Was Baha'u'llah a Saint ?

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Servant19, you see how the words of Truth are so clear and easy to understand ,there is no need to be esoteric and mystical, can you find us just one saying from Baha’u’llah that is a " PEARL OF WISDOM" ?
Thousands my friend, here are a few 🙂

“Where there is love, nothing is too much trouble, and there is always time”

“Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself.”

“Let each morn be better than its eve and each morrow richer than its yesterday.”

I could go on…

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Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
The Baha’i position is that the moment a Manifestation of God is revealed to the world (this is termed the Last Days), everyone has fallen into sin, for He is the new Standard for what is righteousness and what is unrighteousness.

It is for this reason that Paul says:

“For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin”

…unless you are aware of what is the commandment of God you are unable to be in right relationship with Him.When you fall into right relationship, you are deemed “resurrected from the dead”.

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Since you have not identified your exact source in Paul
Linus2nd
“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus…” (1 Tim 2:56)

“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort…” (2 Cor 1:3)

“…and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.” (1 Cor 3:23)

There are plenty more sources if you wish, lots lots more 🙂

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Not sure what you are referring to Techno?

Would you mind elaborating please?

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He said to them, “Why are you afraid, you men of little faith?” Then He got up and rebuked the winds and the sea, and it became perfectly calm. The men were amazed, and said, “What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?”

Here is another clue …Servant19
 
Thankyou for this quote Randy. If you look more thoroughly there is an even more direct reference in the Bible, from Paul revering Jesus as God. I have addressed in another point why this sort of direct equivalence of Jesus as God does not in any way harm Baha’i theology. The Apostles calling Jesus God “enhances” the validity of Baha’i teaching on the station of the Manifestation of God.

In regards to your question “How many of the saviours were called God?” it follows logic that if Christ was the only Saviour which Catholicism espouses (vatican.va/jubilee_2000/magazine/documents/ju_mag_01101998_p-18_en.html), then all of Ehud AND Othniel AND Jesus were all one God, OR, none of them were God at all.

Is that faulty reasoning?

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Not merely “faulty” but tortured.

If my favorite football team’s goalie stops a penalty kick in stoppage time to preserve a 1-nil victory, we can say that he was our “savior”, and it would be true in one sense.

Similarly, Ehud and Othniel were “saviors” of Israel, but not in the same way that Jesus is the “Savior” of all mankind through His death upon the cross.
 
Thousands my friend, here are a few 🙂

“Where there is love, nothing is too much trouble, and there is always time”

“Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself.”

“Let each morn be better than its eve and each morrow richer than its yesterday.”

I could go on…

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“All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn’t hurt.”

“I love mankind … it’s people I can’t stand!!”

“Happiness is a warm puppy.”

“Stop worrying about the world ending today. It’s already tomorrow in Australia.”

Charles M. Schulz - Creator of Peanuts

I could go on…
 
Bahaullah and those who follow him are wrong about many things related to the spiritual life. that is one good reason for knowing Bahaullah was not a saint in the RC definition of the word.

first and foremost, they are wrong about the Holy Trinity that was revealed to us by Jesus. Jesus taught us that there were three Divine Persons who shared the Divine Nature completely with each other. of course, anyone can go around denying or misstating what Jesus taught. it has been happening for over 1,900 hundred years. but, we who put our faith in Jesus know that Jesus intended for His teachings to be available to all future generations through the mechanism, doctrine, principle of apostolic succession. we know Jesus spent three years specifically teaching and training the twelve for their mission of transmitting the Gospel of Jesus Christ. other people can urge us to put our faith in someone besides Jesus. the bahai do it. the muslims do it. the Mormons do it. and, while the do it they simultaneously tell everyone, oh no, we do not reject Jesus. we honor Jesus. such words ring completely hollow to people who have put their faith in Jesus because they (we) need nothing else besides Jesus to gain eternal life. others, the bahai, the muslims, the Mormons, for example, clearly do not understand what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about. for their information, although I doubt it will penetrate their blind faith, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is about the salvation of souls from their enslavement to sin and separation from their Creator. that is it. all of this other stuff is peripheral to the true mission of Jesus Christ, our salvation from enslavement to sin and the pains of eternal death due to us because of our sinfulness. because Jesus has given us this salvation, there is simply no reason for us to believe that anyone else is going to provide something more because what could be more than freedom from sin and eternal life?

