Warnings about Harry Potter

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Well, chacun a son gout and all that.

I personally find quite a bit that I don’t care for in the H.P. series but for those who enjoy it, maybe they’re more skillful than I am in finding ‘pearls’, not just in this book series, but in other books, in other situations, etc.

We’re all different. Now, I think that a lot of us have faced, oh let’s say unrequited love.

Now, before we faced it, we probably loved all the stories in which unrequited love was treated. Before we faced it ourselves, if the story line was treated ‘humorously’ we probably found it amusing. If it was treated sympathatically, we probably found it sympathetic.

But once we did face it, the way that we reacted to it changed. If we were the ones who inspired someone’s crush (and we didn’t return the feeling), and then we read a story where unrequited love was treated as a joke, we probably wouldn’t think it was all that funny. If it was treated such that in the end, the love was actually ‘requited’, we’d probably feel nauseated or upset. And if the person who was ‘crushed on’ was treated as a nasty tease, we’d be infuriated. . .because that person was ‘us’.

And it might take a long time before we became ‘impartial’ enough to read about the situation and not take it ‘personally.’

Same thing with HP. There are lots of situations and lots of moral judgments etc. throughout the books.

The more a person shares the point of view of Ms. Rowling, the more he or she will like the book. Ms. Rowling in her opinions on good and evil is pretty much in line with the average Protestant Christian contemporary Western point of view. Much of that view is admirable. But in several areas much is at least problematic, and some of it is downright wrong.

To me, the areas where she goes ‘wrong’ fundamentally upset the balance of the book and the storyline itself. And it just gets ‘worse’ with each book. When I read the first, the magical idea of Hogwarts, the train, the wizarding world etc., were just starting to be ‘laid out’ and the protagonists at 11 were so young that one could look at various incidents in the book with a slightly ‘ambiguous’ or ‘problematic’ focus and think, “well, obviously as the books go on, we’ll see these dealt with and it will be shown WHY the decision made here and here, which were ‘applauded’ at ages 12 or 14, were not really that good and as the heroes age they’ll look back and say that they should have done X instead, because with age will come experience and wisdom.”

And when instead of those areas being understood more clearly and the moral ‘ewws’ addressed, the heroes actually started being even ‘worse’ morally and the ‘applause’ for the moral wrongs was more pronounced, as I said, the balance ‘toppled’ and even the totally enjoyable things like the descriptions of the country and all the cool ‘trappings’ and things like Quiddich couldn’t be seen outside the really ‘off’ morality. For me, anyway. As I said, I’m probably not as skilled in being able to divorce the ‘fun’ of a story from its moral underpinnings.
 
I have read the books (and now seen the movies that are out). But I have never been a huge fan. 🤷 I found the story line from book to book too repetitive. It seemed like each book had the same plot structure as the last. However, I could see how some readers enjoy this and like it because it lends a kind of continuity to the books.

As far as the “bad morals,” to me it didn’t seem any worse than any other “coming of age” story. I liked the earlier books better than the later books. The turning point for me was the Order of the Phoenix. HP got whinny, belligerent, and, annoying. Maybe I was too old when I read it, but I could not appreciate that sort of character development. 😉 (Though obviously some teenagers go through phases like that, the Lord knows some of my siblings did :D).

But no I don’t think that HP is any special doorway to the occult. Indeed, there are a lot of other books which present what I think are much worse pictures of morality (as a poster mentioned above).
 
I didn’t watch* The Road Warrior* expecting to learn safe rules of the road. Why would anyone expect a morality lesson from HP?
 
I used to read the Harry Potter books a lot… lately, I’m not as interested in them as before, partly because of the witchcraft. The new movie is coming out and I guess I’ll see it because my family will be seeing it - they want to, though they’ve never read the books, they just want to find out what happens next - but I’m more excited about the Narnia movie that’s coming out in December. 🙂
 
The turning point for me was the Order of the Phoenix. HP got whinny, belligerent, and, annoying. Maybe I was too old when I read it, but I could not appreciate that sort of character development. 😉 (Though obviously some teenagers go through phases like that, the Lord knows some of my siblings did :D).
.
What is funnier is that after reading that book, it gave me insight into why my own brother was so crabby:p I would think many teens around that age go through similar ages, and it can be somewhat cathartic to read. I remember reading it thinking “well, no wonder!”
 
