Warnings about Harry Potter

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Sigh, how many times does it have to be pointed out, that there are no “occult” powers in HP. The magic of HP is not magic as defined as occult or magic as defined by the bible or by Fr. Amorth. It is an innate ability, not connected with summoning or communing with demons.
Dear jilly4ski,

Cordial greetings and again thankyou for your response, but again I am afraid I must beg to differ.

It is incontrovertible that Rowling does use the symbol world of the occult as her primary metaphor, and occultic activities as the dramatic engine of her plots. Moreover, she presents these to the child reader through attractive role models, such as Harry and Hemoine, who are students of witchcraft and sorcery. This renders the Potter novels culturally unwholesome reading material for children and even adults. It is just to close for comfort to its real life counterpart.

In Potter-world the characters are engaged in activities which in real life corrupt us, weaken the will, darken the mind, and pull the practioner down into spiritual bondage. Rowling’s hereo’s and heroines go ever deeper into that world without displaying any negative side effects, only an increase in “character”. This is a lie. Moreover, it is a Satanic lie which deceived our first parents in Eden; you can have knowledge of good and evil (you will decide what is good and what is evil), you can have an enhanced life, you can have God-like powers.

Can we really “baptize” the symbols and activities of the realm of darkness without negative effects, because we are no longer the early Christians cleansing a classical pagan temple and consecrating it as a church? We are in the midst of a social revolution that is assailing the truly sacred and degrading it at every turn.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Dear jilly4ski,

Cordial greetings and again thankyou for your response, but again I am afraid I must beg to differ.

It is incontrovertible that Rowling does use the symbol world of the occult as her primary metaphor, and occultic activities as the dramatic engine of her plots. Moreover, she presents these to the child reader through attractive role models, such as Harry and Hemoine, who are students of witchcraft and sorcery. This renders the Potter novels culturally unwholesome reading material for children and even adults. It is just to close for comfort to its real life counterpart.

In Potter-world the characters are engaged in activities which in real life corrupt us, weaken the will, darken the mind, and pull the practioner down into spiritual bondage. Rowling’s hereo’s and heroines go ever deeper into that world without displaying any negative side effects, only an increase in “character”. This is a lie. Moreover, it is a Satanic lie which deceived our first parents in Eden; you can have knowledge of good and evil (you will decide what is good and what is evil), you can have an enhanced life, you can have God-like powers.

Can we really “baptize” the symbols and activities of the realm of darkness without negative effects, because we are no longer the early Christians cleansing a classical pagan temple and consecrating it as a church? We are in the midst of a social revolution that is assailing the truly sacred and degrading it at every turn.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
And can you give any actual occult symbols that occur in HP? Or maybe explain how HP and real occult practices are in any way similar? Maybe I am just not familiar enough with occult practices, but it was my understanding that in practicing the occult you called on demons and “devils,” and has nothing to do with pointing a special stick and saying the “magic words” in order to achieve ones result. None of the former happens in HP. The closest one gets would be Harry’s lessons with Snape where he is supposed to be learning to close his mind to the bad guy (ie not use this special connection that only Harry has with the bad guy).
 
It is just to close for comfort to its real life counterpart.

Portrait

Pax
Like what? There is nothing in these books that even remotely reflect real life. Ok. Well, there are humans… but that’s pretty much it.
 
And can you give any actual occult symbols that occur in HP? Or maybe explain how HP and real occult practices are in any way similar? Maybe I am just not familiar enough with occult practices, but it was my understanding that in practicing the occult you called on demons and “devils,” and has nothing to do with pointing a special stick and saying the “magic words” in order to achieve ones result. None of the former happens in HP. The closest one gets would be Harry’s lessons with Snape where he is supposed to be learning to close his mind to the bad guy (ie not use this special connection that only Harry has with the bad guy).
I am deeply involved with the “occult” and can state categorically that Harry Potter has only the vaguest similarities to what we do. We have brooms and wands in common, though for very different purposes, and some of us wear black robes (not the English academic robes of Rowling’s world, for the most part). We don’t cast spells through the use of Latin-esque phrases. It’s about as accurate a portrayal of paganism as Dan Brown’s novels are of Catholicism.
 
