War on Catholic Teaching

[guanophore]

I will not repent for undergoing a procedure that was a medical necessity. God would not be opposed to me undergoing a life-saving procedure would he?

I mean God did create me with scoliosis. However, my lungs and heart were being crushed and I would suffer for three months and then die without scoliosis fusion surgery.

I would have also suffered for a short period of time and then die without castration. Undergoing a necessary medical procedure or service is not a crime or a sin against god.

I agree that going through a medically necessary procedure is not a sin. That is why certain medical procedures that result in the loss of the fetus are not considered abortive. However, I am having trouble making sense of your statement here.

Your genitals seem to be a very private matter, and although I am curious, I am thinking that this is not the appropriate venue for my questions. I do appreciate that you have been so open and forthcoming, however.

God did not “create” you with disabilities. These are effects of the Fall. God allows disabilities, and works through them for our sanctification.

I know about God and Jesus because I read the Bible and take it as a whole document, not in bits and shards. The current church guidelines were most likely handed down by Jesus but they have also been corrupted by the hands of man.

This statement also represents a departure from Church teaching. The Catholic Church is preserved from error by the Holy Spirit. He prevents this type of “corruption” from occurring. It may be statements like this that your parish members are finding offensive or intimidating.

Bishops in our church shielded and defended child molesting Priests even the Holy See, the Vatican, defended them. This is a major error within our church leadership and ergo demonstrates that our leadership must change and our rules for shielding any who enter a Church or Monastery must change.

yes, but it would be an error to ascribe the sins if individuals to the Church. the promise of infallibility relates to the Teaching of the Church, not to the individuals who depart from her direction, as these men did.

 

[guanophore]

Ok! I think I understand now. First off I think you’ve been horribly misunderstood on this thread… probably because you said, transsexual, rather than hermaphrodite. (Also I assumed that you were more of a homosexual man when I said that having a boyfriend was an issue… again I think there’s been poor communication on both sides here)

No, I think she said what she meant. She feels like a woman born with a man’s body. This does not include any ambiguous genitalia.

 

[graceandglory]

I’ll tell you what. You quit your job first then I’ll quit my job because I don’t want to live on the streets alone. It will be highly unlikely for me to get another job since automatically 99% of all possible employers will refuse to interview me. You know what happens to people of very marginalized and hated minorities on the streets? Please do not wish suffering on me and pretend to be a Catholic. Also, judgment is reserved for God.

Having been unemployed for more than two years, I find it hard to sympathize.

I care very much that Catholics who LOVE THEIR FAITH are teaching my children. Sounds like someone else is pretending.

 

[guanophore]

Wrong. Abortion is acceptable if the mother will die in pregnancy

No, Maria, it is not. Abortion is always and everywhere wrong.

or the fetus is already dead or a tumor.

If the fetus is dead, it is not an abortion. An abortion takes the life of the child.

A tumor is not a reason to commit murder, either.

 Homosexual Marriage is different than Marriage.

There is no such thing as “homosexual marriage”.

Nonetheless, I support all Marriage being called a Civil Union. If you want to get married in a church then call it a Marriage. I am not allowing political ideology to get in the way of anything. None of these beliefs are against Church Doctrine.

Civil unions are legal between same sex partners in most parts of the US, but it is wrong to call them “marraige”. It seems to support something that is not.

Marriage is instituted by God. Society can make rules around it, but they cannot change what God has made.

 

[Gia_B]

Here’s what I’m getting from all this, Maria. You’re wrong, you don’t want to admit it and you would rather deflect the blame and play the victim.
They aren’t objecting because your transsexual. They are objecting because you won’t accept the Church’s teachings. It doesn’t matter if you don’t teach about sexual morality. If you reject the Church’s teachings on abortion and homosexual “marriage”, then it is entirely possible that you could reject other aspects of the faith. (I’m not saying that you do. I’m saying that it’s a reasonable concern.)

 

[guanophore]

If you reject the Church’s teachings on abortion and homosexual “marriage”, then it is entirely possible that you could reject other aspects of the faith. (I’m not saying that you do. I’m saying that it’s a reasonable concern.)