What is funnier is that after reading that book, it gave me insight into why my own brother was so crabby:p I would think many teens around that age go through similar ages, and it can be somewhat cathartic to read. I remember reading it thinking “well, no wonder!”
Did he climb the biggest tree in the elf forest and blow his magic whistle three times at midnight?
 
Lol if only, that would have made life so much more interesting!

No, he was actually rather moody, dark, snippy, and had a tone with everyone. There was a lot of scowling too. I learned to quickly walk by his room and not look in. LOL.

Thankfully my brother is now in his early 20’s and is more upbeat.
 
And when instead of those areas being understood more clearly and the moral ‘ewws’ addressed, the heroes actually started being even ‘worse’ morally and the ‘applause’ for the moral wrongs was more pronounced, as I said, the balance ‘toppled’ and even the totally enjoyable things like the descriptions of the country and all the cool ‘trappings’ and things like Quiddich couldn’t be seen outside the really ‘off’ morality. For me, anyway. As I said, I’m probably not as skilled in being able to divorce the ‘fun’ of a story from its moral underpinnings.
Well when I’m engaged in literary criticism, I try not to read too much into whatever moral underpinnings there (if such things actually existed in the story). Sure there can be the fuzzy sermon or a reinforcement of a belief you held prior to reading but other than that, shouldn’t books like Harry Potter serve mainly to entertain and not really teach people?

I mean come on, it’s not the Bible. Why dig too deeply? Just enjoy the story for what it is: a decent piece of fiction and a work of art. 🙂

Besides, at the least its better than Twilight (even when I’m not sure it’s saying much :o).
 
I don’t want a morality play in popular fiction. I’d like some insight into the human condition. For me, the best characters have been the morally ambiguous but not completely so: George MacDonald Fraser’s Harry Flashman, Le Carre’s George Smiley, Vic Mackey from The Shield, the gang from* The Wild Bunch*.
 
I listen to Orthodox Radio from time to time----it ties in somewhat with my Melkite Faith----and one of their Resident Movie Critics had a very astute reading on the “to let you or your children watch or not watch” dilemma.

To paraphrase what he said:

“I have never read the Harry Potter Books----I have neither the time nor the inclination to read them all----but I have seen the Movies and I have no problem with my children watching them. On the other hand, Atheist Phillip Pullman Of “His Dark Materials” series of Books has specifically stated that he wrote the books to ‘Destroy Christianity’------I have never read the books or seen the Movie but That is ENOUGH for me. So I would not let my children Read the Books or see the Movie (The Golden Compass) and doubtless forthcoming Movie adaptations of Phillip Pullman’s Books.”

That really ties in with my feelings. I have never read the Potter books, but I have seen the movies and have no problems with them.

Pullman, though, is an Athiest who who has stated that he is trying to push his Atheist, Anti-Religion Message in HIS series of Books and by extension, the Movie adaptations of them. Like the Orthodox reviewer, I have neither read the Books nor seen the Movie but like Him, that is ENOUGH for me. So I would not let any children I would have watch this or any other adaptation of the books.

To me, that sort of best explains what differentiates HP from other possible Fanatsy series. HP has no overt or obvious Anti-Christian message that I can see, unlike the “His Dark Materials” series of Books. 👍
 
To me, that sort of best explains what differentiates HP from other possible Fanatsy series. HP has no overt or obvious Anti-Christian message that I can see, unlike the “His Dark Materials” series of Books. 👍
A slight correction there. I would say a glaring majority of Fantasy I’ve digested don’t have much of an agenda as Pullman’s work does. As a matter of fact, one of my writing mentors told me that writers shouldn’t try to “preach morality” with their work. It just kills it and frankly, I agree. We’re artists, not moral authorities. That’s more the responsibility of apologists, priests, bishops and the Pope.
 
I can assure you that everything is better than twilight. and none of those ‘pretty-boys’ are attractive anyways.