It’s about as accurate a portrayal of paganism as Dan Brown’s novels are of Catholicism.
:rotfl:

Kind of borrowed the from the language and some of the most well known symbols and then completely made up a story about and around them huh. 😛
 
Is this thread still going? Goodness…

As people have said…ad infinitum…HP isn’t perfect, but it’s not inherently evil. It’s a book to be read with a thoughtful conscience, just like all other works of fiction!

I will stick to re-reading Anne of Green Gables, however…re-reading the whole HP series takes too long!!

See you all at the movies this weekend! 👍
 
Well, part of what’s dragging on the thread is a discussion about whether Harry’s character (among others) was good or whether he’s actually a lesser evil.

Unfortunately, the definition of lesser evil would have covered Christ. Since Christ wielded extraordinary capabilities which he used for good, actually lost his temper a few times, broke both religious and civil laws and social restrictions. Several times either not receiving punishment or evading it.

It’s also an example of confirmation bias- folks see what they want to see, look for those items that confirm their position and discard those things that don’t. Even more difficult when folks are getting the information confirming their opinion second-hand.
 
I’ll tell you guys one thing, I’m so looking forward to this movie. I’m a huge fan of the books. And guess who got me inspired to read it as a child? A Sister from the Sisters of St. Joseph who taught religion to us youngsters in the seventh grade. I guess she didn’t find anything demonic about the series because she read it as well.🙂
 
Dear jilly4ski,

Cordial greetings and again thankyou for your response, but again I am afraid I must beg to differ.

It is incontrovertible that Rowling does use the symbol world of the occult as her primary metaphor, and occultic activities as the dramatic engine of her plots. Moreover, she presents these to the child reader through attractive role models, such as Harry and Hemoine, who are students of witchcraft and sorcery. This renders the Potter novels culturally unwholesome reading material for children and even adults. It is just to close for comfort to its real life counterpart.

In Potter-world the characters are engaged in activities which in real life corrupt us, weaken the will, darken the mind, and pull the practioner down into spiritual bondage. Rowling’s hereo’s and heroines go ever deeper into that world without displaying any negative side effects, only an increase in “character”. This is a lie. Moreover, it is a Satanic lie which deceived our first parents in Eden; you can have knowledge of good and evil (you will decide what is good and what is evil), you can have an enhanced life, you can have God-like powers.

Can we really “baptize” the symbols and activities of the realm of darkness without negative effects, because we are no longer the early Christians cleansing a classical pagan temple and consecrating it as a church? We are in the midst of a social revolution that is assailing the truly sacred and degrading it at every turn.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
What is more evil, the Harry Potter series, or the wonderful, fictional, horrible, filled with magic Fairy Tales that I loved as a child? Or the Star War series of movies?. Maybe the Potter series does reach a deeper core of belief in some than others, but I still root for Harry. It is true some could be weakened in a spiritual sense by the series. I don’t think they are an appropriate venue for young children, but then I am a retired Montessori teacher and think nothing fake should be given to children for them to mull over.
 
And can you give any actual occult symbols that occur in HP? Or maybe explain how HP and real occult practices are in any way similar? Maybe I am just not familiar enough with occult practices, but it was my understanding that in practicing the occult you called on demons and “devils,” and has nothing to do with pointing a special stick and saying the “magic words” in order to achieve ones result. None of the former happens in HP. The closest one gets would be Harry’s lessons with Snape where he is supposed to be learning to close his mind to the bad guy (ie not use this special connection that only Harry has with the bad guy).
Dear jilly4ski,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for your reply to my post.

No commentator who has written a thoughtful critique of the Potter tales has ever suggested that there is a formal religion of witchcraft as such in the novels. But how does secular culture today understand and define “spiritual”?; the immaterial, an unseen force, a power that interfaces with human existence? By this definition Potter-world is replete with religion. Moreover, it must be viewed in the context of the modern world, where materialism has, alas, blurred the lines between formal religion and spiritualities.