She also apparently rejects the teaching on infallibility.

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

Here’s what I’m getting from all this, Maria. You’re wrong, you don’t want to admit it and you would rather deflect the blame and play the victim.
They aren’t objecting because your transsexual. They are objecting because you won’t accept the Church’s teachings. It doesn’t matter if you don’t teach about sexual morality. If you reject the Church’s teachings on abortion and homosexual “marriage”, then it is entirely possible that you could reject other aspects of the faith. (I’m not saying that you do. I’m saying that it’s a reasonable concern.)

I am going to play nice guy and PARTIALLY defend Maria here. She says she was actually physically attacked or accosted. People usually are not physically confronted for dissenting from Church doctrine, so it is more likely that she was attacked for sexual reasons. In that regard, she was a victim and has a legitimate gripe.

But, putting that issue aside, there is still no excuse for Maria, as a Catholic, to reject Church teaching on same-sex unions, infallibility and abortion. So she IS wrong on that score for sure.

 

[sambos671]

I haven’t read this entire thread. However, Maria you’ve claimed not to done anything agianst Catholic Teaching. So what do you mean when you say you are Transexual? Are you a guy who wears women’s Clothes( or vice versa) or have you had an operation? If its the prior is this something you do privately or in public? You have a boyfriend and are you engaged in relationship of an intimate manner? It seems that maybe you have done something agianst Catholic Teaching but I don’t know and can’t judge until you explain what it is.

On another point of interest that has to do with this thread. I grew up in a Catholic Family that attended Mass etc… Yet my mother is very Liberal in her POV. She see’s nothing wrong with sexual sin and thinks abortion is ok and generally “whatever you want if its right for you.” is her motto. Because of this position you cannot tell my family apart from an Atheist grouping. Also because of this I left the Catholic Church because it was prevelant in the parish. People did as they pleased even sin and God just winked at it from their perspective. How is this Catholic Teaching? It seems that there is a conserted effort to impose world values into the Church rather than the church be a shining example of morality and right living. I left the Church because I thought how is the church any better than any other group? They say don’t sin yet do frequently so they are nothing more than Hypocrites. At least an Athiest is honest and admits that their is no accountability to anyone other than themselves and that they define morals they want to live by successfully in society rather than accept God’s judgement. Thankfully, protestants introduced me to the Catholic Faith (though they didn’t know it) and I eventually returned to the Catholic church.

 

[ljubim]

No, I think she said what she meant. She feels like a woman born with a man’s body. This does not include any ambiguous genitalia.

I don’t understand about the chromosomes… but

I was physically born a woman with male genitalia and chromosomes. Also, I was not just castrated so that proper feminization could take place there were also many other medical reasons for it. I have also retained my penis because that is most likely what God wants me to do.

my understanding is that somebody born with both male and female parts is a hermaphrodite… but it’s still unclear. So,

PLEASE MARIA, are you a hermaphrodite? YES or NO?

 

[Betterave]

That is not an opinion, it is a fact backed up by medical science. There is no church teaching to the contrary.

What makes you say this? I’m pretty sure it’s not true. Do you care? It seems that you don’t. If you do, can you share your grounds for making this claim with us? You’ve also claimed that “you’re just an average girl for the most part” so why would any homosexual be interested in you, but also that you have a penis? With all due respect, you’re not in a psychologically healthy place if you can sincerely engage in that kind of delusion and denial. (The average girl does not have a penis.)

 

[Betterave]

It’s scientific fact. Look up sex in the dictionary and look up gender in the dictionary. The brain and the body are not always congruent with eachother.

I assume you didn’t answer my question because you don’t care what the Church teaches. What’s a “scientific fact”? Can I assume this is a purely naive claim? Or do you have some serious view on what constitutes a “scientific fact” that you’d care to defend?

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

I think Maria bailed out

 

[aspawloski4th]

I assume you didn’t answer my question because you don’t care what the Church teaches. What’s a “scientific fact”? Can I assume this is a purely naive claim? Or do you have some serious view on what constitutes a “scientific fact” that you’d care to defend?