second and equally important, they are wrong about the Divinity of Jesus Christ. Jesus is God, now and forever. Jesus is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, from eternity to eternity. now, the bahai, the muslims, the Mormons and the many others who wish to supplant the Incarnate Word in our hearts with something other than Jesus and salvation, they do understand that if they end up believing Jesus is God, their lives will change irrevocably because their faith will demand a response unique and unequivocal, it will demand either embracing the Incarnate Word or knowingly working against the Incarnate Word. what they may not understand is that, by faith in Jesus, they will also be freed from their enslavement to sin and become heirs to eternal life.

for those who might read the words of the bahai sympathetically, I encourage you to keep in forefront of your minds as you encounter and engage the bahai that, unequivocally, the bahai reject the RCC’s doctrines of both the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation. both of these teachings, the apostles received directly from Jesus Himself. to reject the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation are to reject Jesus and to reject God. on a note of literary analysis you might notice that in my last sentence before this one, I wrote to reject Jesus and to reject God. for a bahai, this phrasing indicates that I intend to teach that Jesus and God do not have the same Divine Nature, but nothing could be farther from the truth. I mention this to emphasize that the written word demands interpretation. it is very rarely, if ever, possible to accept the written word on its face value. always, the written word must be understood according to the author’s intent. the bahai who post here, quite often, have no idea of the author’s intent when they cite the writers of the new testament. this is because they have so little knowledge of what the apostles and their successors teach. we tell them over and over that Jesus taught the apostles far more than they could ever write down. we tell them that the words of the new testament were given to us as a tool to enhance the Gospel of the Lord that is always, first and foremost, transmitted orally.

before leaving, I want to return to the most important theme of this and most of my other posts. that is, what the bahai teach and believe is, for the most part, diametrically opposed to what the successors to the apostles teach and believe..
 
Eddie wrote:

“Bahaullah and those who follow him are wrong about many things related to the spiritual life. that is one good reason for knowing Bahaullah was not a saint in the RC definition of the word.”

Eddie,

Thanks for your post!

I don’t think we as Baha’is see Baha’u’llah as a “saint” in the RC definition of the word…with the canonization process and etc…

Baha’is see Baha’u’llah as a Manifestation of God for this day… A Manifestation has some unique qualities … such as innate knowledge… and read the following:

The Manifestations of God are believed to possess capacities that do not exist in humans, and this difference is not a difference in degree but a difference in kind. The Manifestations of God are not seen to be simply great thinkers or philosophers who have a better understanding than others, but that, by their nature, they are inherently superior to the average human.[6] Thus, the Manifestations of God are special beings, having a unique relationship to God as they have been sent by God from the spiritual world as an instrument of divine revelation. They are understood to have existed in the spiritual world prior to their physical birth in this life. They are also seen to have innate, divinely revealed knowledge and absolute knowledge of the physical world.[6] According to `Abdu’l-Bahá, the son and successor of the founder of the Bahá’í Faith, the Manifestations of God must be distinguished above any other person in every aspect and qualification, in order that they can effectively train and educate people.[7]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifestation_of_God
 
this bahai concept of manifestations as super men is also contrary to the teachings of Jesus and His apostles.

they taught that Jesus was a man just like any of us except that He never sinned. He was tempted but never gave in to temptation.

the bahai concept of supermen (manifestations) was also a concept used by nietzche and by the Nazi regime.

the RCC completely rejects the bahai doctrine of some people being more than human, supermen or manifestations so to use the bahai concepts.

all of the true prophets sent to the jews by God were never considered supermen by anyone until Hussein ali (the bahai call him Bahaullah) created the concept. apparently, both nietzche and the Nazis thought the concept believable, but not so the RCC.
 
Eddie wrote:

“Bahaullah and those who follow him are wrong about many things related to the spiritual life. that is one good reason for knowing Bahaullah was not a saint in the RC definition of the word.”

Eddie,

Thanks for your post!

I don’t think we as Baha’is see Baha’u’llah as a “saint” in the RC definition of the word…with the canonization process and etc…

Baha’is see Baha’u’llah as a Manifestation of God for this day… A Manifestation has some unique qualities … such as innate knowledge… and read the following:

The Manifestations of God are believed to possess capacities that do not exist in humans, and this difference is not a difference in degree but a difference in kind. The Manifestations of God are not seen to be simply great thinkers or philosophers who have a better understanding than others, but that, by their nature, they are inherently superior to the average human.[6] Thus, the Manifestations of God are special beings, having a unique relationship to God as they have been sent by God from the spiritual world as an instrument of divine revelation. They are understood to have existed in the spiritual world prior to their physical birth in this life. They are also seen to have innate, divinely revealed knowledge and absolute knowledge of the physical world.[6] According to `Abdu’l-Bahá, the son and successor of the founder of the Bahá’í Faith, the Manifestations of God must be distinguished above any other person in every aspect and qualification, in order that they can effectively train and educate people.[7]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifestation_of_God
Can you prove to us, in some kind of way, that Baha’u’lla was more than just a Spirit Medium ?
 
