Wanting Religious Life for the wrong reasons?

[TraceofHope]

As someone with a history of anxiety disorder

You admit you have a history of anxiety disorder, are you on any medication or have you recently changed or quit any medication?

I ask because I work with people who while battling with other issues have come to find out that they have a brain chemistry make up that predisposes them to mood disorders.
One of them is a monk who it wouldn’t matter where he was or what he was doing, he would be depressed and have anxiety if he was off he meds. Now he sometimes feels like “why is God cursing me like this”. I tell him (and I believe this) that God is not cursing you; would you think that a diabetic who has to take insulin is cursed? No. That diabetic has their cross to bear but it is not a “curse”. If this monk was out in the real world would he still be this way? Yes! Has “hiding” in a monastery made it easier for him or solved his mood disorder? No! Would a really nice wife and children solve the problem? No! Because no matter where you go, there you are.

Now is medication the end all answer? NO!! The answer has to be spiritual, mental, and physical. And when I say spiritual I mean God. And God has to be at the top.
Now the next thing I usually hear is why can’t God just cure me of my (fill in the blank). The best answer I ever hear for this came from a wise old Nun who said, “Why would God want to cure you of a perfectly good affliction? It’s probably keeping your ego in check.” I love it because it gets back to the issue of our cross to bear. I usually throw in “Don’t discount God helping you in the forms of a good Christian Doctor, Pharmacist, and Counselor. God gave them their calling too.”

I have seen God do amazing things in peoples lives (when they let him). Don’t let your “PHD” brain get in your way. Miserable people make miserable Religous(monks,priest, and nuns) and miserable married people. Go back in “history” and figure out the root of the problem.

If you have or have had a family member or friend with a problem with alcohol try Alanon.

God Love You Keep seeking and don’t discount the humans God puts in your path.

 

[emily123]

My heart goes out to you in your struggle. I was involved in the same struggle as a person who also suffers from anxiety. My experience is that a person with anxiety and depression is not well suited for the religious life. Many communities would not even consider me because of this. I have learned to make peace with the fact that I am not called to the religious life after 12 years of worrying. I married 3 years ago and have a 21 month old daughter whom I named Maria after the Blessed Virgin. I am happy most of the time, but of course no life is all roses and sunshine. My advice to you is that if you are not happy and at peace most of the time, it is not your calling. That is OK.Don’t feel guilty about it!! I do not feel as if you are in religious life for the right reasons. If I were you, I would join a third order and get married. There are about 10 third orders for laypeople to join. They are a wonderful way to give your entire life to Jesus while living an ordinary life. God Bless You!

 

[DL82]

Thank you ALL for your contributions. I have found this extremely helpful.

Firstly, my anxiety disorder is relatively mild, it’s been mostly cured with Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, though I still occasionally feel scrupulous or have panic attacks due to impatience. It’s more a general anxiety than a mental disorder. I’ve been to counsellors who have said I don’t strike them as mentally ill in any way.

Secondly, moonletters’ post made me understand why the religious life is considered ‘objectively’ higher than married life. Even though marriage is a sacrament, it is a commitment to an imperfect, finite being, as such, it comes to an end when that person’s life comes to an end, that’s the only reason it’s less ‘permanent’ than religious vows, there’s nothing ‘lower’ about it in any other way, I guess.

To Angel Bradford, you’re probably right that I’m not called to the Salesians. I’ve pretty much arrived at that conclusion before I got here, I am still going to visit the Franciscans of the Immaculate and the Conventual Franciscans at some point.

I’ve started to feel a greater peace about making vows lately. I honestly feel that I could live a good life either as a married or a religious person, but if God calls me to the religious life, I can’t say no.

Two final things I’d appreciate an opinion on:

1. The role of ambition - the things I feel I have a talent and ability to achieve in the world are all in a role I would describe as worldly-academic, i.e. not primarily about philosophy and the Church, but primarily about applying my reason to political and social institutions, in a way that takes account of philosophy and Truth, but not in a way that is primarily about the Church. Should we choose a way of life that allows us to achieve our ambitions (i.e. if my ambition and talent was to be a good role-model for troubled kids, I’d totally see how the Salesians would be a good choice for me) or should we sacrifice our ambitions in the knowledge that God will always give us greater things to do (i.e. by giving up politics and social theory to enter the Conventuals, I trust that God will lead me to use the talents of my reason in Theology, the queen of the sciences). If I’m actually called to realise my ambition, then I’m probably called to a secular life, maybe in a Third Order.

I also know I’ve been given the gift of encouragement - of telling others what they need to hear to go on living the life they’ve been called to. More often than not, if I’m in silent prayer with others, I’ll settle on someone else in the congregation, and will pray asking God to hear his/her prayers, to pour out blessings on him/her, etc. That’s a gift I can use in any state of life, I guess, but it makes it hard to pray for my own intentions. That leaves me at the mercy of hearing what others have received in prayer about me, but never entirely trusting them.

1. The role of pride - after what I’ve already said about others’ “failed vocations”, I know it would be very humbling for me to have to go back to my friends and say “I was arrogant to think I could pursue a vocation just to get it ‘out of my system’, in truth, I was never discerning at all, I always knew the answer was no.” I have seen the joy it gives to others, including a girl I was hoping to have a relationship with, to see me pursuing a ‘higher calling’, and I don’t want to let them down. I could enter the priesthood just to satisfy the many friends and others who have expressed joy that I’m considering it.

