Warnings about Harry Potter

[GW]

The reason HP is an enigma to christians is this: the magic on display is NOT the kind that’s possible to imitate; there are pagan magic rituals which can be imitated in our world, such as Wicca; and the characters exhibit many traditional notions of virtue and loyalty and heroism and such.

So, that presents real frustration for the christian.

If the characters were space travelers, no one would think HP was controversial. In fact, they’d roundly support it.

 

[njmama]

It’s true that there isn’t exactly “redemption” in the Dark materials series - he suggests, I would say, that we have to provide our own redemption - that moral choices are something we need to take responsibility for ourselves, and that is what it is to be human. Certainly I would not say he is down on virtue - the heroes in the book are really asked to be heroic, and give of themselves for others, including giving everything they have - their life, the possibility of romantic love, etc. He seems to see good and evil as existing outside of the individual, rather than created by the individual.

Harry Potter talks about good and evil, but with rather less depth I would say. Maybe a little more than Dan Brown. Would you say that Harry finds redemption in something like god, or in himself?

Well since you asked, at the very least Harry’s redemption is a communal effort, in my opinion, and we could assume all sorts of things about Harry’s religious beliefs since Rowling is not specific. But that’s just it-- while Pullman presents secular humanism as the thrust of his novels, Rowling leaves her story a bit more open. Which, to go back to the original point you made, is why I’d rather my children read Harry Potter than His Dark Materials (Pullman’s just a bit too narrow, too much of a scientific fundamentalist for me, but perhaps that’s why you are a fan?).

Nice debating bluegoat, lots to think of while I’m enjoying the movie this Friday with DH and a few friends…

 

[Bluegoat]

Well since you asked, at the very least Harry’s redemption is a communal effort, in my opinion, and we could assume all sorts of things about Harry’s religious beliefs since Rowling is not specific. But that’s just it-- while Pullman presents secular humanism as the thrust of his novels, Rowling leaves her story a bit more open. Which, to go back to the original point you made, is why I’d rather my children read Harry Potter than His Dark Materials (Pullman’s just a bit too narrow, too much of a scientific fundamentalist for me, but perhaps that’s why you are a fan?).

Nice debating bluegoat, lots to think of while I’m enjoying the movie this Friday with DH and a few friends…

Hmm, I don’t think anyone would describe me as a scientific fundamentalist. Maybe something like a Thomist?

It’s probably not fair in a way to compare the two series, as I think HP is directed at rather younger readers. A better comparison would be the Narnia works or the Wrinkle in Time series - any child that can read HP should be able to tackle those.

 

[Joe_5859]

Except the pope’s earlier comments were taken way out of context. He has never spoken on Harry Potter one way or the other.

 

[njmama]

Hmm, I don’t think anyone would describe me as a scientific fundamentalist. Maybe something like a Thomist?

It’s probably not fair in a way to compare the two series, as I think HP is directed at rather younger readers. A better comparison would be the Narnia works or the Wrinkle in Time series - any child that can read HP should be able to tackle those.

Oh, I didn’t say you were dear, I said Pullman was. And its funny you mention Thomism as that’s what prompted my deeper reading of Potter to begin with. But there are many kinds of Thomists, even those who don’t believe in God, so there are certainly those that won’t enjoy Rowling’s work in the end.

Not a big deal though, I won’t defend the books to the death, just believe there is more to them then some are willing to see. I enjoyed Thomas Hibbs’ insights into the last book as an example of what can be seen in them.

 

[SaltySirena]

If the characters were space travelers, no one would think HP was controversial. In fact, they’d roundly support it.

:clapping: Exactly!

 

[Brooklyn]

I know no one on this thread is the least interested in what I have to say because I’m not a Harry Potter fan, but if you look at my posts, you will note that nowhere do I state any personal opinions about the books or movies other than to quote what exorcists of the Catholic Church, priests who literally face Satan day after day, have said about the Harry Potter series and the warnings they have given. That was my sole purpose for starting this thread.

