Warned about abuse, Vatican failed to defrock priest [NYT]

[Rence]

The shepherds were *definitely *more important than the sheep. These cases were managed quietly, in secret, simply by moving the perps around–in this case to another parish with more contact with children. The entire focus was on avoiding scandal–not on those abused. This in itself is shameful.

Although a priest’s fornication with a consenting adult female is deplorable, it is not nearly as heinous as abusing children, who, by law, cannot legally consent, as long as they are underage. It is tantamount to rape, with equally devastating psychological results. It may be that adolescents were titillated by the prospect of doing something ‘bad’ with a priest, and didn’t need to be ‘forced’ into doing what was wanted, but this in no way mitigates the crime.

Even if the shepherds were considered more important than the sheep, it would have been to their benefit to RESOLVE the problems, even if it was done quietly. They have created such a huge mess. There would have been no “controversy” if they would have removed the priest from the public permanantly, instead of just move them around to hurt more children. They could have dealt with this quietly while doing right by the victim, and by securing the predator. They choose not to. Well, now they have to fix it.

 

[whatevergirl]

The shepherds were *definitely *more important than the sheep. These cases were managed quietly, in secret, simply by moving the perps around–in this case to another parish with more contact with children. The entire focus was on avoiding scandal–not on those abused. This in itself is shameful.

Although a priest’s fornication with a consenting adult female is deplorable, it is not nearly as heinous as abusing children, who, by law, cannot legally consent, as long as they are underage. It is tantamount to rape, with equally devastating psychological results. It may be that adolescents were titillated by the prospect of doing something ‘bad’ with a priest, and didn’t need to be ‘forced’ into doing what was wanted, but this in no way mitigates the crime.

Anyone alive who knew about this in our hierarchy, and did nothing…(there would need to be an investigation of course) should step down. You should not be permitted to hold a position in the clergy, if you have commited crimes against children. It’s outrageous to me, but if we started taking action LIKE THAT, maybe the Church wouldn’t be mocked and torn to bits in the media. We just keep writing checks to the victims, which if a good thing and understandable, and necessary–but we need to go beyond that. Anyone who knew about crimes against kids and had a hand in those priests being permitted to carry on such atrocities elsewhere, should be required to step down. I don’t care how far that ends up going…it’s wrong that someone can hold a position within our clergy, who was responsible for either perpetrating or enabling priests to perpetrate abuse against kids in various other parishes, once discovered. God forgives, and so should we. But, there needs to be justice for those who were abused that goes beyond money. (

 

[Mattapoisett64]

I fear this is not going to end well. This one case seems so clear-cut, the media will make it their “smoking gun.” Coupled with Ireland, Germany, Brazil . . . . Cardinal Law appears to have been in good company.

 

[anode]

Even if the shepherds were considered more important than the sheep, it would have been to their benefit to RESOLVE the problems, even if it was done quietly. They have created such a huge mess. There would have been no “controversy” if they would have removed the priest from the public permanantly, instead of just move them around to hurt more children. They could have dealt with this quietly while doing right by the victim, and by securing the predator. They choose not to. Well, now they have to fix it.

His bishop ( or whatever clergical instrument was necessary) should have have defrocked him, then and there, when the abuses came to light. I think that this is the difference between how the RCC and the Protestant denominations have handled this sort of thing. Protestant ministers are thrown out, as are teachers, youth ministers, etc. after being charged by the law, if the abuses come to light. By treating the abusers in silence, and incompetently at that, the RCC has reaped a whirlwind.

In the US, two BILLION has been paid out in sex abuse cases.

 

[spn82756]

No, he can’t by the seal of confession. But, if that raped woman says that she was raped, and tells who the rapist was, should anyone else report him for the crime?

Is not making good on your sins part of penance where possible? It seems as though while the priest cannot disclose the confession…he could make part of the penance going to the authorities. Couldn’t he?

 

[spn82756]

Yet another example of how far journalism has degenerated - it is really quite sad.

They want to smear Pope Benedict XVI because his office did not put a dying, professedly repentant man on a trial where he could not defend himself due to infirmity. They don’t bother to mention that civil judiciaries do the same thing all the time. They also bury in the back of the article the fact that civil charges were dropped against this priest.

Their outrage is selective, hypocritical, and ignorant. Works like this demean the value of the written word.

• Marty Lund

HUH?
**

 

[whatevergirl]

I fear this is not going to end well. This one case seems so clear-cut, the media will make it their “smoking gun.” Coupled with Ireland, Germany, Brazil . . . . Cardinal Law appears to have been in good company.