In a way, I’ve realised why I feel resentful, it’s because I entered the discernment process to ‘get it out of my system’ - I thought it was something every single Catholic man ought to do for a year or two before deciding to get married. It never occurred to me that God would actually call me to give myself at the end of it. Honestly, I thought I’d develop skills and devotion that would make me a better husband and father, and I have. The only problem is, now I feel like I’d be ungrateful to God if I took those skills and used them to win a faithful wife, instead of using them in the service of the whole Church through religious priesthood. Even so, I always have the feeling when I pray the office, that I’m rehearsing for a time when I’ll lead my family in prayer together - maybe that’s just pride, and a refusal to really pray, to really enter into relationship with God in the here and now.

I feel like I’ve been shoved into it: first I meet and make friends with people who are discerning vocations, then I adopt a persona that encourages them, then other people see that persona and encourage me to discern, then I think I ought to discern to keep them happy and because I don’t trust my own intuitions and refuse to follow my own loves and desires, knowing that some of my desires are selfish and sinful, then I find great freedom in single life, preparing for marriage, but the consequences of my previous persona have caught up with me, i.e. the order I wrote to before coming to this self-knowledge writes back to me, I take it as a sign of providence and go, then I pray with them, live with them, talk with them, all their talk presumes that I want to be called, so I play the part in the conversation that they want me to play, I pray as they suggest, I start to convince myself that maybe I am called, and the more I tell others, the more I feel they are expecting it of me, the harder it would be for me to refuse.

I know what will convince my friends to really stick at their own discernment is not my going into religious life so much as my being honest about what God wants, all the same, how do I distinguish what God wants, what other holy people want of me, and just what my own selfish will wants?

It occurred to me yesterday that I’m not really as joyless as I think I am. I trust God’s word more than I trust my own emotions, which are prone to anxiety and selfishness and depression. I have chosen to give my all to God, as I said in the original post, I won’t say no to religious life. The Lord loves a cheerful giver. I know that the Lord loves me. Therefore, I am a giver whom the Lord loves. Therefore I am cheerful. QED. If I entertain the thought that my emotions are more real than reason, logic and Holy Scripture, am I entertaining a doubt about my faith? How should I respond to this particular argument? If someone else had said it to me, I would have accused them of trying to brainwash me.

Finally, I just keep hearing those words of Our Lord to the rich young man “if you would be perfect” - I have heard it said that, while the priesthood is not for everyone, the religious life is for anyone who says ‘yes’ to that call to be perfect. And those other words of our Lord to his disciples on celibacy “let he who can accept it, accept it”. It’s not a question of what I want, or what ‘feels right’, if I can accept the religious life, I ought to accept it. Right?

 

[DL82]

PS, to whoever suggested Third Orders, I am not in a Third Order as such, but am in the Legion of Mary and LOVE IT - it’s a fantastic opportunity to make a difference in the world. Again, I find myself asking - embrace that talent and mission, or sacrifice it in the hope that, though I don’t know it right now, somehow, God will give me a bigger, better mission?

Who eats, do it with thanksgiving, who abstains, give thanks too?
Whoever marries, does well, whoever doesn’t, does better?

 

[DL82]

I’ve worked out how to summarise my long rambling dilemma in 4 simple sentences:

1. I become a religious brother, things go badly, I regret it, but only from selfish motives, even as a mediocre brother, I still don’t fall into sin, and might do some small good.
2. I become a religious brother, things go well, I still don’t feel happy, but do good in the world. I still regret it because I wonder whether I could have done more good.
3. I become a husband and father, things go badly, I regret it, I hurt other people, fall into mortal sin, and might lose my soul and regret it in eternity.
4. I become a husband and father, things go well, I am happy AND do good in the world, maybe I still regret it because my mind naturally makes me second-guess myself, and I always have the words ‘higher calling’ running through my mind.

Basically, all options lead to the strong possibility of regret - I need to accept that I will go on second-guessing myself, and not think about it. Only option 3 is totally unacceptable. Only option 4 leads to me being happy. Do I prepare for the worst (default position for an anxious person), in which case I go for the religious life, because even if I don’t amount to much, the sacrifice has got to amount to something? Or do I prepare for the best (which I know I should, because I know God loves me and wants to bless me), in which case I go for married life, because that’s where I’d feel most able to use all my talents in God’s service, and most motivated to make it work?

 

[JReducation]

I’ve worked out how to summarise my long rambling dilemma in 4 simple sentences:

1. I become a religious brother, things go badly, I regret it, but only from selfish motives, even as a mediocre brother, I still don’t fall into sin, and might do some small good.
2. I become a religious brother, things go well, I still don’t feel happy, but do good in the world. I still regret it because I wonder whether I could have done more good.
3. I become a husband and father, things go badly, I regret it, I hurt other people, fall into mortal sin, and might lose my soul and regret it in eternity.
4. I become a husband and father, things go well, I am happy AND do good in the world, maybe I still regret it because my mind naturally makes me second-guess myself, and I always have the words ‘higher calling’ running through my mind.