First of all I have problems whith people who are anti sciece which you seem to be. Being a degreed meteorologist it would make me a phoney to start questioning science. The church has no oficial stance on transsexuality. Yes they do imply sex and gender are congruent, but in the realm of science the church can be wrong. Remember the church used to have the oficial stance the the Earth was the center of the universe also, which we have since found out is incorrect. I don’t look to the church for guide on scientific issues. I don’t consult the Holy See when I make a weathercast, I don’t consult them on whether any of my friends are transsexual. Those are not faith issues.

 

[Cosmian]

First of all, I’m not a he/she, I’m a she. Second of all, I am not broken.

You did say that you were male and female though you are more female. We are all broken and we all need to seek out the will of God with a sincere and contrite heart. The more I read of what you have to say, the more it appears to me that you are deeply conflicted. That is my opinion on the matter and I will continue to pray for you.

 

[sambos671]

First of all I have problems whith people who are anti sciece which you seem to be. Being a degreed meteorologist it would make me a phoney to start questioning science. The church has no oficial stance on transsexuality. Yes they do imply sex and gender are congruent, but in the realm of science the church can be wrong. Remember the church used to have the oficial stance the the Earth was the center of the universe also, which we have since found out is incorrect. I don’t look to the church for guide on scientific issues. I don’t consult the Holy See when I make a weathercast, I don’t consult them on whether any of my friends are transsexual. Those are not faith issues.

What is meant by “transexual”? And how in this case is it different than “Hermapherdite”?

I accept this because of sin our biology can be messed up. People can be born with two sexual organs. Hormones may be imbalanced. However, the church is clear on its members sexuality. Men and women were made for each other. People who find themselves either attracted to the same sex as they are or who are confused about their sexuallity are not to practice this behavior. They are encouraged rather to maintain self disciplined and submit their urges under the soverignty of Jesus Christ. A man wishing to be a woman should not dress as a woman (scriptural prohibition of being effeminate). Men who are attracted to other men (and for women too) should submit their sexual urges to christ and remain single living for Christ rather than promoting this behavior in their lives. Hermapherdites should be taken on a case by case basis. Some lean towards their male side other towards their female side.

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

First of all I have problems whith people who are anti sciece which you seem to be…

As a Catholic you should be more concerned with Catholics being anti-Church-Doctrine

 

[aspawloski4th]

As a Catholic you should be more concerned with Catholics being anti-Church-Doctrine

What I am adressing in not officially a church doctrine. When the pope was speaking on it it was just opinion. He was not speaking ex-cathedra.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

When the pope was speaking on WHAT? (gender, contraception?)

And a point to consider: The pope is not ONLY infallible when he speaks ex cathedra. The charism of infallibility is not limited to ex cathedra statements.

 

[Betterave]

First of all I have problems whith people who are anti sciece which you seem to be. Being a degreed meteorologist it would make me a phoney to start questioning science. The church has no oficial stance on transsexuality. Yes they do imply sex and gender are congruent, but in the realm of science the church can be wrong. Remember the church used to have the oficial stance the the Earth was the center of the universe also, which we have since found out is incorrect. I don’t look to the church for guide on scientific issues. I don’t consult the Holy See when I make a weathercast, I don’t consult them on whether any of my friends are transsexual. Those are not faith issues.

The fact that I don’t accept naive claims about alleged ‘scientific facts’ makes me anti-science? That’s obviously wrong, isn’t it? Aren’t you the anti-science one? Science is supposed to be rigorous; you seem to be advocating carelessness and scientific fideism. I have a science degree too, not that that’s relevant; and your being a meteorologist is not relevant to whether or not you have a naive view of what constitutes a “scientific fact” - that is a philosophical issue.

You don’t look to the Church for guidance on scientific issues, okay, that’s fine provided we take the term “scientific issues” narrowly enough; but you also shouldn’t look to the dictionary for guidance on moral issues.

 

[Betterave]

When the pope was speaking on WHAT? (gender, contraception?)

And a point to consider: The pope is not ONLY infallible when he speaks ex cathedra. The charism of infallibility is not limited to ex cathedra statements.

You mean we’re supposed to listen to the pope even when he hasn’t specifically prefaced his comments with the phrase “I infallibly declare…”?