Girls flock over them. But thats okay, they’ll grow up someday.
 
A slight correction there. I would say a glaring majority of Fantasy I’ve digested don’t have much of an agenda as Pullman’s work does. As a matter of fact, one of my writing mentors told me that writers shouldn’t try to “preach morality” with their work. It just kills it and frankly, I agree. We’re artists, not moral authorities. That’s more the responsibility of apologists, priests, bishops and the Pope.
True enough. I would also say that IF one IS going to write a “polemical, preachy” work, they should be at least overt about it in the work itself and be honest about it like Pullman is. Otherwise, it would be dishonest to those who read the work and disagree with its (hidden) message.
At least Pullman was honest about his intentions. I’m sure there are many Atheists out there and Anti-religious people that are NOT as honest and mislead people into thinking their works are one thing when they are actually not.
 
I can assure you that everything is better than twilight. and none of those ‘pretty-boys’ are attractive anyways.

Girls flock over them. But thats okay, they’ll grow up someday.
The pretty boys aren’t really my problem. I actually wouldn’t mind looking bishie myself.
It’s just the ongoing trend of making the bishie look somewhat exclusive to vampires. -.-

Come on, whatever happened to giving those looks to the fair elven men, dark rangers, or even bookish wizards? D8

Yoohoo, ladies! Vampires aren’t the only archetypes you can give 'em to! DX
 
At least Pullman was honest about his intentions. I’m sure there are many Atheists out there and Anti-religious people that are NOT as honest and mislead people into thinking their works are one thing when they are actually not.
Er, that too can be debatable. I mean it’s one thing to preach what you believe in and another to simply express said beliefs through fiction. It’s like the difference between saying, “I want you to believe this.” and “This is is what I believe.”

True such difference can be subtle at times but I generally try not to accuse authors of being in denial unless they say it themselves that they had an agenda. Perhaps its true that even expressing one’s opinion can influence folks but I do not think it is on the same level as actually propagating something.
 
Ms. Rowling in her opinions on good and evil is pretty much in line with the average Protestant Christian contemporary Western point of view. Much of that view is admirable. But in several areas much is at least problematic, and some of it is downright wrong.

To me, the areas where she goes ‘wrong’ fundamentally upset the balance of the book and the storyline itself. And it just gets ‘worse’ with each book. When I read the first, the magical idea of Hogwarts, the train, the wizarding world etc., were just starting to be ‘laid out’ and the protagonists at 11 were so young that one could look at various incidents in the book with a slightly ‘ambiguous’ or ‘problematic’ focus and think, “well, obviously as the books go on, we’ll see these dealt with and it will be shown WHY the decision made here and here, which were ‘applauded’ at ages 12 or 14, were not really that good and as the heroes age they’ll look back and say that they should have done X instead, because with age will come experience and wisdom.”

And when instead of those areas being understood more clearly and the moral ‘ewws’ addressed, the heroes actually started being even ‘worse’ morally and the ‘applause’ for the moral wrongs was more pronounced, as I said, the balance ‘toppled’ and even the totally enjoyable things like the descriptions of the country and all the cool ‘trappings’ and things like Quiddich couldn’t be seen outside the really ‘off’ morality. For me, anyway. As I said, I’m probably not as skilled in being able to divorce the ‘fun’ of a story from its moral underpinnings.
Do you really think so? I disagree. What examples did you have in mind?

I can’t say that I’m sure I disagree without knowing precisely which instances you were thinking of, but the ones that are usually brought up don’t convince me. For instance, people object to how Harry and his friends are rewarded for defying authority and breaking all the rules. But when the authority they disobey is just, they do become sorry for disobeying. And the narration portrays them as praiseworthy for their disobedience only when it is justified - such as their resistance to Dolores Umbridge in Order of the Phoenix. Heck, in Philosopher’s Stone the few points Neville earns - which win the House Cup for Gryffindor and much praise for him - are given him precisely for enforcing rules even when they need to be broken.