Basically, all options lead to the strong possibility of regret - I need to accept that I will go on second-guessing myself, and not think about it. Only option 3 is totally unacceptable. Only option 4 leads to me being happy. Do I prepare for the worst (default position for an anxious person), in which case I go for the religious life, because even if I don’t amount to much, the sacrifice has got to amount to something? Or do I prepare for the best (which I know I should, because I know God loves me and wants to bless me), in which case I go for married life, because that’s where I’d feel most able to use all my talents in God’s service, and most motivated to make it work?

Nothing in life is ever guarranteed. We can all fail. The idea that you could become a brother bothers me, as brother myself. The religiousl life is not a halfway step between marriage and the priesthood. It is a call to consecrate yourself to lvie as Christ lived and to lay down your life for his people. It is a call to an intimate relationship with Christ through the vows that you profess. It is a call to a long journey of continuous conversion. As a brother, you stand in the place of Christ, the firstborn of many brothers. It is the brother’s call to be perfect as Christ was perfect and to lead all his brothers and sisters to the Father, as Christ our brother did. The brother is not a priest, because he is a mediocre religious, but because religious life does not require the priesthood. They are two separate calls. Some men receive both, some men receive one, and some men receive neither call. Obviously, if a man is a priest or a brother and has to leave, it is because he was not called. Those whom Christ called to himself, remain in him through his grace and their love. If they fail to love, then it is more than likely that either they were not called or they did not make proper use of the graces that they were given to love, which also may mean that they do not have the calling. God does give us the grace ot use grace.

There is nothing wrong with leaving a religious community while you’re discerning. In actuality, what you conclude when you leave is that you did discern that this is not where God is calling you to be.

Regarding your ambitions. I was reading that and I was thinking that they are really gifts. You should go where you can use those gifts. If you have a gift for teaching, it would be silly to join the Franciscan family. We are not teachers. Many of us have taught, but that is an exception to the rule, not the rule. We are an order of itinerant preachers, whether one is ordained or not. A person who has the gift to teach and wants to make sure that he will be able to use that gift would be better among the Jesuits or the Dominicans, because they are teaching orders.

One’s gifts are usually the best indicator of where one belongs. Trust your gifts.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[DL82]

Nothing in life is ever guarranteed. We can all fail. The idea that you could become a brother bothers me, as brother myself. The religiousl life is not a halfway step between marriage and the priesthood. It is a call to consecrate yourself to lvie as Christ lived and to lay down your life for his people. It is a call to an intimate relationship with Christ through the vows that you profess. It is a call to a long journey of continuous conversion. As a brother, you stand in the place of Christ, the firstborn of many brothers. It is the brother’s call to be perfect as Christ was perfect and to lead all his brothers and sisters to the Father, as Christ our brother did. The brother is not a priest, because he is a mediocre religious, but because religious life does not require the priesthood. They are two separate calls. Some men receive both, some men receive one, and some men receive neither call. Obviously, if a man is a priest or a brother and has to leave, it is because he was not called. Those whom Christ called to himself, remain in him through his grace and their love. If they fail to love, then it is more than likely that either they were not called or they did not make proper use of the graces that they were given to love, which also may mean that they do not have the calling. God does give us the grace ot use grace.

There is nothing wrong with leaving a religious community while you’re discerning. In actuality, what you conclude when you leave is that you did discern that this is not where God is calling you to be.

Regarding your ambitions. I was reading that and I was thinking that they are really gifts. You should go where you can use those gifts. If you have a gift for teaching, it would be silly to join the Franciscan family. We are not teachers. Many of us have taught, but that is an exception to the rule, not the rule. We are an order of itinerant preachers, whether one is ordained or not. A person who has the gift to teach and wants to make sure that he will be able to use that gift would be better among the Jesuits or the Dominicans, because they are teaching orders.

One’s gifts are usually the best indicator of where one belongs. Trust your gifts.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thanks JR, I appreciate your advice. I guess I used the term ‘brother’ to mean either a priest-brother or a lay-brother, because I see the religious life as my first call, and will follow the advice of my superior on whether to be a priest. In that respect, I like the Franciscan rule, where you don’t choose to enter as one or the other.

I don’t mean to suggest that a brother is a mediocre religious, but I know there’s a substantial risk of me being a mediocre religious, because it just requires so much effort to get excited about the religious life. I can get excited about serving God in the Legion of Mary, I can get excited about serving God in my academic life, I can get excited about serving God in a faithful and fruitful marriage. I can also get a little excited about serving God in the priesthood (more scared than excited really), but I can’t get excited about the religious life.

It seems like a modernist misuderstanding to me to suggest that some are called to marriage and some are called to religious life. I would say that all are called to be perfect, and Our Lord made it pretty clear what that means ‘if you would be perfect, go, sell all that you have, give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven, then come, follow me’. Not everyone is chosen for that call to be perfect ‘many are called, few are chosen’. All the same, it’s not something that you have to desire in order for it to be your call. ‘Let him who can accept it, accept it’ - I know I can accept it. I know I could get up tomorrow and live under the Salesian rule and not resent it, just as I got up yesterday and didn’t resent it, I could keep doing that for all the tomorrows until final vows. By that time, I’d be used to it, everything in me would resist making final vows, but Christ has conquered everything in me, so in the end, I’d make my vows, and trust His grace to keep me faithful to them. If I can do it, I must do it, irrespective of desire. Theology is not therapy - modernism sometimes doesn’t understand that.

This is not to disparage the married state. JR talks about being given the grace to use grace. I guess you could say everyone is given the grace to be perfect, but not everyone is given the grace to use that grace in the religious state.