In the Potter books there are rituals, for example the Sorting Hat scene, in which an undefined power determines which of the four houses of Hogwarts the student witches and wizards will enter, to some extent reading each student’s character and influencing his destiny. There is an inference of supernatural gnosis here, or a hint of some higher power. There is also divination in various forms ranging from the silly to the deadly earnest. There are ghosts attached to each house, again implying access to spiritual dimensions.

Then we have the issue of the curriculum: some of the book titles in Harry’s training are appropriated from the real world of witchcraft. This is very alarming because children can google those titles on the internet and be instantly connected to a variety of sights offering them portals into the real world of witchcraft, sorcery and even overt Satanism. As Christian parent’s does all this really sit comfortably with our Catholicism and, for that matter, is it even compatible with it?

Many of the practices in the books are the same as the real thing, but they are sanitized, made to appear scary but fun, without any long-term consequences. To be fair, they do show that some activities can be physically dangerous, but the dominant message throughout is that if one has enough knowledge and skill then one can get through the dangers.

When people defend these unwholesome books by remarking that the tales disconnect witchcraft from spiritual realities, and that there really is no danger of the child wanting to go from fantasy fiction witchcraft to actual witchcraft, they are leaping to a huge conclusion devoid of emprical evidence.

It is quite true that the books appear at first glance to disconnect witchcraft from the spiritual and present it all as exciting stuff and in no way spiritually dangerous. However, herein lies the danger because it makes the Potter series potentially more corrupting by giving the child a false sense of what witchcraft is really all about.

Finally, I am quite intrigued by the way Rowling consistently portrays those characters who are critical or fearful of magic as vicious abusers or utterly ignorant. Is this an oblique authorial pre-emptive strike against any who dare criticise her work?, or perhaps an attempt to soften a child reader’s instinctive aversion to the horrible?, or to subtly override whatever cautions against witchcraft and sorcery a child may have learned from his parent’s or the Church?

The Dursley’s, for example, are utterly despicable characters and decidedly against magic. In volume 4 we learn Voldemort, the archetype of radical evil, began life as student named Riddle, whom the author informs us was abandoned by his father as child, and that his father was against magic. In short, the greatest evils, according to the narrative, have their root cause in anti-magic types!

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
I’ll tell you guys one thing, I’m so looking forward to this movie. I’m a huge fan of the books. And guess who got me inspired to read it as a child? A Sister from the Sisters of St. Joseph who taught religion to us youngsters in the seventh grade. I guess she didn’t find anything demonic about the series because she read it as well.🙂
Dear brina1416,

Cordial greetings.

You raise an interesting point when you speak of this Sister who “inspired” you to read the series and who read it herself.

It is quite true that many of those who are pro-Potter in Catholic circles are considered to be orthodox Christians. Indeed, that would be the case with the brethren here at Catholic Answers. Whist many are certainly orthodox in terms of Church doctrine, the problem for them is that the Potter phenomenom does not appear to be a doctrinal issue. The cloak of “literature” or “inculturation” has shielded the books from an examination of just how they may violate the teachings of the Church, or can lead the emerging generation closer to a violation of those teachings.

Since the Potter series is decidedly unwholesome reading material, it can hardly be considered a valuble contribution to culture. Therefore, I am indeed astounded that the Potter series of books is promoted in Christian circles, among some Catholic academics and, yes, among some Sisters and clergy as well. There are probably a number of reasons for this. Perhaps it is due to their naivete regarding the power of fantasy fiction. Possibly it is an overreliance upon individual reason as if to say “I am so intelligent, and my child is so intelligent, so do not insult that intelligence, we are quite able to enjoy that which is irrational and corrupt and remain impervious to any high moral damage it may occasion, therefore it is not really corrupt QED”.

This non sequitur is based upon the mistaken notion that the imagination can be contained within some air-tight compartment of the mind. However, I suspect, if the Potter debates that I have been involved with on these boards are anything to go by, that there is also a certain fear at work in their stubbornly resolute and not always objective reaction to any criticism of the Potter series; it is fast becoming a sort of sacred cow that no level-headed man would dare to evaluate in negative terms. Quite possibly this overreaction is caused by a supposed fear of anti-intellectualism, or even a fear against fundamentalism (not that a fundamentalist is incapable of uttering some truth now and again). Perhaps it just boils down to a fear of disapproval by friends and family and especially ones own children (who wants to be thought “mean” or “uncool”, to use modern parlance). Whatever the reasons, at the very least it is indicative of a want of understanding respecting the integral relationship between faith and culture, between imagination and the world of action.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Dear jilly4ski,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for your reply to my post.