Another example is that some people feel the books promote an “ends justify the means” morality. But sheesh, I just saw the movie of Order of the Phoenix on TV last night, in which Dolores Umbridge - an unspeakably vile villain - is the one to explicitly state that the ends justify the means…

Anyway, in my mind, the biggest moral “eww” is Snape’s murder of Dumbledore at the latter’s request. What Dumbledore asked Snake to do is not moral. It is essentially euthanasia.

But I don’t think the series contradicts that: the deep uneasiness that a reader with good moral sensibilities will experience when (s)he discovers the true facts behind Dumbledore’s murder is part of the ingenious artistry of Deathly Hallows, in which we discover that Dumbledore is not the saint we thought he was for a variety of reasons, and in which he is ultimately contrasted with Harry - the latter being the true example of selflessness, self-surrender, self-sacrifice. It’s sometimes said that a bad author has to tell us things that a good author shows us. Deathly Hallows is the work of a good author in this regard precisely because even though the narrator needs us to see that Harry’s spiritual triumph far exceeds Dumbledore’s moral leadership, the narrator nonetheless doesn’t lecture us on the matter - rather, the narrator shows us this contrast by imparting to us - with the succinctness of a simple plot revelation - an extremely uneasy experience of Dumbledore’s request for euthanasia.

It would be a mistake to think the story arc in any way condones the manner of Dumbledore’s death. There’s a reason Harry is worthy to unite the Deathly Hallows while Dumbledore is not.

Anyway, that may not be what you had in mind at all. But I thought I’d bring it up, because there’s no bigger moral “eww” in the series than the discovery that Dumbledore asked Snape to murder him.

So in retrospect, I guess I don’t entirely disagree. The manner of Dumbledore’s death does, as you put it, “upset the balance of the book and the storyline itself” - and therein lies one aspect of the plot’s brilliant artistry.
 
Yeah I love the movies. Very well done, good character choice. Entertaining and the good always wins in the end.

Sorta like most disney movies. or well, most movies in general. 😛
 
Anyway, in my mind, the biggest moral “eww” is Snape’s murder of Dumbledore at the latter’s request. What Dumbledore asked Snake to do is not moral. It is essentially euthanasia.
I just watched this the other night. I’d have to re-read the book to pick up anything extra… but was thinking of this exact situation. Because, it LOOKS to Harry that Snape just blatently killed Dumbledore. That he’s been a faker this whole time and really is the bad guy. And of course this lends to the necessary misunderstanding 'till the very end.

But then Malfoy was supposed to kill Dumbledore. He was to do it with all those watching… And of course Snape made the agreement to help Malfoy and protect him. The unbreakable bond… LOL! (can you imagine if we just dropped dead if we broke a promise?) And it seems to me that Dumbledore knew that he was going to die that night. Being all wizardy and such. What an atrocity… but would you want a child to murder you? If you could keep that from scarring a child would you ask another, who you thought could endure, to do it instead. Since it’s going to be done? Kind of a Sophies choice. There are no good choices. Just a seemingly better one in the moment.

Needless to say, I love these stories. Maybe I’m not that sophisticated. Fine with me. I certainly don’t look to them for moral education (to say the least), and I’m pretty good at sorting out fantasy (the entire series) from reality… Just saw your comment and thought I’d throw this out there…
 
I just watched this the other night. I’d have to re-read the book to pick up anything extra… but was thinking of this exact situation. Because, it LOOKS to Harry that Snape just blatently killed Dumbledore. That he’s been a faker this whole time and really is the bad guy. And of course this lends to the necessary misunderstanding 'till the very end.

But then Malfoy was supposed to kill Dumbledore. He was to do it with all those watching… And of course Snape made the agreement to help Malfoy and protect him. The unbreakable bond… LOL! (can you imagine if we just dropped dead if we broke a promise?) And it seems to me that Dumbledore knew that he was going to die that night. Being all wizardy and such. What an atrocity… but would you want a child to murder you? If you could keep that from scarring a child would you ask another, who you thought could endure, to do it instead. Since it’s going to be done? Kind of a Sophies choice. There are no good choices. Just a seemingly better one in the moment.
Indeed, I saw the Snap/Dumbledore thing, as protecting Draco’s soul, since murder breaks the soul. 🤷 But maybe I have to go back and reread those last few books.
 
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