I think we also labour under a misperception if we think that resentful and oppressed priests and religious will put people off vocations. Look at the facts, people in the past saw plenty of miserable and mediocre priests and religious, and yet they entered orders in huge numbers. They saw the possibility to conquer self, to conquer desire. I still see that, and I still believe it’s true. St Andrew Dun Lac became a priest after seeing the previous bishop of Vietnam hanging in a cage being starved to death. The witness of martyrs, red or white, is the most powerful draw to vocations there can be.

As for what you said about gifts - I don’t think my gift is about teaching, so much as it is about being a policy analyst - someone who stands between politics and academia. It’s very much a worldly, i.e. secular, lay gift. There isn’t really any religious order that specialises in that kind of thing. I suppose I could be a numary in Opus Dei or something like that, but I’m really not attracted to that form of life. I also think it would make it harder to be taken seriously in the social policy world if I’m seen as someone bound to obedience. The fact that it’s a worldly ambition makes me think I ought to sacrifice it, and that if I do, I will be given a higher gift, even though I can’t see or feel it right now.

Maybe I just need to pray for the grace to use the grace I’ve been given in the religious state.

My one last question to you, JR, as someone who has walked and is walking this road: Even though I know all this stuff, I don’t ‘feel’ it. I know I ought to want it. I know it would be easier to do it if I wanted it. How do I make myself want to want it?

 

[Pro_Domina]

I’ve worked out how to summarise my long rambling dilemma in 4 simple sentences:

1. I become a religious brother, things go badly, I regret it, but only from selfish motives, even as a mediocre brother, I still don’t fall into sin, and might do some small good.
2. I become a religious brother, things go well, I still don’t feel happy, but do good in the world. I still regret it because I wonder whether I could have done more good.
3. I become a husband and father, things go badly, I regret it, I hurt other people, fall into mortal sin, and might lose my soul and regret it in eternity.
4. I become a husband and father, things go well, I am happy AND do good in the world, maybe I still regret it because my mind naturally makes me second-guess myself, and I always have the words ‘higher calling’ running through my mind.

Basically, all options lead to the strong possibility of regret - I need to accept that I will go on second-guessing myself, and not think about it. Only option 3 is totally unacceptable. Only option 4 leads to me being happy. Do I prepare for the worst (default position for an anxious person), in which case I go for the religious life, because even if I don’t amount to much, the sacrifice has got to amount to something? Or do I prepare for the best (which I know I should, because I know God loves me and wants to bless me), in which case I go for married life, because that’s where I’d feel most able to use all my talents in God’s service, and most motivated to make it work?

Mediocrity has a worst price to pay in Hell then one who at least was radical in his evil.

Sed quia tepidus es, et nec frigidus, nec calidus, incipiam te evomere ex ore meo…

Don’t get angry here, but sometimes no one will ever say this to you and you past throughout life this way, but you are a super selfish person. You are worried about your little soul, about your little life, about this and that, all me me and me.
Forget about yourself. Do what you are doing with prayer and worried about what God wants, about the problems in His Church, in this cursed world and see how to fight for Him. Right now you aren’t even capable of being married because you can’t even get yourself straight, how are you going to sanctify another. Mortal sin is everywhere, and if you pass your life trying to be “correct” instead of a saint you will stay in that miserable state you find yourself. Be a hero, pray, confront the world. Maybe you aren’t even called to be married or in a monastery. Maybe you must fight as a celibate layman.
But stop thinking about your misery, pray a Salve and ask what She wants, but not because of you, because He deserves a saintly warrior.

ENTHUSIASM!

 

[DL82]

Mediocrity has a worst price to pay in Hell then one who at least was radical in his evil.

Sed quia tepidus es, et nec frigidus, nec calidus, incipiam te evomere ex ore meo…

Don’t get angry here, but sometimes no one will ever say this to you and you past throughout life this way, but you are a super selfish person. You are worried about your little soul, about your little life, about this and that, all me me and me.
Forget about yourself. Do what you are doing with prayer and worried about what God wants, about the problems in His Church, in this cursed world and see how to fight for Him. Right now you aren’t even capable of being married because you can’t even get yourself straight, how are you going to sanctify another. Mortal sin is everywhere, and if you pass your life trying to be “correct” instead of a saint you will stay in that miserable state you find yourself. Be a hero, pray, confront the world. Maybe you aren’t even called to be married or in a monastery. Maybe you must fight as a celibate layman.
But stop thinking about your misery, pray a Salve and ask what She wants, but not because of you, because He deserves a saintly warrior.

ENTHUSIASM!

Thank you.

Please pray for me. Please pray for me to want religious life for the right reasons. I don’t say pray for me to ‘find the right vocation’, God is already onto that one. Pray for me to want religious life and commit to it. I can’t pray for myself because I lack the desire, that’s why I’m asking you to pray for me to be given that desire. I’ve asked everyone I know to pray for me to have that desire. If God doesn’t want to give it, He will not answer these prayers, but if there’s any way, any way at all, that I can join the life of perfection that is the religious life, and do it for others, for Him, with love and enthusiasm, I want to know that I’ve given it all I can. Please pray for me.

 

[baltobetsy]

Please pray for me. Please pray for me to want religious life for the right reasons. I don’t say pray for me to ‘find the right vocation’, God is already onto that one. Pray for me to want religious life and commit to it.