“All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn’t hurt.”

“I love mankind … it’s people I can’t stand!!”

“Happiness is a warm puppy.”

“Stop worrying about the world ending today. It’s already tomorrow in Australia.”

Charles M. Schulz - Creator of Peanuts

I could go on…
There is plenty of evidence of the Holy Spirit in this post…

Bravo 🙂

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Not merely “faulty” but tortured.

If my favorite football team’s goalie stops a penalty kick in stoppage time to preserve a 1-nil victory, we can say that he was our “savior”, and it would be true in one sense.

Similarly, Ehud and Othniel were “saviors” of Israel, but not in the same way that Jesus is the “Savior” of all mankind through His death upon the cross.
Except that your goalie is not a Savior “raised by God”

All 3 of Jesus, Ehud and Othniel were each raised by God, so your analogy falls flat 🤷

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http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TkKZZyzUv...Zs/s1600/Jesus+storm+peace-be-still-print.gif
He said to them, “Why are you afraid, you men of little faith?” Then He got up and rebuked the winds and the sea, and it became perfectly calm. The men were amazed, and said, “What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?”

Here is another clue …Servant19
For all the criticisms of gobbledygook that you seem to make, you sure like to like to confuse…

No skin off my back brother 🙂

🤷

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Can you prove to us, in some kind of way, that Baha’u’lla was more than just a Spirit Medium ?
Well show me what proofs you have that Jesus was not a spirit medium and I will give you a comprehensive answer in regards to the Bab and Baha’u’llah…

At the moment I could point to miracles, their lives, their teachings and you believe nothing…so what do you have?

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Except that your goalie is not a Savior “raised by God”

All 3 of Jesus, Ehud and Othniel were each raised by God, so your analogy falls flat.

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Jesus rose from the dead after the crucifixion as He foretold proving that He is God.

Would you please show the verses detailing the deaths and resurrections of Ehud and Othniel?

If you are unable to do so, then please explain how MY post falls flat and yours doesn’t.

Thanks.
 
Well show me what proofs you have that Jesus was not a spirit medium and I will give you a comprehensive answer in regards to the Bab and Baha’u’llah…

At the moment I could point to miracles, their lives, their teachings and you believe nothing…so what do you have?

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Servant19, if Baha’u’llah is the Second Comings, why nobody knows he came ?

Servant19 :
At the moment I could point to miracles, their lives, their teachings and you believe nothing…so what do you have?

Techno2000:
Just like you believe nothing about Jesus, I believe nothing about Bab and Baha’u’llah.
 
For all the criticisms of gobbledygook that you seem to make, you sure like to like to confuse…

No skin off my back brother 🙂

🤷

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You don’t understand… “What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?”… means ?

Answer: They were Dumbfounded that a mere Mortal could control the Elements of Nature.
 
It might be good to clarify here that Baha’is are not interested in spiritualism or mediumship…

“spiritualism as such is not taught by the Bahá’í religion. Our Master has said that religion and true science must go together and most of these things have not been proved by science.”

The Light of Divine Guidance (Volume 2)
Author: Shoghi Effendi Source: Bahá’í Publishing Trust of Germany (Bahá’í-Verlag), 1985 edition Pages: 133

And here Abdul-Baha further clarifies:

"O handmaid of God! The stars in the sky do not exert any spiritual influence on this world of dust; but all the members and parts of the universe are very strongly linked together in that limitless space, and this connection produceth a reciprocity of material effects. Outside the bounty of the Holy Spirit, whatsoever thou hearest as to the effect of trances, or the mediums’ trumpets, conveying the singing voices of the dead, is imagination pure and simple. As to the bounty of the Holy Spirit, however, relate whatsoever thou wilt—it cannot be overstated; believe, therefore, whatsoever thou hearest of this. But the persons referred to, the trumpet-people, are entirely shut out from this bounty and receive no portion thereof; their way is an illusion".

Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá
Author: ‘Abdu’l-Bahá Source: Bahá’í World Centre, 1982 lightweight edition Pages: 320

As to Nazis… Heinrich Himmler outlawed the Baha’i Faith in the Reich in 1937 and sent some Baha’is to jail…there is no connection between Nazis and the Baha’is. There’s also no reference to “supermen” or “superman” in the Baha’i Writings.

😉
 
“spiritualism as such is not taught by the Bahá’í religion. Our Master has said that religion and true science must go together and most of these things have not been proved by science.”
The Revelations received by Baha’u’llah have not been proved by science so it’s best that you disregard them.
 
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