.  What does this do?  Well, if you take something that is being taught NOW and you compare it to what was taught THEN and it's still the same then you've found the trunk.
 Now be mindful, teachings have developed.  1900 years ago they may have said just one word and now we have an entire library of books written on the subject, complete with a huge glossery of terms.  That's ok.  Just make sure nothing has changed from apples to oranges.
Always always ask for help.  There are things you can't always figure out on your own!

 

[newby]

MichelleTherese:

Imagine a tree. You have the long solid trunk and off of that trunk are many different branches. If you want to find the tree you have to search for the trunk because all those branches and leaves get in the way.
The Catholic Church is just like a tree with tons of branches. The REAL Catholic Church is the solid trunk that runs straight and true through the past 2,000 years. However, since the Church is filled with Man Kind and Man Kind is sinful, selfish, egotistical, and sometimes just plain stupid, there are lots of branches that grow from the trunk. Yet these branches do not change the trunk in any way: it’s still the same solid trunk. No matter how much nonsense, bickering, false teachings, stupidity, heresy, and sin you have branching off of the trunk, the trunk is still there and it’s still solid and true.

The branches are the false things, the trunk is the true Church. As you investigate the Catholic Faith you must always search for the trunk among the branches and leaves. If you don’t do this, you can get caught up in all of that confusion just like a sky-diver can get his parachute caught in the branches of a tree. You dangle there, lost and confused and getting angrier by the minute. “What’s all this nonsense? How can THIS be the One True Church?”
If your parachute has gotten caught, cut yourself loose, push through all of the branches, and find the trunk. How do you do this in real life? Very simple: if anyone claims to be following the Teachings of the Catholic Faith and they are NOT loyal to Rome, they are branches. Check everything against such solid trunk resources like the Catechism of the Catholic Church, websites like www.Catholic.com, the writings of the Popes, and best of all: the writings of the Early Church Fathers. Catholic.com has good excerpts from their writings. What does this do? Well, if you take something that is being taught NOW and you compare it to what was taught THEN and it’s still the same then you’ve found the trunk.
Now be mindful, teachings have developed. 1900 years ago they may have said just one word and now we have an entire library of books written on the subject, complete with a huge glossery of terms. That’s ok. Just make sure nothing has changed from apples to oranges.
Always always ask for help. There are things you can’t always figure out on your own!

What a wonderful way to explain our true Church…God Bless you and your reply. It is very helpful in understanding this topic!

 

[cmom]

you don"t pick a church because you like the people< you pick it because its true

 

[twf]

Hi Carol. I’m a convert as well. Actually, I’m not yet confirmed, but I am firmly convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus established, and upholds to this day. We are fallen humans, you will NEVER find a church without sin. What 1Ke said is very good. Read it carefully. There was problem after problem in the 1st century church, yet no one can deny that it was the ‘one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church’ that Jesus left us. Christ himself said:
47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 which, when it was filled, they drew up on the beach; and they sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but the bad they cast away.
49 So shall it be in the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the righteous,
50 and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
(From Matthew 13)
And we are warned many times that there will be false teachers and deceivers in the Church (in regards to ‘wacky’ priests). (See for example 2 Peter 2). Read Christ’s seven letters at the beginning of Revelation. These are 7 dioceses of the true Church, and yet Christ found fault with all of them, even though they were established during the time of the apostles! And if you read Jude, the impression I get is that thisThe Spirit will ensure that true teaching is faithfully maintained, but that doesn’t mean that everyone has to listen.

The Catholic Church is indeed the Church we find in Scripture. Trust in the Lord, and He will guide you to where you need to be. It will not be a perfect parish, but we all have a responsibility to edify our own parish, and with God, even the most liberal parish can be revived.

 

[Peg]

Carol Marie,

I am a cradle catholic who has gone to the same church for 36 years now. I have been through some less than desirable priests but, I go to church to worship God. Priests come and go. The reason I do not go to any of the other parishes around is because of Perpetual Adoration. I just go to Adoration and talk to God about the issues and pray for good and faithful priests.