Why should we pray for you to want religious life when God may not want that for you??? According to your posts, He has given you aptitudes and talents and desires that point to marriage, fatherhood and a career in the secular world. But you are all ready to throw away the gifts that HE has given you, because you think you know better.

The Rich Young Man went away sad because he refused HIS vocation. In my opinion, he is not a type for all of humanity - not everyone is called to sell all and follow Christ in consecrated life. Does it make sense that God would call all to consecrated life? Humanity would die out pretty quickly then. You can’t expect us to believe that the propagation of the human race occurs only as a result of God’s permissive will. Only the undesirables who can’t or won’t do the perfect thing get married and raise families? I don’t think so. Would these be the parents of the saints? It is very possible for someone who becomes a religious to “go away sad” from his real vocation.

The call to perfection is a call to do YOUR job perfectly, whether that is the job of a priest, religious, married or single person. It is possible to sanctify oneself and be perfect in any of these states in life. That was the message of Vatican II (or was that a heretical, modernist council?), and it is the message of Opus Dei as well. I suggest you look at the writings of St. Josemaria Escriva ( www.escrivaworks.org ) for the concept of perfection in the lay state.

Another thing - what makes you think that being a religious or a priest will keep you from mortal sin? Go over to the Family Life board and look at the thread called, “My relationship with my former parish priest.” That woman and the priest she is involved with have certainly committed sins. That priest wasn’t safe, and neither is any priest or religious. The fight against sin, like the call to perfection, is part of every state in life.

Frankly, you sound depressed. You are ready to be miserable, getting up each day to live the life of a mediocre religious. This is not a healthy thing to accept. God does not call us to be miserable. As I’ve told you before, your vocation should give you wings, freeing you to do what God has made you and called you to do. It should make you deeply happy, even in the difficult times. Doing His will is a foretaste of heaven. You don’t think heaven is full of sour-faced souls who have denied everything that they are for some ideal, do you? No - it is a place of joy, and so should our lives be joyful.

I would strongly advise working out some of these unrequited love and aptitude issues with your mental health professional before continuing to discern.

Praying for you to find out God’s will for yourself and do it,
Betsy

 

[JReducation]

Thanks JR, I appreciate your advice. I guess I used the term ‘brother’ to mean either a priest-brother or a lay-brother, because I see the religious life as my first call, and will follow the advice of my superior on whether to be a priest. In that respect, I like the Franciscan rule, where you don’t choose to enter as one or the other.

If you join the Franciscan family, you always join to be a religiious brother. No one enters the Franciscan family to be a priest. That’s a big NO NO among Franciscans. All you have to do is to look at any website of any of the Franciscan branches. None of them promote the priesthood. They all promote St. Francis. In a very strange way, we are very much in love with our holy Father and we know that we are called to live the Gospel as he lived it. Those brothers who are ordained priests are men who have a vocation within a vocation. They must first and always be brothers. The priesthood is a call that they receive. But they may never sacrifice their vow to live the Gospel as Francis lived it. They may never sacrifice their life in community, for the sake of their priestly duties. If ever there is a conflict between their priestly duties and their duties to the Franciscan family, the Franciscan family trumps the other. They are Franciscans first and priests second. Their brothers come first and the laity always comes second.

Also, a Franciscan who has a call to the priesthood is one who has the permission of his brothers to be ordained. If you feel that you are called to be ordained. You have prayed over it. Your confessor and spiritual director say that you do and your Franciscan brothers vote against your ordination, they are right and every one else is wrong. This is the law of the Church. The brothers speak for Christ. Only the major superior can present you to a bishop for ordination. No bishop can ordain you without the major superior’s permission. The major superior never gives the permission without a vote from the brothers. Those of you who are lay people out there may find this to be news to you. Because this is one of those inside mysteries of Franciscan life that is not usually shared with the laity. The order considers this to be an internal affair. Even if you are allowed to be ordained a priest, your ministry to the laity is limited by your brothers. Your brothers decide your schedule, how you serve, where you serve, how long you serve and whom you serve. You never stop being a brother, because you must be obedient to them in all things.

That’s why being happy as a religious, in any order is important. If you’re just complying, but are not happy, these restrictions will weigh you down like cement shoes on a drowning man.

My one last question to you, JR, as someone who has walked and is walking this road: Even though I know all this stuff, I don’t ‘feel’ it. I know I ought to want it. I know it would be easier to do it if I wanted it. How do I make myself want to want it?

My son, I can tell you from personal experience, we cannot make ourselves want to want the crosses and the gifts of the consecrated life. I remember my own experience. I knew that this is what I wanted, because I had been married and widowed. I remembered what it was like to be in love with a wonderful woman and I remamber what it was like to have a wonderful marriage and to be fully engaged int he married life, with my wife and my three kids.

When I encountered the Franciscan Brothers of Life, I fell in love. I had the same feelings as I had when I was a young man in love with the pretty girl who later became my wife. When I entered the postulancy and the novitiate, I fell more in love with the life, as I became more involved, I felt the same way as I did when my children were born. I was excited to be there. I was excited to be called “Brother.” That excitement has not died out.