*The media is reporting facts. Yes, the Catholic Church is taking front and center stage, but don’t blame the media for that. Our priests should be held to higher standards…yes, they’re human, but this is out of hand, these abuse cases! It’s not a couple here and there, there are allegations WORLDWIDE…it’s not the media’s fault that this happened, it’s those who let it happen within The Church. I’m a devout Catholic, but I cannot defend the actions that have taken place against kids. There is no defense. We are prolife, we are to look out for kids, this paints a picture that we are hypocrits. *

 

[spn82756]

Yet another example of how far journalism has degenerated - it is really quite sad.

They want to smear Pope Benedict XVI because his office did not put a dying, professedly repentant man on a trial where he could not defend himself due to infirmity. They don’t bother to mention that civil judiciaries do the same thing all the time. They also bury in the back of the article the fact that civil charges were dropped against this priest.

Their outrage is selective, hypocritical, and ignorant. Works like this demean the value of the written word.

• Marty Lund

What if it was your 6 year old boy that was abused? Would you still say this?

 

[serrevin]

“Anyone who knew about crimes against kids and had a hand in those priests being permitted to carry on such atrocities elsewhere, should be required to step down.”

you do realize that you’re calling for the defrocking/stepping down of the pope himself as he was directly involved in the covering up and did absoltuely zero to stop it or bring anyone to justice. catholic justice, or state justice. he was the one who allowed mr. murphy to continue to serve as a priest with “dignity” and allowed him to be buried in priestly vestments.

so be careful what you say.

 

[Mom_of_5]

If airing the

The airing of the sexual sins of our priests and the cover-up by their superiors is beyond disgusting. I attended Catholic school for twelve years and was terrified to let a boyfriend kiss me or hold my hand because it might be a “mortal sin”. We (at least us girls) were taught that if a boy raped a girl it was her fault, she must have done something to entice him. Boys didn’t have to use self-control, us girls had to provide that. Now, what could little children have possibly done to entice the “big-boy priests”??? Sorry, I truly believe that the Pope was aware of the abuse. This was a time of secrecy in the church and only the “good and holy” could show forth. The bad and the ugly kept growing from within, it had to surface, it got too big to keep the curtain pulled over it. I would respect the Pope if he came out and admitted his wrong-doings along with the others who were involved in the cover-up.

The priests were not the only molesters. My aunt left the convent after many years. She was falsely acused of sexual sins by her mother superior. The nuns were abused by those in power, much sadness behind those brick , ivy covered walls. The convents are nearly non-existant for good reason.

Love and peace,
Mom of 5

 

[whatevergirl]

“Anyone who knew about crimes against kids and had a hand in those priests being permitted to carry on such atrocities elsewhere, should be required to step down.”

you do realize that you’re calling for the defrocking/stepping down of the pope himself as he was directly involved in the covering up and did absoltuely zero to stop it or bring anyone to justice. catholic justice, or state justice. he was the one who allowed mr. murphy to continue to serve as a priest with “dignity” and allowed him to be buried in priestly vestments.

so be careful what you say.

*This has nothing to do with the man who was dying…he should have been defrocked right when it was taking place. I agree that putting an old, dying man through a trial would be…cruel, for lack of a better word. But, Catholic priests are not above the law, are they? If these priests were say not priests, and were mailmen…and hurt kids…would they have been sent to different mail routes? Would we have a different sense of outrage? Just because someone is part of the clergy, doesn’t make him above the law. Unless we should start opening up all the prison doors up, and letting all violent criminals, and other child abusers out onto the streets…because, we shouldn’t judge anyone. It’s not about judging as to condemn…I nor you nor anyone can do that, only God can. But, Catholic priests shouldn’t be held to different legal standards than you and me. Seems to me, that is what has happened. I have read about one priest who stood trial, went to prison and was murdered in prison, which was horrible that they put him in general pop…but, that’s besides the point. He was the only one (the famous case out of Boston, his name escapes me) who went on trial…that I know of. *

 

[serrevin]

look i’m in total agreement with you its just that this issue has been going on for years and if anyone doubts that the highest levels of the magesterium didn’t know about it, they’re delusional.
the scriptures do tell us to judge those within the church (1cor5) and that those who commit gross sexual sin should be disciplined severely so you may say that putting the man up there would have been 'cruel" but wouldn’t that serve as an example of deterrence? namely “if they will drag an old man almost dead to account, i better get my act together b/c the same will happen to me?” I don’t understand why we’re worried about cruelty to people who are literally destroying the bodies and souls of precious children.

 

[RobbyS]

Yet another example of how far journalism has degenerated - it is really quite sad.

They want to smear Pope Benedict XVI because his office did not put a dying, professedly repentant man on a trial where he could not defend himself due to infirmity. They don’t bother to mention that civil judiciaries do the same thing all the time. They also bury in the back of the article the fact that civil charges were dropped against this priest.