 

[Lamb]

carol marie:

After reading several Catholic apologetic type books (Born Fundementalist, born again Catholic & Suprised By the Truth I,II, III - My Life on the Rock - etc.) I started to believe that I had been wrong about the the Catholic Church - it wasn’t just a bunch of made up nonesense without any scriptural support, but rather it was a faith rooted in scripture. I began to believe that maybe it was the one true church that Jesus started and that Luther was wrong to break away because surely God isn’t pleased with all the disunity and thousands of different denomenations. I wanted to belong to the one, unified true Church and until I found this website, I thought the Catholic Church was it. Now I’m thinking that the Catholic church is filled with the same disunity as the Protestant churches. I’ve read Catholics who think speaking in tounges is OK vs. Catholics who don’t. Catholics who think the Pope isn’t the Pope - Catholics who think the mass should be in Latin - that Vat. II was a huge mistake vs. Catholics who think it was great. Catholics who believe in Adam & Eve, Catholics who believe in evolution, I read of terrible RICA classes, Wacky Priests who teach their own ideas, Pro choice Catholics (I always thought THAT was an oxymoron but apparently not) Hindus doing their Hindu thing in Catholic churches and now today I look at a weblink from this site where I read that 40,000 pieces of child pornograpy are found on computers at a seminary in Vienna and the Bishop calls it a “childish prank.” So I gotta tell ya, I’m begininging to rethink this whole Catholic thing. I think that the “one Holy & Apolstolic church” that my soul longed for does not exist because with all due respect, from where I sit, you aren’t looking so Holy and you certainly aren’t “one.”

 

[elgom]

For over 2,000 years this church that Jesus founded has been full of sinners. Remember he ate with sinners. We have had bad popes and scoundrels all along. A mark of the Church in fact is that it is filled with Saints and Sinners. Judas was at the last supper and betrayed our Lord. But what makes us the Church is that it is not human it is divine in origin. Do you really think a Church like this could exist for over 2,000 years without God being in control…

Jesus said that The gates of hell shall not prevail against it. But the gates of hell keep trying. Whenever there is confusion the devil is there. Keep your eyes on Jesus present in the Blessed Sacrament, make frequent Eucharistic Adoration visits. When you become a member follow the Pope and the Magisterium. By the way the Magisterium is only those Bishops who are in union with the Pope.

I will pray for you the devil will make it hard on you he doesn’t want you to come in.

 

[b32865]

carol marie:

Thanks to all who post with great answers. Sorry I seem so disgruntled - I have a hard time filtering out the “noise” as some have suggested. My prayer will remain the same as it’s been since I started reading the apologetic books…“Lead me Lord and I will follow You. If it’s Catholic You want me to be, Please Help me to find my way. In the name of my Dear Savior Jesus I pray.” Thanks to all who offer to pray on my behalf. I live in a far Northwest Suburb of Chicago - any good parish/elem school suggestions?

Carol Marie, I live in Aurora and I might be able to help you out. St. John Vianney in Northlake has always had a great reputation. If you’re as far out as Crystal Lake, I think St. Thomas the Apostle is supposed to be a good parish. St. John Cantius in the city on the near north side has a reputation for beautiful liturgies…they offer mass in the current rite in English, the current rite in Latin, and the Tridentine rite in Latin. Opus Dei (very orthodox order) runs a (very expensive) boys school (Northridge Prep) in Niles and a girls school (Willows Academy) in Des Plaines. If you e-mail me privately (b32865@atalanta.ctd.anl.gov) and tell me the town you live in, I could try to get ahold of some Catholic homeschoolers in your area. They would no doubt have the lowdown on good parishes and schools. Have you ever been to mass at the parish inside of whose boundaries you live? Maybe you should go and see what you think! If they have regular adoration of the Eucharist, that would be a good sign. Ask the pastor if his RCIA program is orthodox and see what he says! God bless you!

 

[jimmy]

carol marie:

After reading several Catholic apologetic type books (Born Fundementalist, born again Catholic & Suprised By the Truth I,II, III - My Life on the Rock - etc.) I started to believe that I had been wrong about the the Catholic Church - it wasn’t just a bunch of made up nonesense without any scriptural support, but rather it was a faith rooted in scripture. I began to believe that maybe it was the one true church that Jesus started and that Luther was wrong to break away because surely God isn’t pleased with all the disunity and thousands of different denomenations.

I am glad that you are searching into the catholic church.
carol marie:

I wanted to belong to the one, unified true Church and until I found this website, I thought the Catholic Church was it. Now I’m thinking that the Catholic church is filled with the same disunity as the Protestant churches. I’ve read Catholics who think speaking in tounges is OK vs. Catholics who don’t. Catholics who think the Pope isn’t the Pope - Catholics who think the mass should be in Latin - that Vat. II was a huge mistake vs. Catholics who think it was great.