Tonday I spend more than 15 hours collecting foor for the poor. I worked with about 100 teens, from Life Teen. Everytime one of those kids said, “Brother” when they spoke to me, I felt the same tenderness for them as I did for my children. I felt the same excitement about how much in love I am with being a brother. It excites me. It takes away the fatigue of a long day and make me happy and enthusiastic. It doesn’t make me want to te a brother. I’m must excited that I am a brother. My excitement, even when I’m tired, like today, comes from being my Lord’s brother, brom being one with him, who is the first born of many brothes. I don’t have to make myself want to do it. I simply have to make myself live the virtues, not be a brother. That’s already buit into me and my excitement is still as new and fresh today as it was eight years ago when I entered…

I don’t have a home. I don’t have a roof over my heard. I beg for my food. I don’t have a car. I don’t have money in the bank. I have slept under bridges and in religious houses. I have had to beg for money to pay our rent. I have had to beg for food. I have only one habit and two pairs of pants for work and two shirts. But I’m happy as a blade of grass on a rainy day.

You can’t make yourself want it. You must be in love. When you’re in love, you’re most difficult day is just moment in history and you know that it will be over when you fall asleep.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[seremina]

Ironically, I so long for consecrated life and have been turned away, feeling separated from what I feel is God’s Will. Yet, I do have lingering questions in my heart as well. I was once told that in the past, women were forced into religious life, because they were too ugly to get a husband. I am someone who has always struggled with self esteem and feel that an aesthetically appealing appearance was not one of my gifts. My attempts at romance have been disastrous (to put it mildly). I feel a sense of peace if I see myself living as a bride of Christ and there have been times when I pray on it that I smell roses.

I am left with the confusion: Am I considering religious life just to “hide” my unattractiveness from the public or am I submitting to His Will?

Iris Marie<><

I’m in the same boat as you. Jesus is calling me and has been ever since I was a child. I’m 30 now and rejections are still an issue. I almost feel like Lay orders and Third Orders are there for those that can’t get into Religious Life but they do have their noble and Christly purpose. You must be really discouraged. Please ask Jesus to tell you plainly if He wants you Consecrated to Him or to give you peace. Your looks should never be important, even if you lack beauty. Virtues are real beauty, so how about beautifying your heart? I only mean to encourage you and help you, so I hope nothing comes across badly.

 

[nsper7]

As a preface, I maybe the wrong person to give advice since I am in a similar situation as you are in that I am discerning whether religious life is for me as well (I just got back on Monday from a 6-day visit to the Franciscan Custody of the Holy Land’s American monastery in Washington, DC) so please take everything I say with a grain of salt (or maybe a few truckloads).

I have recently come to realise just how dull the religious life seems to me. Don’t get me wrong, there are some fantastic religious brothers (I’m temporarily living with 12 of them!) who do some amazing work in the world. I just mean it feels dull to me, and I act in a dull way.

First off, what religious order are you staying with? How does it feel dull to you? Might it just mean you need to find a religious order more suited to your skills and interests?

Basically, I think I want religious life for all the wrong reasons - as a single man, only child, and convert, without many close friends, currently taking a PhD with no clear career goals in my late 20’s, I guess religious life is quite secure - I know I wouldn’t ever have to worry about my finances again, or about where I’d live, or about living alone or dying alone. It’s also an excuse for not needing to do anything amazing with my life - I could excuse my failure to make a deep impact on the academic world by saying ‘well, I would’ve changed the face of Catholic education, but 5 years into my magnum opus I had to leave to be provincial bursar’, or whatever. As someone with a history of anxiety disorder, I know I often fear the worst, and religious life would be a way of escaping the worst, a way of settling for security, not so much a sacrifice as a trade-off. It’s true that I don’t sin as much when I’m here, but I also don’t even feel that I do as much good as the average married person, and certainly nowhere near as much good as I do when I’m at home and actively involved in the Legion of Mary! I know we’re called to throw our lives away for Christ, but this just seems like the wrong kind, the wrong definition of throwing my life away. Am I wrong?

Is security always a bad thing? After all, Jesus told us not to worry about our material needs. Certainly, in a religious order, you are living out that Gospel command/bit of advice. We are also called to fellowship, so wanting to not have to worry about living/dying alone is not necessarily a bad thing either.

Is Jesus calling you to make a ‘deep impact’ on the academic world? Perhaps He is calling you to make an impact on whatever religious order you join? I too suffer from anxiety disorder (OCD/Scrupulosity) and it is a tough issue to deal with. God knows what we need and perhaps you need stability and calm in the way you serve God and His Church. Of course, perhaps God is going to call you out of your ‘comfort zone’, but remember in the end God wants us to be at peace with ourselves and with Him and joyful (not always happy…there is a difference). One other thing, we are not called to ‘throw away our lives’ for Him, but to serve and follow Him. For some, might that lead to martyrdom or a greater degree of self-denial? Yes, but that is certainly not ‘throwing away our lives’.

Religious life shouldn’t be that way, and Christian life shouldn’t be that way. It’s not about security, but about taking a risk. I feel excited by the prospect of married life, I even feel excited about the thought of single life in the world, if it allows me to dedicate myself completely to God’s work. I’ve started thinking recently about the life of St Benedict Joseph Labre, the wandering pilgrim saint, and the thought of living a life of radical adventure like that, it seems like a genuinely heroic thing to do. Even as a married man or a permanent Deacon living in a local community, I could still be heroic in giving what I can to those around me, being a faithful witness to my kids.

