Was I off-based to say in committee meeting?

[JMJ_Theresa]

she_he:

your right YOU should practice what you are preaching, its in my RCIA book that the church= the congregation, EVERYONE not just a select few,and not just the people whom decide the others should go. EVERYONE has the right to be there,cradle catholics,arm chair Catholics,catholics not following the teachings,revolting Catholics,
and even the Catholics whom seem to be able to talk to god and know exactly what he wants at every single minute of the day.

Yep that about covers everyone,no one person has more right to attend mass than another,

I understand some of your frustrations on this subject,However last I knew it was the heavenly Fathers whom decide who is “saved” and whom should be “Cast out”,
I also remember reading in my RCIA book something about not “judging others”. and looking at church laws i see nothing there for a “communion or a mass” police force.
but I could be over looking something…

Oh well I dont claim to know everything about Catholicism,BUT I AM still going to attend mass, like it or not and i may bring a lot of
my friends too so more that dont know nothing, and if they bring 2 friends and they bring 2 friends and so on and so on, maybe we could get you a job at the church Teaching all us nonconforming
Catholics how to conform to your way of thinking…
or we could just pay attention to the mass and the priests.
and be on the path

Still learning

John

Well, no one is suggesting that we push people out of the Church. What my committee member said that people would leave of their own volition if we taught Catholic Doctrine.

I think that 90% of people who leave the Church actually leave because they haven’t been taught Catholic Doctrine.

You are right, John, that everyone is on a journey. I am still learning, too. Iwould have been considered a Cafeteria Catholic ten years ago. But, I trully did not even know that Catholics are required to believe all Catholic Doctrine. I worry about all my brothers and sisters in the pews who have been so ill served by our parishes in teaching them the faith.

Unless a person has been excommunicated (we know how serious that situation would be), no one should be pushed out of the Church. However, we must endeavor to bring the faith to every Catholic.

That is what I want to do on this faith formation committee. I don’t understand why a Catholic would think that learning Catholicism would turn off someone from the faith. If anything, it will set their hearts on fire!!

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

RiverRock:

Oh here we go…I’m judging again. Wow, that you got all of that out of my statement is amazing. I’ll try this again:

If it’s in the catechism, it’s Catholic. If it’s not, it’s not. Period. How’s that for clarity? It’s not MY way of thinking. It’s the Catholic Churches way, as set up by Jesus. That was my point, it’s not MY way of thinking; it’s not YOUR way of thinking. It’s the Churches way. Seems like you are trying to Burger King it; and have it your way.

I never once said I knew everything. I’m still on my faith journey, as we all are, until we die.

Theresa said that someone said that we shouldn’t require too much of anyone, because they will leave. I agreed with her.

River Rock, I understand your frustration that your zeal is being misinterpreted. I have noticed that on this forum, there is a wariness that we may be vulnerable to spiritual pride. That is definitely a danger. I think we all know that as far as ignorance of the faith is concerned, “there for the Grace of God, go I.”

I think we are on the same page with our concern for evangelizing our fellow Catholics. I don’t know why God has let the Church get to this state of ignorance. I know that I have to forgive over and over those people who failed to teach me the faith. Sometimes, I am filled with bitterness. My brothers and sister have left the Church. None of my cousins practice the Faith. I know people have children who have left the Church. How painful.

Lord Jesus, Come!

 

[sholly]

I don’t remember who said it, but it has become central to learning and living my Catholic Faith: “It is better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for being who you are not”. As a returning Catholic, I only wish that I would have been better catechized in the 70’s…being Catholic and learning about this glorious faith is not easy, but well worth the effort. Jesus did not tell us that it would be easy or that we would be popular…I believe he said just the opposite. Pray that your coucil members will come to know the TRUTH.