No commentator who has written a thoughtful critique of the Potter tales has ever suggested that there is a formal religion of witchcraft as such in the novels. But how does secular culture today understand and define “spiritual”?; the immaterial, an unseen force, a power that interfaces with human existence? By this definition Potter-world is replete with religion. Moreover, it must be viewed in the context of the modern world, where materialism has, alas, blurred the lines between formal religion and spiritualities.

In the Potter books there are rituals, for example the Sorting Hat scene, in which an undefined power determines which of the four houses of Hogwarts the student witches and wizards will enter, to some extent reading each student’s character and influencing his destiny. There is an inference of supernatural gnosis here, or a hint of some higher power. There is also divination in various forms ranging from the silly to the deadly earnest. There are ghosts attached to each house, again implying access to spiritual dimensions.

The sorting hat “ritual” really? The hat that places them in a “house” at school so they can get to know friends who have the same goals and values, and in no way affects the students character or destiny. I am confused, now reference to any kind of supernatural is bad? What about God, he is supernatural last time I checked. We as Catholics believe in the existence of the supernatural, in angels, and demons. Oh and the ghosts in HP have no connection with the “other world” They are merely another being in this world like the house elves, goblins, giants, etc.

Then we have the issue of the curriculum: some of the book titles in Harry’s training are appropriated from the real world of witchcraft. This is very alarming because children can google those titles on the internet and be instantly connected to a variety of sights offering them portals into the real world of witchcraft, sorcery and even overt Satanism. As Christian parent’s does all this really sit comfortably with our Catholicism and, for that matter, is it even compatible with it?

So you oppose all fantasy fiction that has any reference to magic what so ever right? Even Narnia and LOTRs, because what you say can be imputed to all fantasy fiction.

Many of the practices in the books are the same as the real thing, but they are sanitized, made to appear scary but fun, without any long-term consequences. To be fair, they do show that some activities can be physically dangerous, but the dominant message throughout is that if one has enough knowledge and skill then one can get through the dangers.

Like what?

When people defend these unwholesome books by remarking that the tales disconnect witchcraft from spiritual realities, and that there really is no danger of the child wanting to go from fantasy fiction witchcraft to actual witchcraft, they are leaping to a huge conclusion devoid of emprical evidence.

So are you when you claim the opposite.

It is quite true that the books appear at first glance to disconnect witchcraft from the spiritual and present it all as exciting stuff and in no way spiritually dangerous. However, herein lies the danger because it makes the Potter series potentially more corrupting by giving the child a false sense of what witchcraft is really all about.

Finally, I am quite intrigued by the way Rowling consistently portrays those characters who are critical or fearful of magic as vicious abusers or utterly ignorant. Is this an oblique authorial pre-emptive strike against any who dare criticise her work?, or perhaps an attempt to soften a child reader’s instinctive aversion to the horrible?, or to subtly override whatever cautions against witchcraft and sorcery a child may have learned from his parent’s or the Church?

Sigh, because the magic in HP is an inherited innate trait, not something you can teach yourself. So the fact that people are critical or fearful of magic, it is a problem, because the witches and wizards in HP have to learn how to use their magic or accidents can happen, like when Harry made his Aunt swell, or let the snake out of its cage. To hate magic in HP is to hate people, like hating the mutants in the X-men. Or how unreasonable it would be for you to hate tall people, or short people, or etc.

The Dursley’s, for example, are utterly despicable characters and decidedly against magic. In volume 4 we learn Voldemort, the archetype of radical evil, began life as student named Riddle, whom the author informs us was abandoned by his father as child, and that his father was against magic. In short, the greatest evils, according to the narrative, have their root cause in anti-magic types!