In your ideal, what should religious, and Christian, life be? Sometimes risks are necessary and important (whether in secular or spiritual terms), but seeking risks just for the sake of seeking risks seems foolhardy, but that’s just me. Perhaps, if you feel God is calling you to ‘single life in the world’, you might consider joining a religious order/society of apostolic life that focuses on an active apostolate–not all orders/societies are contemplative and cloistered. You could also join a Third/Secular Order or a group like Opus Dei which specializes in helping the laity live out the Faith in a good, even ‘heroic’, way. Again, what are your skills and your interests?

In terms of being heroic, have you read how the Church defines being ‘heroic in virtue’? Perhaps you should the Catholic Encyclopedia article on it at least(HEROIC VIRTUE). We sometimes can get a skewed view on things because of our culture (i.e. how Hollywood defines ‘heroic’ and such). You are right about all the things you have said: you can show heroic virtue as a married Deacon or single lay person or whatever, but you can also be heroic as a religious brother or Priest.

At the same time, this morning’s reading at Morning Prayer was all about the world being subjected to futility in hope of transformation. Maybe I need to accept that, in reality, I probably could have a great career, a happy marriage, an important role building up the Church locally and through my writing, but that at the end of the day it would still be futile unless the One who subjected the world to futility in hope blesses it. In that case, I may as well accept the futility any vocation, and the objective superiority of living the religious life under the evangelical counsels. It would be the sacrifice of not even allowing myself the excitement of finding out whether I could make a go of life in the world, of just accepting that futility in love and hope, the hope that God can bring good out of it.

Don’t get so maudlin and morose about these things. Again, it may just be you need to find a religious order that is more ‘exciting’ and to your tastes. There are numerous religious orders in the Catholic Church and each has a unique charism and way of life. It is not a one size fits all sort of thing. Again, what are your skills and interests?

 

[nsper7]

The one thing that worries me is that I don’t want to waste more of my life. I’m 27 now, and have another year to go of my PhD. I don’t want to find myself, 5 years on, about to get married, on the way to academic tenure and a promising career, finally realising that, now that I have something to sacrifice, God wants me to sacrifice it and go into religious life. I know that my own anxious mind would bring that thought up and dash all my hopes down if I ever did find myself in that position again (I was engaged and in a promising career 3 years ago, prior to my confirmation, and wrecked it because I was afraid that God was asking me to give it all up to become a religious, and tried to run away from that call), though I don’t know if that anxiety would be from God, it certainly wasn’t from Him the first time.

Yes, I know, tell a Spiritual Director - believe me, I will - all the same, I just wondered if anyone else had had a similar experience? Is it always wrong to enter religious life for these reasons? I know, historically, a lot of the people who entered monasteries in the Middle Ages had such an approach, it wasn’t a bad lifestyle, and nobody needed to know. Maybe the ‘vocations crisis’ is in part due to people always examining their motives on such a deep level. Maybe it was easier for the Church to get an adequate supply of adequate priests - true saints have always been few and far between - when people just accepted that it was as well to accept the clerical state as their lot in life?

Yes, talk to a Spiritual Director. There should be plenty of good Brothers and Fathers where you are living in the Salesian monastery. That is an excellent idea. Good luck with your decisions.

 

[irisfromohio]

I’m in the same boat as you. Jesus is calling me and has been ever since I was a child. I’m 30 now and rejections are still an issue. I almost feel like Lay orders and Third Orders are there for those that can’t get into Religious Life but they do have their noble and Christly purpose. You must be really discouraged. Please ask Jesus to tell you plainly if He wants you Consecrated to Him or to give you peace. Your looks should never be important, even if you lack beauty. Virtues are real beauty, so how about beautifying your heart? I only mean to encourage you and help you, so I hope nothing comes across badly.

You are encouraging, seremina, and thank you for the sweetness. I realize that the ideal is the beauty within. And, we all strive to make the world a better place, in spite of our short comings. But, self love is another one of my life’s tough nuts to crack. Tis better to function and try to transcend one’s corporal being… forget about the body and focus on Him, I say:thumbsup:

 

[JReducation]

I’m in the same boat as you. Jesus is calling me and has been ever since I was a child. I’m 30 now and rejections are still an issue. I almost feel like Lay orders and Third Orders are there for those that can’t get into Religious Life but they do have their noble and Christly purpose. .

Whoah! Secular Orders are not for people who cannot enter a religious order. Secular Orders are part of religious families. They are a calling of their own. The Church recognizes them as a separate calling from the conventual life. But they are called to live the evangelical councils, the Gospel and the rule of their founder. They have a ministry in the Church, their own spirituality, their own canonical superiors, fraternities and some even live in common community houses. Some members are celibate. Some are deacons, priests, bishops and even popes. John XXIII was a Secular Franciscan. I believe that John Paul II was a Carmelite. St. Pius X was also a Secular Franciscan.

Every secular order falls under the authority of the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. They are considered Institutes of Consecrated Life and public associations of the faithful. Their profession is a liturgical action that is binding until death under the pain of serious sin if they violate it. The larger Secular Orders: Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites and Oblates, each have a superior general in Rome who answers to the Holy Father like any other order. Many of these orders have given birth to hundreds of congregations.