Unity does not mean that everyone in the church believes the same thing. What it means is that no matter where you go on earth the church there will teach the same thing as it does in your hometown. There is one belief of the entire church and it is not open for interpretation. Yet, there are many individual people who believe otherwise and support abortion and so on. As for speaking in tongues, there is nothing wrong with speaking in tongue, the apostles did. But, you must be warry of those who think or say they have seen someone speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues is not some unintelligable mumbling, it was when the apotles spoke they could be understood by people of all languages. You will not see people speaking in tongues.
The mass is still said in latin at many parishes. It is not a dogma or doctrine of thechurch that the mass must be said in any particular rite. Some people like the latin mass because it is more reverent than the NO mass. They are allowed that opinion. I personally like the latin mass.
The church has defined many issues but they have not defined every issue. The issues that have not been defined are open to interpretation by individuals.
carol marie:

Catholics who believe in Adam & Eve, Catholics who believe in evolution, I read of terrible RICA classes, Wacky Priests who teach their own ideas, Pro choice Catholics (I always thought THAT was an oxymoron but apparently not) Hindus doing their Hindu thing in Catholic churches and now today I look at a weblink from this site where I read that 40,000 pieces of child pornograpy are found on computers at a seminary in Vienna and the Bishop calls it a “childish prank.”

This scandal is a very bad thing but everyone is tempted to sin. You will find scandal everywhere you go because that is the nature of human beings. There may be a tenth of a percent of the preist that are involved with this scandal or or five percent, that does not affect the truth of Gods church. Even Jesus had one out of twelve of his apostles go bad. The church never says that its members can’t sin, it just teaches that it will never teach error.
carol marie:

So I gotta tell ya, I’m begininging to rethink this whole Catholic thing. I think that the “one Holy & Apolstolic church” that my soul longed for does not exist because with all due respect, from where I sit, you aren’t looking so Holy and you certainly aren’t “one.”

Remeber that all sin. Pease, persevere through all the bad it will be worth it in the end. Good lick and God bless

 

[csr]

I decided to become Catholic after reading about it. I knew I was going to be Catholic before I set foot in a Catholic church. I decided with absolute firmness that the Catholic faith was the true one because it is philosophically perfect with the appropriate history and theology.

The various difficulties don’t bother me because I know that in one way or another they are expressions of sin. You must decide what is true and then remain unshakeable. Once you understand what the Catholic faith is, e.g. apostolic, sacramental, coherent, consistent over centuries, after that point all problems are foibles, that is, weaknesses, in mankind.

My advice: read old books. There is an infestation of modernism in the Church today, but we know, from faith, that the Faith cannot change. Older books are a delicious palliative and guide. I am reading right now a lovely book by Father Faber, a copy dating to 1879. You don’t have to go back that far, but believe me, at least far enough to check it out: if you go back a few decades you will find tremendous stability and calm.

Put what is logically true first in your mind. Understand the problems as expressions of sin second. Don’t let sin define the truth. Also, and I hesitate a bit to write this sentence because I don’t want to risk offending you, but, be careful that your avoidance of the Church at this juncture isn’t really an expression of hesitation at the moral teachings. I don’t know your situation or habits, but I knew when I joined, indeed when I decided to join, the Church, that some of my habits would simply have to stop, as I learned that they were sins. It was hard to overcome some of them, and some things like pride and unnecessary anger are harder to fully quell but with prayer and so on, with time and humility I hope to improve: but despite the difficulties I kept my mind open to the Faith. Be careful that you aren’t really using ongoing conflicts as an excuse to be permissive with yourself. The Church is the teacher of morality, for all who care to listen, and irrespective of the incredibly bad behavior of some of Her members.

 

[scaxter]

Carol Marie,

I can see how confusing this all must be to you.

Remember in the Old Testament God established His Chosen People. He had to continually call them back to the truth and tell them to repent of their sins. Being in the One, True, Apostolic Church does not mean no one sins or can’t have an opinion. But what we do have is unity in the teachings [doctrines] of Jesus Christ, infallibly taught to us by the successor of Peter, [now] John Paul II.

As Catholics we are supposed to pass this rich deposit of our Faith onto our children and their children, but sometimes along the way we get weak, and that passing on gets weak and therefore you might hear people not aware of all the truths the Church teaches. There are so many beautiful teachings it is sometimes overwhelming [a good kind of overwhelming] to learn them all. It takes time, patience, understanding, knowledge, love, etc. We are all at different places in our Faith and how much we have been taught. To be strong and full of the Faith is ideal, and a definite goal to work towards, but along the way you are going to have discussions, differences, etc. That does not change what Jesus taught and passed on through His Church.

The Church as a whole is the Mystical Body of Christ. Are some of the members of that Body weak or ill-informed? Yes, but that doesn’t change who the Body is, where she came from, and what she teaches in Jesus name.

John Kerry may “claim” to be Catholic, but what he professes is not in unity with what the Church officially teaches and he is in error, in fact, serious error.

It would be wise for you to seek out what the Church officially teaches as “infallible truth” first before depending on the “opinions” you may hear on these forums. I suggest reading the Catholic Catechism of the Church (CCC). It’s all there and maybe attending a Mass. It is very Biblical and beautiful and unites us in the Holy Eucharist, Christ’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity truly present in His One True Church.

As people professing to be Catholic, we must live what the Church teaches and if one doesn’t, it is very possible they are in disobedience to the teachings of Jesus Christ, taught to us by way of the Church. That doesn’t change His Church, it only proves there is sin in the world, yes, even in His Church.

I will keep you in my prayers, for to be a part of Christ’s one, true Church is the most beautiful thing in the world, and to literally receive Him in Holy Communion is a deep joy I hope you come to find!!!

 

[Lorarose]

Catholics are people.
People have never been very good at agreeing on much of anything.
Of course Jesus knew this and still He left behind His church founded on the rock of Peter.

He knew we would need a solid place to go to when the noise and confusion surrounded us.
When you feel like this - go to the horse’s mouth. Go to the scriptures, the catechism, the encyclicals (you can find alot on the vatican’s website) Listen to our leader the pope.
This should help alot more than concentrating on the vast differences in opinions that cathoics have.

Remember - there is a big difference between what people claim the church teaches on various issues vs. what the church actually DOES teach on various issues.
Read it yourself and then decide.

 

[BobCatholic]

carol marie:

Thanks to all who responded, especially BobCatholic who makes alot of sense.

You’re very welcome!

I’m freaked out thinking that I will have to “shop” Catholic churches that actually teach the stuff I’ve learned in all these apologetic books.

Don’t freak out You got plenty of experience. You’ll see if a priest is orthodox by his homilies. You can tell if a parish is orthodox by the importance of confession. Is confession only available by appointment? red flag.

I’m sure there are orthodox catholics who can help you find a good parish in your area.

How am I supposed to find a decent RICA program?

The same way you choose a parish. Orthodox parish, orthodox RCIA program, is the usual pattern.

How am I supposed to know if the Priest is wacky or if most in the congregation (parish?) are pro choice?

Who cares what others think? The parish I go to has an orthodox pastor who rocks in his homilies, has a great column in the bulletin which is great reading, and there are many in my parish who I would not want to say “Here’s a good example of a catholic” Wheat and chaff, remember?

I’m just so sad to think that it’s true… the church I’ve read about doesn’t really exist and if it does I have to weed through all the weeds so to speak to find it.

Well, good doctrine does not always make good people - people CHOOSE to accept it or not, and it is not the fault of the good doctrine if people choose to be bad. Don’t worry about others. Worry about you. What does Scripture say about the speck in your eye and the log in the other’s eye?

And don’t even get me started about Cathlic schools…

I won’t. I won’t even tell you about “catholic” colleges. More wheat and chaff.

told by Catholics NOT to send my kids to a Catholic School because they’ve all been hijacked by liberals and the religious education they’d receive would be heretic.

Same thing as choosing an orthdox parish: An orthodox parish has an orthodox school.

So bottom line, I’m wondering what the heck am I thinking? I’ve gotta be nuts to want to be Catholic?! Dear God what are you doing to me?? And I’m thinking that only a former Protestant convert can really appreciate how freaked out I am. Anybody?

Remember, that the devil will do anything, throw anyone at you to STOP YOU FROM COMING IN.

Work out your salvation in fear and trembling.
Run the race with Jesus Christ as your Goal.
Even if there are liberals against you.
Even if there are fellow (unorthodox) catholics against you.
Even if your family is against you.

We need more wheat like you. Come on home!

Your location says “Illinois” I don’t know where exactly, so I’ll give you some Chicago area parishes I like.

St. Daniel the Prophet Parish Chicago, IL (my home parish)
Five Holy Martyrs, Chicago, IL
St. John Cantius, Chicago, IL (traditional latin mass) www.cantius.org
St. Thomas More, Chicago, IL (traditional latin mass)
Annunciation of the Mother of God (Byzantine Catholic) www.byzantinecatholic.com Homer Glen, IL
Carmelite Shrine in Munster, IN (both Latin masses and Novus Ordo)

Edit: You mentioned NW suburbs, unfortunately, I don’t know of any parishes there. I went once to a byzantine Catholic one in palatine which was nice.