Indeed hatred against what people are can be the root of many evils. Can you deny this. The Dursleys hate magic and the people who can’t help it that they have magic. Kind of like Hitler hated the Jews, even ones who no longer practiced that faith…

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Jilly4ski,
Like to add that those promoting wizards control over other beings both magical and non-magical are portrayed as a greater source of evil than the anti-magical types.

Interesting to me that folks focus on things not in the books, i.e. diabolical influences, or connections that can only be made by including outside works- which would require your kids to go out and find those. Then ignore the actual themes and points made in the books. Laying ones life down for ones friends, human beings choose to be evil or good, use of one’s abilities in the pursuit of either good or bad, consequences of ignoring evil (ministry and majority of wizards refusal to believe or ignoring return of Voldemort), power given to evil by not facing it - i.e. the whole not saying Voldemort’s name…, the eternal consequences to one’s soul by embracing evil, man’s choice to repent and turn away from and reject evil.

For example, you can read the entire series as a warning on putting credence in prophesy. It’s Voldemort’s placing credence in prophesy which initiates the whole chain of events ultimately leading to his eternal damnation. He empowers the prophesy not because it is necessarily true, but by acting on it. Note, prophesy/divination is the one area which is denigrated in the book, even Dumbledore saying he was going to shut down classes in it. The divination teacher is the only one shown to be incompetent, no successful divination is done by any of the students. If Voldemort simply ignores it, which he should based on the above, he doesn’t go after Harry, he isn’t transformed into a incorporeal being needing to become carnate again etc. etc. etc.

But again, as I said in an earlier post- a lot of what you take away from something is dependent on what you bring into it. And I’m as susceptible to confirmation bias as anyone else…
 
Well, part of what’s dragging on the thread is a discussion about whether Harry’s character (among others) was good or whether he’s actually a lesser evil.

Unfortunately, the definition of lesser evil would have covered Christ. Since Christ wielded extraordinary capabilities which he used for good, actually lost his temper a few times, broke both religious and civil laws and social restrictions. Several times either not receiving punishment or evading it.

It’s also an example of confirmation bias- folks see what they want to see, look for those items that confirm their position and discard those things that don’t. Even more difficult when folks are getting the information confirming their opinion second-hand.
Confirmation bias … I think you’re totally right. I mean, you can twist anything to look a certain way. The only caveat I have on this is that it seems that most people who are against Harry Potter and maintain a blind faith death-grip that it is “witchcraft” have never read the books nor seen the movies. I’d argue more that it’s an “ignorance is easier than knowledge” kind of thing. If they actually learned the facts, they’d be hard pressed to continue their current arguments. Same holds true with anti-Catholicism. If people actually LEARNED about the church, their fallacious arguments would fall though.
 
Portrait,

Actually, the sorting hat ‘ritual’ is used to show the exact opposite. That we are not controlled by some higher power, that we control our own fates through the exercise of choice and free will. At the very beginning of the series, it is used to highlight Harry making a choice. He does not want to go to Slytherin which is associated with the Voldemort cult. So he chooses to go to a different house, his desire and choice rule the day- not the sorting hat. He is not partaking in a ritual determining his fate, he is asserting his will to control his own. This comes back in the story several times. At the end of one book (is it the Chamber of Secrets?) Harry is afraid that he too is like Voldemort because of the snake speaking ability or something, and Dumbledore tells him no, it is our CHOICES that make us who we are, that differentiates Voldemort from Harry. He points out that Harry chose which house he was in during the sorting hat ‘ritual’ as the specific example- he is choosing his own path, aspiring to good vice evil, he is not a creature of fate. At the conclusion Harry’s son is afraid he won’t be in Gryffindor (sp?) and Harry again brings up the sorting hat allowing Harry to choose, and assuring his son that he will be able to choose as well.
 
Pope Benedict (when cardinal ratzinger), Gabriel Amorth, Matthew Arnold have spoken out against HP. That’s enough to push me into the no camp. I will not let my child see it. He can play some sports and pray with me and his friends instead:thumbsup:
 
He is saying trick or treat is no big shakes. What’s that to do with HP?
 
Man, those pictures are creepy I’ll get nightmares…:eek: And I’m 32!
 