In Christ’s Love,

 

[she_he]

RiverRock:

Oh here we go…I’m judging again. Wow, that you got all of that out of my statement is amazing. I’ll try this again:

If it’s in the catechism, it’s Catholic. If it’s not, it’s not. Period. How’s that for clarity? It’s not MY way of thinking. It’s the Catholic Churches way, as set up by Jesus. That was my point, it’s not MY way of thinking; it’s not YOUR way of thinking. It’s the Churches way. Seems like you are trying to Burger King it; and have it your way.

I never once said I knew everything. I’m still on my faith journey, as we all are, until we die.

Theresa said that someone said that we shouldn’t require too much of anyone, because they will leave. I agreed with her.

OK my post as posted looks bad I admit my wording is rotten at best, and I appologize if you took it personal because it was not supposed to be a personal post was supposed to be a generalized post and aimed at one sentence that I took you agreed with.

that being “we dont want a bunch of cafeteria Catholics”
and i got way off on a tangent,rereading it today I see the errors in how it reads…

I guess i should have simply put, we want (as the church, Cause WE are the church) everyone in the pews,we have no right to even think that a “semi” type follower shouldnt be there…

less than 6 months ago I was one of those people who seen the Catholic church as a “brainwashing cult” HOWEVER,By attending Mass regularly since May 2005 and attending the RCIA classes with my fiance ,Talking in serious conversations with our churches Father at our Marriage classes which started last fall,I have learned so much and have changed opinions on things i was taught about the Catholics,
just attending the mass made me rethink a lot of serious things and then go back home look the “books up” and read,read read, which caused me to get a slight better understanding,then we purchased a Youth bible to give to one of my boys,which we still havent done as of yet we been reading that and getting an even better understanding.
so now I am in the Conversion process myself,I am no longer a
“tagalong” to RCIA with my fiance,I am a very willing and enthusiastic participant,and a lot of it is because of the masses,
and how the people accepted me,and treated me just as if i had been attending for 40 yrs,nobody ever cut done my baptismal faith of Lutheran even at the RCIA classes before or since i started the conversion.

So that “everyone is welcome” is very very Important in my lifes turnaround. Thats why I jump so hard to defend that principle.

it had been 31 Yrs since i had been to a “church teaching” and even that was a Baptist sunday school.I was definatly on the wrong path,

So millions of sorrys to anyone whom took my posts as a personal post…
JOHN

 

[RiverRock]

she_he:

OK my post as posted looks bad I admit my wording is rotten at best, and I appologize if you took it personal because it was not supposed to be a personal post was supposed to be a generalized post and aimed at one sentence that I took you agreed with.

that being “we dont want a bunch of cafeteria Catholics”
and i got way off on a tangent,rereading it today I see the errors in how it reads…

I guess i should have simply put, we want (as the church, Cause WE are the church) everyone in the pews,we have no right to even think that a “semi” type follower shouldnt be there…

less than 6 months ago I was one of those people who seen the Catholic church as a “brainwashing cult” HOWEVER,By attending Mass regularly since May 2005 and attending the RCIA classes with my fiance ,Talking in serious conversations with our churches Father at our Marriage classes which started last fall,I have learned so much and have changed opinions on things i was taught about the Catholics,
just attending the mass made me rethink a lot of serious things and then go back home look the “books up” and read,read read, which caused me to get a slight better understanding,then we purchased a Youth bible to give to one of my boys,which we still havent done as of yet we been reading that and getting an even better understanding.
so now I am in the Conversion process myself,I am no longer a
“tagalong” to RCIA with my fiance,I am a very willing and enthusiastic participant,and a lot of it is because of the masses,
and how the people accepted me,and treated me just as if i had been attending for 40 yrs,nobody ever cut done my baptismal faith of Lutheran even at the RCIA classes before or since i started the conversion.