Their outrage is selective, hypocritical, and ignorant. Works like this demean the value of the written word.

• Marty Lund

These journalists, sadly, are encouraged by members of the Church who hate the Pope. They hate him because he opposes their heretical version of Christianity.

 

[masondoggy]

Just where is all of the outrage at the civil authorities for dropping the charges against this priest?

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

There is a difference between repenting of a sin, and dealing administratively with a priest who is unfit to live as a priest, or frankly, to die as a priest.

I think, frankly, that Ratzinger’s fault is the natural revulsion we all feel when considering these matters. He was also charitable in granting the dying man’s request. But he was charitable to a fault. In every aspect of life, our actions have consequences. This priest should never have dared ask what he did ask for, and Ratzinger should never have granted his request.

Does this diminish Ratzinger’s status as pope? Perhaps.

I do not quite have the words to express my loathing for what this man did

But, he did repent and therefore the Church has to accept him

What would happen if a man who has raped a woman, later truly regrets his actions and confesses to a priest and repents? What should the priest do? Report him to the secular authorities?

No, this is not a rhetorical question. I just do not know what the answer is

 

[Porcupine]

“Anyone who knew about crimes against kids and had a hand in those priests being permitted to carry on such atrocities elsewhere, should be required to step down.”

you do realize that you’re calling for the defrocking/stepping down of the pope himself as he was directly involved in the covering up and did absoltuely zero to stop it or bring anyone to justice. catholic justice, or state justice. he was the one who allowed mr. murphy to continue to serve as a priest with “dignity” and allowed him to be buried in priestly vestments.

so be careful what you say.

What are *you *saying? That the pope, if he’s found to be complicit, should be beyond the reach of this thing? If he played a part in covering up abuse, he *should *step down.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

I believe you need to separate the outrage from the facts. This is the second case that touches on Joseph Ratzinger. This, far more than the Munich case, calls into question his ability to deal with the new allegations coming from Ireland, Germany, Holland, Brazil and who knows what other country.

Yet another example of how far journalism has degenerated - it is really quite sad.

They want to smear Pope Benedict XVI because his office did not put a dying, professedly repentant man on a trial where he could not defend himself due to infirmity. They don’t bother to mention that civil judiciaries do the same thing all the time. They also bury in the back of the article the fact that civil charges were dropped against this priest.

Their outrage is selective, hypocritical, and ignorant. Works like this demean the value of the written word.

• Marty Lund

 

[RobbyS]

look i’m in total agreement with you its just that this issue has been going on for years and if anyone doubts that the highest levels of the magesterium didn’t know about it, they’re delusional.
the scriptures do tell us to judge those within the church (1cor5) and that those who commit gross sexual sin should be disciplined severely so you may say that putting the man up there would have been 'cruel" but wouldn’t that serve as an example of deterrence? namely “if they will drag an old man almost dead to account, i better get my act together b/c the same will happen to me?” I don’t understand why we’re worried about cruelty to people who are literally destroying the bodies and souls of precious children.

You may have no doubts but you also have no knowledge. I have no doubts that President Obama has the exact same views about the United States as his former pastor. But I have no real knowledge of this. Other explanation of his actions are just as likely.

 

[whatevergirl]

look i’m in total agreement with you its just that this issue has been going on for years and if anyone doubts that the highest levels of the magesterium didn’t know about it, they’re delusional.
the scriptures do tell us to judge those within the church (1cor5) and that those who commit gross sexual sin should be disciplined severely so you may say that putting the man up there would have been 'cruel" but wouldn’t that serve as an example of deterrence? namely “if they will drag an old man almost dead to account, i better get my act together b/c the same will happen to me?” I don’t understand why we’re worried about cruelty to people who are literally destroying the bodies and souls of precious children.

Yes, I agree…I don’t know what else to say, I’m literally speechless… not what you said here, lol…just this whole entire thing. It has me ill. It has me especially sad for those who are good and pious priests who are honest as the day is long, and get a weird look from someone as they walk down the street. Praying that our beloved Church will never ever let this happen again, and if it does, those in authority will not permit it to go on.

 

[Paul1961]

“Anyone who knew about crimes against kids and had a hand in those priests being permitted to carry on such atrocities elsewhere, should be required to step down.”

you do realize that you’re calling for the defrocking/stepping down of the pope himself as he was directly involved in the covering up and did absoltuely zero to stop it or bring anyone to justice. catholic justice, or state justice. he was the one who allowed mr. murphy to continue to serve as a priest with “dignity” and allowed him to be buried in priestly vestments.

so be careful what you say.

Yes. Even the pope. And every Cardinal, Bishop and Priest that was complicit.
“I was just following orders” was not acceptable at Neuremburg and it should not be acceptable now.