My own congreation was founded by four Secular Franciscans who wanted to live the conventual life following the rule of St. Francis for the Brothers and Sisters of Penance. The TOR friars who run Franciscan University are part of the Third Order. Hence their initials after their name. But they are real friars. The Friars on EWTN are part of the Third Order of St. Francis. But they are real friars. Some third order members are friars, sisters, diocesan clerics or married men and women. But they all follow the same rule of life and form one family. This is true of the Dominicans, Carmelites and Benedictines.

Be careful. To be a member of a Third Order you must have a calling to that life.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

PS. Our OSF stands for Brothers of Life of the Order of St. Francis. We are friars, but we were founded by Secular Franciscans and Capuchin Friars who joined to start a new order.

 

[DL82]

OK, talked to a spiritual director. He basically said God wants me to be free, and in the absence of any real desire or sense of a call, I should do what gives me joy in the Lord. For me, that means married life, the Legion of Mary, my academic work, and maybe the permanent Diaconate a long way down the line. I spoke to the rector of the Salesian house too, he basically said the same thing. Discernment over (for now). Far from appearing a failure in the eyes of the girl I gave up to start this discernment, she seems to think me the better man for admitting my mistakes. All of these things will bring sacrifice, but I feel like God is giving, has given, will give me the grace to accept it joyfully

Man, God is good! I can see the wisdom in this too. It just seems like there’s so much to be done in the place I’m in. I can’t discern in the abstract. I can’t go straight from “the Church needs priests” to “I should be one”. The Church, and the Lord, needs people to live faithful lives of witness to Him.

I feel like I can laugh, smile, joke, make the effort to do all the extra academic projects I keep telling myself I’ll do, take care of my health, look women in the eye without fear, sing the songs that I sing to entertain, pray with sincerity, go to adoration without fear (or rather, with the right kind of fear), and just generally be myself again! Deo gratias!

If God still wants to call me back to the religious life, He’ll have to show me pretty clearly. I’m still open, but won’t try to pre-empt Him. I’m happy to let God be God. In all of this, I’ve done as my S.D. said, and have avoided (as far as possible) the modernist assumption that theology is therapy. All the same, there are some things in the Church’s past that aren’t worth returning to just because they existed in the past - overflowing ranks of mediocre and miserable religious are one of them! Thank you to all those who showed me that saying ‘no’ to the religious life doesn’t necessarily mean saying ‘no’ to God. I finally feel free to say ‘yes’ to Him in a way that is joyful and meaningful.

Thank you all for your advice and prayers.

 

[DL82]

I just want to leave something clear to you. If have a vocation to something ( religious or married, etc) and do something else, some saints say that with great difficulty you will save yourself. Others say it is IMPOSSIBLE.

While this is true, I think you also need to say that the Sacraments accomplish what they signify.

To put it another way, the only way you could really do other than your vocation would be to deliberately run away, i.e. to know for sure you’re supposed to marry, and run away to a monastery the night before your wedding, or to have a shotgun wedding the night before you were due to be ordained. If you do that, you wouldn’t truly be free. As my spiritual director explained (and had to drill into me), in order to truly accept any vocation, you need to be truly free.

I think it was the fear of this kind of teaching that made me so worried about my vocation. It almost makes discernment feel like a game of Deal or No Deal where you have to pick the right box or you lose. For someone like me who can be over-scrupulous, if you are open to following God’s call, and you are in a state of grace, you are following God’s call.

For example, if you get married before you are really committed to your faith, and later come (back) to the Church, you don’t need to worry that you weren’t called to marriage in the first place. By virtue of the sacrament, you have the vocation to marriage.

 

[irisfromohio]

For example, if you get married before you are really committed to your faith, and later come (back) to the Church, you don’t need to worry that you weren’t called to marriage in the first place. By virtue of the sacrament, you have the vocation to marriage.

Wrong answer? I married a non Catholic in a Catholic ceremony. While I was living a married vocation, I didn’t HAVE a married vocation. I married for several wrong reasons and have suffered and am still suffering for that error in judgement. In fact, all of my attempts at romance were disasters, I didn’t think I was “good enough” for religious life (I still wonder sometimes), yet I still tried for several years to find a mate. What it came down to for me was that for me to even be in a relationship with a man, he would have to be perfect. The only Perfect Man to live on earth is Jesus. I surmised that that fact alone made my decision for me.

 

[JReducation]

Wrong answer? I married a non Catholic in a Catholic ceremony. While I was living a married vocation, I didn’t HAVE a married vocation. I married for several wrong reasons and have suffered and am still suffering for that error in judgement. In fact, all of my attempts at romance were disasters, I didn’t think I was “good enough” for religious life (I still wonder sometimes), yet I still tried for several years to find a mate. What it came down to for me was that for me to even be in a relationship with a man, he would have to be perfect. The only Perfect Man to live on earth is Jesus. I surmised that that fact alone made my decision for me.

As a religious myself, I would encourage caution here. The best religious (men and women) are those who would make the best spouses and the best parents. Usually, those people who are not marriage material are not material for religious life either. They tend to have problems with intimacy. Intimacy is the stuff that community life is made of. People must learn to live in intimate spiritual and psychological relationship with each other, if the community is to be well integrated and healthy. In our own community we do not accept anyone whom we suspect would not be a good husband and father. He will probabl not be a good brother to the other brothers either. You must have the ability to become one with others and the nurturing skills of a good parent to be a good religious.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF