Was Baha'u'llah a Saint ?

[GuyNextDoor]

Jesus rose from the dead after the crucifixion as He foretold proving that He is God.

Would you please show the verses detailing the deaths and resurrections of Ehud and Othniel?

If you are unable to do so, then please explain how MY post falls flat and yours doesn’t.

Thanks.

Problem here is the Baha’is do not believe in a bodily resurrection and claimed Paul taught about spiritual resurrection, to which I have responded to it a couple of times using the greek manuscripts. Until now, I have received no ‘sufficient response’ from them pertaining to the original greek texts.

I am certain however that they are going to dismiss the original texts though.

 

[Techno2000]

At the moment I could point to miracles, their lives, their teachings and you believe nothing…so what do you have?

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Words of Abdu’l-Baha:

“If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science, they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition. Unquestionably there must be agreement between true religion and science. If a question be found contrary to reason, faith and belief in it are impossible, and there is no outcome but wavering and vacillation.”

I would think that these miracles would be found contrary to the standards of science.

 

[Servant19]

Problem here is the Baha’is do not believe in a bodily resurrection and claimed Paul taught about spiritual resurrection, to which I have responded to it a couple of times using the greek manuscripts. Until now, I have received no ‘sufficient response’ from them pertaining to the original greek texts.

I am certain however that they are going to dismiss the original texts though.

The response is given by Peter dear friend. No need to complicate matters with body of this or body of that. My daughter has died and she has visited my wife on several occasions in a perfect body, and conversed with her, but this is the form of the spirit, not some pseudo spiritual-physical complexity that defies rationality.

Here’s Peter’s quote:

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 1 Peter 3:18

It cannot possibly be clearer than this…

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[Servant19]

Jesus rose from the dead after the crucifixion as He foretold proving that He is God.

Would you please show the verses detailing the deaths and resurrections of Ehud and Othniel?

If you are unable to do so, then please explain how MY post falls flat and yours doesn’t.

Thanks.

So you are saying that the Old Testament is false?

God alone can offer salvation. Ehud and Othniel were Saviours, RAISED BY GOD for this purpose. So they too were God. Unless you are saying that the Old Testament is false in calling them Saviours?

Jesus rising from the dead does not make or break Him as a Saviour. THE SCRIPTURE SAYS HE WAS A SAVIOUR

The Scripture also says that Othniel and Ehud were Saviours. I don’t care if all they did was to pick their nose, the Scripture says they were Saviours so they were.

They too were God therefore…



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[Servant19]

Servant19, if Baha’u’llah is the Second Comings, why nobody knows he came ?

Servant19 :
At the moment I could point to miracles, their lives, their teachings and you believe nothing…so what do you have?

Techno2000:
Just like you believe nothing about Jesus, I believe nothing about Bab and Baha’u’llah.

I believe EVERYTHING about Jesus.

I’m just not sure if YOU believe in the true Jesus. You certainly don’t believe Jesus was raised in the Spirit, but Peter does.
You certainly don’t believe that Jesus is the “mediator” BETWEEN God and mankind, but Timothy does (Tim 2:5)

I believe in the Jesus of the Apostles…not sure where you get the idea that I don’t from?

.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Problem here is the Baha’is do not believe in a bodily resurrection and claimed Paul taught about spiritual resurrection, to which I have responded to it a couple of times using the greek manuscripts. Until now, I have received no ‘sufficient response’ from them pertaining to the original greek texts.

I am certain however that they are going to dismiss the original texts though.

Yes, it appears “I can’t understand it” became “I don’t believe it” for those who have embraced this man-made religion. The Baha’i religion seems to be a theological soup with ingredients pulled from a variety of sources in an attempt to explain what they cannot understand.

Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Since there does not seem to be much forthcoming in the way of actual interaction with the scriptures we present (and why would there be if the Bible is not the inspired Word of God?), these threads are a waste of time.

 

[GuyNextDoor]

The response is given by Peter dear friend. No need to complicate matters with body of this or body of that. My daughter has died and she has visited my wife on several occasions in a perfect body, and conversed with her, but this is the form of the spirit, not some pseudo spiritual-physical complexity that defies rationality.

Here’s Peter’s quote:

Quote:
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 1 Peter 3:18

It cannot possibly be clearer than this…

.

It is not complicated. Its merely the original texts. What you are trying to re-interprete the verses is complicated, when the original greek texts explained everything in detail.

Good that you quoted Peter, however…you cannot seem to resist quoting verses out of their context. Why would you do that? This is the entire passage of the verse you were trying to quote and twist:

1 Pet. 3:17-20
“For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong. 18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.” (1 Pet. 3:17-20).

Indeed, He was dead for 3 days. His spirit went down to save the other souls before resurrecting bodily on the 3rd day. If you insist that Jesus only resurrected in spirit, then you are going against these verses among many in the Bible below:

John 2:19-21
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

Luke 24:39
39 “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

Quite honestly, we have more evidences in the English, Hebrew & Greek scriptures to support the bodily resurrection of Jesus and at the end of days than you could ever hope to contend with. All you could ever offer us in cutting a couple lines here and there from passages, just so it will be misunderstood.

I believe EVERYTHING about Jesus.

I’m just not sure if YOU believe in the true Jesus. You certainly don’t believe Jesus was raised in the Spirit, but Peter does.

I think we can all pretty much say the same about you in regards to the true Jesus.

 

[Techno2000]

I believe EVERYTHING about Jesus.

I’m just not sure if YOU believe in the true Jesus. You certainly don’t believe Jesus was raised in the Spirit, but Peter does.
You certainly don’t believe that Jesus is the “mediator” BETWEEN God and mankind, but Timothy does (Tim 2:5)

I believe in the Jesus of the Apostles…not sure where you get the idea that I don’t from?

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You can’t serve two Masters… Jesus and Baha’u’llah .

 

[GuyNextDoor]

Yes, it appears “I can’t understand it” became “I don’t believe it” for those who have embraced this man-made religion. The Baha’i religion seems to be a theological soup with ingredients pulled from a variety of sources in an attempt to explain what they cannot understand.

Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Since there does not seem to be much forthcoming in the way of actual interaction with the scriptures we present (and why would there be if the Bible is not the inspired Word of God?), these threads are a waste of time.

Yep and the best part Baha’is accepted the Buddha as the ‘manifestation of God’ when the Buddha does not even acknowledge the existence of a Creator. I studied Buddhism before I went into Catholicism, since my entire family is Buddhist. There is nowhere ever that the Buddha stated there is a Creator God. No offense intended to the Baha’is but…they are cooking a giant pot of soup with leftovers accumulated for weeks!

 

[Techno2000]

Yep and the best part Baha’is accepted the Buddha as the ‘manifestation of God’ when the Buddha does not even acknowledge the existence of a Creator. I studied Buddhism before I went into Catholicism, since my entire family is Buddhist. There is nowhere ever that the Buddha stated there is a Creator God. No offense intended to the Baha’is but…they are cooking a giant pot of soup with leftovers accumulated for weeks!

 

[eddie_too]

the reason the bahai religion teaches so many errors and teaches that Jesus’ teachings were in error is because they are not theologians nor scripture scholars. they have very little education in the RC faith and in biblical exegesis. their errors are a result of blind faith and extreme ignorance.

no saint would ever dare to contradict Jesus as did husayn ali and as do those who adopt the bahai beliefs promulgated by husayn ali.

as they demonstrate repeatedly, their understanding of the bible and of the doctrines of the RCC is negligible to the point of non-existent.

they constantly take biblical verses out of context. they constantly interpret biblical texts as though they existed apart from all other aspects of reality.

aspects such as the purpose of the inspired writers. aspects such as the FACT that the teachings of Jesus were transmitted orally prior to the texts of the n.t. being written. aspects such as the reality that the people who wrote the texts better understand the meaning than those who have no training in understanding the texts.

the most obvious example of their errors is their rejection of the Holy Eucharist as the Real Presence of Jesus Christ under the appearance of bread and wine. of course, they also reject the most fundamental teachings of Jesus such as the doctrines of the Holy Trinity, the Incarnation, the Resurrection of the Body, the alienation of sin, Redemption and Salvation.

 

[Techno2000]

Yep and the best part Baha’is accepted the Buddha as the ‘manifestation of God’ when the Buddha does not even acknowledge the existence of a Creator. I studied Buddhism before I went into Catholicism, since my entire family is Buddhist. There is nowhere ever that the Buddha stated there is a Creator God. No offense intended to the Baha’is but…they are cooking a giant pot of soup with leftovers accumulated for weeks!

I Like to call it… GOBBLEDYGOOK.

 

[arthra]

Yep and the best part Baha’is accepted the Buddha as the ‘manifestation of God’ when the Buddha does not even acknowledge the existence of a Creator. I studied Buddhism before I went into Catholicism, since my entire family is Buddhist. There is nowhere ever that the Buddha stated there is a Creator God. No offense intended to the Baha’is but…they are cooking a giant pot of soup with leftovers accumulated for weeks!

Guy next door… Thanks for your post!

The Buddha in my view had a mission that was not to align Himself with those who were clearly using the Vedas to enrich themselves and keep a hold of the spiritual lives of the population…so He taught “Neti Neti” not this…not that… He opposed using animal sacrifices and allowing priests to have a privileged class… He opposed the caste system of His day…much like Jesus who opposed the class structure of ancient Judaea and the Temple sacrifice system… He released the doves and so on from the Temple precincts.

There is an essay on the subject of Buddhism and the Baha’i Faith that’s online

bahai-library.com/momen_encyclopedia_buddhism

A shorter one at

bahai-library.com/warwick_buddhism

Baha’is believe Baha’u’llah fulfilled the prophecies of the Maitreya Buddha and Amitabha…

 

[Randy_Carson]

So you are saying that the Old Testament is false?

You have an odd way of twisting words. Did I say or imply that the OT is false. Or did I simply point out that your interpretation is incorrect?

God alone can offer salvation. Ehud and Othniel were Saviours, RAISED BY GOD for this purpose. So they too were God. Unless you are saying that the Old Testament is false in calling them Saviours?

You can’t just Google the word “savior” in the Bible and automatically assume that because the word appears on one verse, it must mean the exact same in another verse. Context is everything.

For example, I can “raise” money for a charity, too, and I might be considered a “savior” by those I help, but I am not their savior in the sense that I have atoned for their sins by the shedding of my own blood.

**The word “savior” in the sense of the goalie’s “save” is not the same as Jesus’ salvific work on the cross. Thus, “savior” can have very different meanings.

Do you agree?**

We aren’t going to get very far if you can’t acknowledge that distinction.

Jesus rising from the dead does not make or break Him as a Saviour. THE SCRIPTURE SAYS HE WAS A SAVIOUR

This is true.

What separates Jesus AS SAVIOR is that His blood was shed as an atoning sacrifice for our sins AND by rising from the dead, He proved Himself to be God.

Othniel and Ehud did neither of those things. So, while they were saviors in the same sense that a general who leads an army to victory is the savior of his people, they were not saviors in the sense that their blood did nothing for you and me.

The Scripture also says that Othniel and Ehud were Saviours. I don’t care if all they did was to pick their nose, the Scripture says they were Saviours so they were.

And we do not disagree as to whether they were “saviors”; we also agree that God raised them up as saviors. No problem.

Did either of them offer their blood as a sacrifice for the sins of the people? Further, since neither of them WAS GOD, their blood was insufficient to atone for the sins of all humanity even if they had.

They too were God therefore…

Othniel and Ehud were God. Is this Baha’i teaching or did you come up with this on your own?

Othniel, Ehud and Baha’u’llah. All men who died, were buried and never rose again.

These are your Gods, Servant? If so, your “gods” are too small to be worthy of your worship.

 

[Techno2000]

Othniel, Ehud and Baha’u’llah. All men who died, were buried and never rose again.

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Baha’u’llah was the Manifestation of God…so you don’t know what a Manifestation can and can not do.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Baha’u’llah was the Manifestation of God…so you don’t know what a Manifestation can and can not do.

Remember, Jesus is God, but not uncreated God, right?

But Servant wrote:

The Scripture also says that Othniel and Ehud were Saviours. I don’t care if all they did was to pick their nose, the Scripture says they were Saviours so they were.

They too were God…

And they have trouble with the Trinity???

Jesus can’t be the second person of the Trinity, but Othniel and Ehud were God…

Were they created gods like Jesus? How many of these guys are there???

 

[Techno2000]

Remember, Jesus is God, but not uncreated God, right?

But Servant wrote:

The Scripture also says that Othniel and Ehud were Saviours. I don’t care if all they did was to pick their nose, the Scripture says they were Saviours so they were.

They too were God…

And they have trouble with the Trinity???

Jesus can’t be the second person of the Trinity, but Othniel and Ehud were God…

Were they created gods like Jesus? How many of these guys are there???

Just think, if all of Christendom ever found out about the Bahá’í religion how much would they
be ripped apart.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Just think, if all of Christendom ever found out about the Bahá’í religion how much would they
be ripped apart.

Well, if anything, I think that private, one-on-one evangelism is the way they ought to go.

Exposing Baha’u’llah’s faulty reasoning in a public forum accessible to anyone with an internet connection and a browser seems like a bad idea.

Kinda counterproductive, don’tcha think?

 

[Techno2000]

Well, if anything, I think that private, one-on-one evangelism is the way they ought to go.

Exposing Baha’u’llah’s faulty reasoning in a public forum accessible to anyone with an internet connection and a browser seems like a bad idea.

Kinda counterproductive, don’tcha think?

I guess what I mean to say is, if the Protestants attack us, how much more would they attack the Baha’í faith.

 

[GuyNextDoor]

I Like to call it… GOBBLEDYGOOK.

That sounds some really thick soup boiling… gobbledygook gobbledygook. Somebody turn the heat down!