Nonetheless, to say that the Vatican endorses the Harry Potter movie is incorrect. It is the Vatican newspaper that endorses the movie, the same newspaper that has stated that Barack Obama is not a radical pro-abortion president. I personally put no weight on anything that L’Osservatore Romano has to say.

Mary

 

[SaltySirena]

Wow, Brooklyn, we finally agree on something!

I guess journalists are raging liberals, soft peddling their own pet people and causes, no matter where they live and write.

 

[Miles_Mariae]

The reason HP is an enigma to christians is this: the magic on display is NOT the kind that’s possible to imitate; there are pagan magic rituals which can be imitated in our world, such as Wicca; and the characters exhibit many traditional notions of virtue and loyalty and heroism and such.

After waving a wand around and having no sparks, most kids would probably give up. Those with more imagination? I’m not sure. Potions seems imitable, and potentially dangerous. Divination is made out to be a joke, although astrology not so much.

If the characters were space travelers, no one would think HP was controversial. In fact, they’d roundly support it.

Absolutely. If it were set in Middle-Earth, I would really have little to say about it. The only danger I note in this series is that it’s set in the real world.

 

[SaltySirena]

Divination is made out to be a joke, although astrology not so much.

But astrology is part of Divination in the books. Trelawny has them do star charts of their births, and tells Harry he must have been born under the “baleful influence of Saturn.”

Astronomy is one of their more serious subjects… and surely you have no problem with that?

 

[Miles_Mariae]

But astrology is part of Divination in the books. Trelawny has them do star charts of their births, and tells Harry he must have been born under the “baleful influence of Saturn.”

Astronomy is one of their more serious subjects… and surely you have no problem with that?

You will have to forgive my imprecision on this subject and try to understand the reasoning for my criticisms. I’m not the type to rant about this stuff or get obsessed over it, but I just wanted to express my worry that some of those things like potions are too easily imitable. Also, the astrology class that the students have with the centaur (who is portrayed as wise and strong) puts astrology in too much of a positive light.

Sister, I hope that you quote Scripture with the same ease and defend the Faith with the same zeal that you exhibit here. If at least that is the case, then I am glad. All the best.

 

[SaltySirena]

Sister, I hope that you quote Scripture with the same ease and defend the Faith with the same zeal that you exhibit here. If at least that is the case, then I am glad. All the best.

Man, am I getting tired of these sidelong comments about how I am a bad Christian, or neglecting my faith, because I speak out against the ridiculosity people heap upon the Harry Potter stories.

Harry Potter is important to me, OK? There, I said it. I am an avid reader, and any story that gives me as much enjoyment as the Harry Potter books is going to become precious to me. I feel the same way about The Red Tent by Anita Diamant, several Anne Rice books (yes, yes, now I know you’re all swooning… I must be a pagan if I like Anne Rice!), many Arthur C. Clarke books (that raging atheist?! shocking). I could go on and on. Books are like people to me… the best ones become good friends. So yes, I get passionate in their defense. And before anyone tells me to seek help, yes I have human friends, family, a devoted spouse and children who love me. I am not some hermit who only communes with books.

Now, I know the Bible well. I don’t go around quoting chapter and verse, and have to look things up. I could improve my knowledge of Scripture… but so can anyone. The RE director at my church thought I was OK enough to lead Scripture discussions with the sixth graders last year, so, I must not be that lackadaisical of a Catholic. But in discussing the Bible, I can usually tell you what it says on a certain topic and find the citation when I want it.

I also have stood up for my faith, publicly and privately. I don’t allow my non-Catholic family members to get away with anti-Catholic bigotry in my presence. How many of *you *have the backbone to tell your own father, or his wife, to knock it off when it needs saying? Hmmmmm? I remember one “evangelizing” discussion I had in a cafeteria kitchen with a friend/coworker in college. He knew I was Catholic and asked me some stuff. I did my best to explain. I made a good impression upon him of Catholics that night. I don’t know what he ever did with that, but at least I know that if someone told him all Catholics were hateful bastards, he had that night to know that no, we all aren’t. I also told off a guy in my workplace for loudly disparaging the Catholic Church, and people “stupid enough” to be religious at all.