F.A.O. jilly4ski

Dear jilly4ski,

Cordial greetings again and thankyou for your recent post above.

First, it may not be pleasant to contemplate, but the sad truth is that there really are people in our world that practice withchcraft, who cast spells and perform rituals and who observe results. The problem that I and so many Catholics have with Rowling is that she writes as if such powers can be channeled into good, and herein lies the great danger of the Potter tales. Rituals, spells and brews are used in the real world of witchcraft and work because of the power of evil spirits. That being the case they can never lead to good and portraying these innately evil practices as if somehow they can be harnessed for good is a dangerous lie and renders the books culturally unhealthy reading material for people of all ages.

Of course as a Catholic I believe in the existence of the supernatural, but I am rightly wary of the supernatural when it involves some “undefined power” as in the Potter books, the origin of which is highly suspect to say the very least.

Second, I am somewhat surprised that you have not responded to my comments regarding the “curriculum” and those book titles copied from the real world of witchcraft. Surely you find it disturbing that children could put those titles into the search engine and thereby be connected to various sights offering them a gateway into the real world of witchcraft, sorcery and even overt Satanism? Most Christians, and many good non-Christians, would rightly think Rowling downright irresponsible in using such titles in books primarily intended for a young readership.

Third, the difference between Tolkein and Lewis who employ magical elements in a Christian way and Rowling’s books where magic is presented in a pagan fashion is very great indeed, actually I would say that it was absolute. The resemblace between the Christian fantasy fiction writers and Rowling’s material is only superficial. True, there is “magic” in both. Nonetheless, both Lewis and Tolkein warn about the danger of magic throughout their novels.

Tolkein is especially clear on this. In the his great epic The Lord of the Rings he shows that powers that do not rightly belong to man always have a corrupting infulence upon man. Only higher ranks of creatures in his imaginary world exercise supernatural powers, and then only as a gift from God. Moreover, the “magic” in Tolkein’s subcreation has no parallel to actual magical practices in the real world. In fact he makes efforts to explain this in his collected letters, where he expresses some concern that his intention might be misinterpreted by his readers.

As for C.S. Lewis, in his fantasy series, The Chronicles of Narnia, and in his cosmic trilogy for adults, he likewise repeatedly demonstrates the seductiveness of powers that are not rightly man’s, especially when they are seized as a form of Gnositic quest for power.

Both of these eminent Christian writer’s firmly underline the fact that defeat of radical evil is contingent upon humilty, courage, love, self-sacrifice - in short, our natural human virtues.

Rowling’s Potter-world is fundamentally Gnostic. Magic is presented, as you yourself have observed, as an inherent facullty of human nature that only requires awakening and formation through the pursuit of esoteric knowledge and power. There is not even a whiff of the divine presence, whereas the world of Lewis and tolkein is radiant with this unspoken presence. Again, in the world of Potter magic is portrayed as a morally neutral power, which in the hands of attractive and “cool” characters serves the good, and in the hands of negative characters serves evil. Tolkein’s central character, Frodo, defeats evil by fidelity to truth, by rejecting unlawful power and perservering in a state of weakness. Rowling’s central character defeats evil by amassing enough power to surmount his archenemy, yet this power is the same as his opponent. Thus I do not oppose all fantasy fiction that has any reference to magic, only magic that is portrayed as a morally neutral and unlawful power, as in the Potter novels.

In our modern culture we have become all too accustomed to consuming a certain amount of poison in our diet; indeed most of us no longer recognize the poison. That is why, I believe, many educators and parents simply do not perceive the scope of the problem with the Potter books

Fourth, Statisitically speaking it is exceedingly difficult to prove precisely the number of youth who have entered occultic subcultures as a direct result of reading the Potter books or watching the films that those books have spawned. The numbers of children who step from Potter-world into the actual world of magic may be relatively small. However, given the massive marketing hype and the unprecedented popularity of the books and films, even a small minority of young readers hooked into the occultic subcultures can add up to a great many souls for whom Christ died. Would you not agree that even a single lost child is a tragedy?

Warmest good wishes

Portrait

Pax
 
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