Warsaw archbishop 'right to quit'

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Bob,

If you read my OP, I did include suffering. Now those innocent children did suffer at the hands of Priests now did they not?

Lee44
 
Bob,

You can deny the sins of the Church until you are blue in the face, but the numbers all do add up. Its tragic. I will pray for all of the victims and hope you do the same.

Lee44
If they add up you should have no problem providing them. So far you have benn able to show only about 40,000 over a 2,000 year period.
 
No one disoputes the pope called for the crusades. So far what you have done is a document dump-none of which comes even close to backing up your absurd contention the church was responible for the deaths of millions.
Bob,

Shame on you, you did not read the entire article. Is it that you are afraid of the truth?

Lee44
 
If they add up you should have no problem providing them. So far you have benn able to show only about 40,000 over a 2,000 year period.
Taken from the link i gave you Bob

The death toll of the Crusades is hotly debated among Crusades scholars. Estimates of the total death toll run a wide gamut, with one of the highest at seven million, with far more than half of the dead coming from Christian camps. (James Trager, The People’s Chronology (1992)) The main points here are its traumatic effects upon all communities involved, and the diversity of communities involved on all ends of this assault
 
You seem ready to leave the Church and revert to Protestantism. Why didn’t Protestants in Germany do more?

Surely, you aren’t blaming the Catholic Church for the holocaust.
The Pope did very little to help the Jews, he has the blood of the innocents on his hand and so does the Church.
 
Bob,

as per your request here is a link about the crusades and the Popes role in it.

kent.ac.uk/mts/documents/undisc/segol.doc

Peace,
Lee44
I invite our members to visit this site. Open it in Microsoft Word. The first thing you will note is that it is full of mispellings and gramatical errors. The second thing you will note is the author has no credentials whatsoever realating to the Crusades- a fact he admits. The third thing will notice is that no sources are given. When he makes absurd comments like there were 7 million killed in the Crusdaes he offers no evidence to support it. A lot of the “paper” is devoted to attacking George Bush( a real mark of a scholarly paper!)

It really would be nice if when peple google up something they actually read it before posting the link. I would be outright embarassed to link to such garbage.

At any rate this thread has gone from discussn to baiting. Im outa here.
 
A Holy Man? Pope Urban said

Pope Urban II asserts:
“The possessions of the enemy, too, will be yours, since you will make spoil of their treasures and return victorious to your own; or empurpled with your own blood, you will have gained everlasting glory.”
Here, the possessions of the infidels should provide sufficient incentive for attack, and failing this, the heavenly version, a reward for having been on the side of right, will have to do. And, as will also sound familiar, the Crusaders’ greed is buried in the ideology of a pre-emptive strike.
 
I invite our members to visit this site. Open it in Microsoft Word. The first thing you will note is that it is full of mispellings and gramatical errors. The second thing you will note is the author has no credentials whatsoever realating to the Crusades- a fact he admits. The third thing will notice is that no sources are given. When he makes absurd comments like there were 7 million killed in the Crusdaes he offers no evidence to support it. A lot of the “paper” is devoted to attacking George Bush( a real mark of a scholarly paper!)

It really would be nice if when peple google up something they actually read it before posting the link. I would be outright embarassed to link to such garbage.

At any rate this thread has gone from discussn to baiting. Im outa here.
So now are you defending the Iraq war, of which the current Pope is opposed to? Make up your mind.

Lee44
 
I invite our members to visit this site. Open it in Microsoft Word. The first thing you will note is that it is full of mispellings and gramatical errors. The second thing you will note is the author has no credentials whatsoever realating to the Crusades- a fact he admits. The third thing will notice is that no sources are given. When he makes absurd comments like there were 7 million killed in the Crusdaes he offers no evidence to support it. A lot of the “paper” is devoted to attacking George Bush( a real mark of a scholarly paper!)

It really would be nice if when peple google up something they actually read it before posting the link. I would be outright embarassed to link to such garbage.

At any rate this thread has gone from discussn to baiting. Im outa here.
Estesbob,
Thank you for taking the time to draw out the transparency in the other guy’s posts. Especially interesting link is the one you gave for famous trials. Thanks for that also. And to quote your last words - “I’m outa here” as well.
 
I wonder why the Pope apologized then, kinda makes you want to think on this, check out this link

catholicherald.com/articles/00articles/meaculpa.htm
Well, the State of Israel feels a bit differently about it, as they dedicated an 800,000 tree orchard(representing their estimate of Jewish lives saved by the actions of the Vatican during WWII) to Pius XII back when Golda Meir was Foreign Minister.

At the end of the war, Pius XII was hailed as “the inspired moral prophet of victory,” and “enjoyed near-universal acclaim for aiding European Jews.” Numerous Jewish leaders, including Albert Einstein, Israeli Prime Ministers Golda Meir and Moshe Sharett, and Chief Rabbi Isaac Herzog, expressed their public gratitude to Pius XII, praising him as a “righteous gentile,” who had saved thousands of Jews during the Holocaust. In his meticulously researched and comprehensive 1967 book, Three Popes and the Jews, the Israeli historian and diplomat Pinchas Lapide, who had served as the Israeli Counsel General in Milan, and had spoken with many Italian Jewish Holocaust survivors who owed their life to Pius, provided the empirical basis for their gratitude, concluding that Pius XII “was instrumental in saving at least 700,000, but probably as many as 860,000 Jews from certain death at Nazi hands.” To this day, the Lapide volume remains the definitive work, by a Jewish scholar, on the subject.

=========================

members.aol.com/johnjrh/pius.html
.

Read a history book or do some research will you? Don’t just spout a bunch of junk you read on some anti-catholic website.
 
Read a history book or do some research will you? Don’t just spout a bunch of junk you read on some anti-catholic website.
Hi,

The truth does hurt. Its a sad day when I see Catholics defending child molesters and Nazi’s really sad indeed. I will pray for you.

Lee44
 
Hi,

The truth does hurt. Its a sad day when I see Catholics defending child molesters and Nazi’s really sad indeed. I will pray for you.

Lee44
No one is defending child molesters or Nazis on this thread. Why would you say something like that?

If you had a bad experience with the Catholic Church, I am sorry. If you are leaving the Church, I am also sorry to see you go. But, please don’t spend your time writing uncharitable posts about individual Catholics and the Church. It is petty and unChristian.

Now, regarding the thread…it is WAY off-topic. We are supposed to be discussing a Warsaw archbishop’s decision to quit because he spent time helping the communists…
 
I am not attacking you. I am merely pointing out that your posts, given your ignorance of the Catholic Church, make you look very foolish.
I agree. I am forced to wonder if Lee is one of those high school students who recently found out that he/she/it is more enlightened than others despite his/her/its obvious wealth of ignorance. With his/her/its excessive platitudes (and occasionally sentences that make no sense at all), he/she/it sure sounds like one.
 
I agree. I am forced to wonder if Lee is one of those high school students who recently found out that he/she/it is more enlightened than others despite his/her/its obvious wealth of ignorance. With his/her/its excessive platitudes (and occasionally sentences that make no sense at all), he/she/it sure sounds like one.
I agree, as well.
 
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