I really don’t understand why one thing has to mean anything about the other. Yeah, I love my Harry Potter books. And I love my faith too. I don’t understand why you people think they are mutually exclusive. What inadequacy in you causes you to have to repeatedly accuse someone of neglecting Christ just because they like and enjoy something you don’t?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Absolutely. If it were set in Middle-Earth, I would really have little to say about it. The only danger I note in this series is that it’s set in the real world.

You can easily deal with that by taking into account just how many fictional stories out there that are set in what appears to be our ‘real world’. It only mirrors the stuff that already exists but adds impossible elements.I mean you don’t really believe Gotham City or Batman are real do you? :ehh:

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I’m not the type to rant about this stuff or get obsessed over it, but I just wanted to express my worry that some of those things like potions are too easily imitable.

You know that pretty much goes the same for cartoony mad scientists? :whacky: Cartoons like Dexter’s Lab have a ton of potion mixing too.

Also, the astrology class that the students have with the centaur (who is portrayed as wise and strong) puts astrology in too much of a positive light.

Really? I read that part and actually couldn’t get a single word in Firenze’s monologues.

Even McGonagall’s lectures were more interesting. :\

 

[Litcrit]

After waving a wand around and having no sparks, most kids would probably give up. Those with more imagination? I’m not sure.

…

The only danger I note in this series is that it’s set in the real world.

But any kid who doesn’t have an owl deliver a letter saying they’re invited to Hogwarts by the time they’re 11 *knows *he’s not a wizard It’s a talent one is born with, not something you can learn or will into existence.

 

[4everjustjesus]

Here is my take on the matter: Almost everything you can think of in our world has the potential for good or for evil. The Harry Potter books also have the potential for good or for evil.

If the book is read as an allegory, the book can be a powerful tool for good. If it is taken at face value (and you believe that the Harry Potter world is real), then it can be a tool for evil, drawing those poor misguided individuals who are attracted to the occult.

Detractors often miss the core struggle of the novels, the battle of good against evil. The books portray real evil in its villains, and real Good in its protagonists. Read as an allegory, Magic can be seen as representative of one’s gifts or talents, and the boy wizard, Harry, though untrained, defeats the evil and self-serving wizard Voldemort by means of the most powerful magic of all: Love. Good wins over evil. This is the core theme of the novel and the allegory operates in much the same way as in Tolkien and in the books of C.S. Lewis.

Peace and Blessings,
Terrysa

Way to go Terrysa!!! I agree. I also don’t agree with young children reading the books because thye tend to take it at face value as said before. I know of a few kids who have completely turned against Jesus because of the books. I know, “what harm can it do, when they get older, they’ll begin to have some sense.” But no, books like these WILL leave a lasting impression on young minds. Meanwhile, if it’s a teenager, they can understand (or not ) that the book is false, though the occult is real, etc.

God Bless!
4everjustjesus

 

[4everjustjesus]

But any kid who doesn’t have an owl deliver a letter saying they’re invited to Hogwarts by the time they’re 11 *knows *he’s not a wizard It’s a talent one is born with, not something you can learn or will into existence.

haha

 

[Brooklyn]

Wow, Brooklyn, we finally agree on something!

Just to repeat, I did not post my opinions about Harry Potter, but those of official exorcists in the Catholic Church. So it’s not me that you are disagreeing with, but with priests who literally come face to face with real life demons. They are the ones who warn against Harry Potter.

Mary

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Just to repeat, I did not post my opinions about Harry Potter, but those of official exorcists in the Catholic Church. So it’s not me that you are disagreeing with, but with priests who literally come face to face with real life demons. They are the ones who warn against Harry Potter.

Mary

I have read about these priests just as much as you have but have never found any convincing evidence.

 

[Brooklyn]

I have read about these priests just as much as you have but have never found any convincing evidence.

I cannot speak for you or anyone else, but I tend to believe those who have real life experience with demons. What would it take to convince you?

Mary