So that “everyone is welcome” is very very Important in my lifes turnaround. Thats why I jump so hard to defend that principle.

it had been 31 Yrs since i had been to a “church teaching” and even that was a Baptist sunday school.I was definatly on the wrong path,

So millions of sorrys to anyone whom took my posts as a personal post…

                    JOHN

Thanks John! Of course, everyone’s welcome! I think most of us started in the Cafeteria and as long as we grow, we slowly leave it. We are all the prodigal son in one way or another. I could tell you some of my past that would make a truck driver blush. If I was welcome, believe me, anyone would be. It’s not just the forgiveness that’s wonderful, but it’s the humbleness (is that a correct word?) that we take on that really turns us around. I can’t wait to hear how your first confession goes. You will feel like a million bucks. I’m really very very happy that you are coming into this glorious faith with your fiance. It’s definately a journey and as things are revealed to your mind and your spirit, I pray that you will come to know all the fullness in the Catholic faith that Jesus left us. Welcome brother in Christ.

 

[RiverRock]

JMJ Theresa:

River Rock, I understand your frustration that your zeal is being misinterpreted. I have noticed that on this forum, there is a wariness that we may be vulnerable to spiritual pride. That is definitely a danger. I think we all know that as far as ignorance of the faith is concerned, “there for the Grace of God, go I.”

I think we are on the same page with our concern for evangelizing our fellow Catholics. I don’t know why God has let the Church get to this state of ignorance. I know that I have to forgive over and over those people who failed to teach me the faith. Sometimes, I am filled with bitterness. My brothers and sister have left the Church. None of my cousins practice the Faith. I know people have children who have left the Church. How painful.

Lord Jesus, Come!

Hi Theresa. Yes, it is very very painful. I know 2 older couples very well, who have children my age, and not one of them attend Mass with them. Their children are more caught up in making money and keeping up with the Joneses to be bothered with anything so silly. My daughters are in Catholic school and I fear they will one day, dismiss it and leave it, and/or join a protestant sect for a more “entertainment” based church. I think that’s also part of the problem. Our culture is based on entertainment. Everyone wants to be “entertained” and to hear “feel good” topics. Of course, Mass doesn’t entertain, but I certainly do “feel good” when I leave there, just not in a way that’s obvious to the MTV crowd. The leaders and members of the Church have failed to instruct and pass along our faith. That’s got to change. I doubt many people who really know Jesus through His Church leave His faith. Just ones who never knew it well and never totally got out of the Cafeteria.

 

[otm]

ReginaNova:

Because it is easy to be Protestant and it is hard to be Catholic. Because the richness of the Catholic faith means there is a lot to grasp. Because our culture teaches us to question everything so we won’t believe unless we “agree” and we don’t readily accept authority. Because the Protestant youth groups stress the social aspects, community, fellowship, and each person’s “personal” relationship with Jesus. (I can’t speak to the Mormons.)

actually, this gets off topic, but it is because we not only don’t tithe, but we don’t even come close.

The largest single bill that goes into the collection is the $1, and it way out paces any other. People don’t give (ask any usher who takes up the collection wht percentage they estimate do not put anything in; ask whoever counts the collection, of the loose money, how the denominations count out.

Many of the more 'fundamentalist" congregation stress the need to tithe, and they have the money to hire 7 ministers, two of whom are youth ministers.

How many Catholic churches can hire even one full time youth minister; and how many of those actually pay a living wage for someone with a family?

but talk to Catholics, even once a year, in a very meek and mild comment about giving, and you’d think you just stepped into a vineyard for all the whine you get…

 

[OurLadyOfEfes]

JMJ Theresa:

We were discussing the Confirmation program at faith formation committee last night. When a small group of us were insisting that there should be some basic catechism knowledge required (e.g. gifts of Holy Spirit), one person commented that we shouldn’t require too much or people would leave the Church to go to a Protestant Church. Here is where I might have gone wrong.

I said, “Let 'em go. They will be judged on a higher standard if they stay in the Church. And, we don’t want a bunch of lukewarm Catholics.”

Eyes rolled, heads shook in disgust, and there was momentary silence.

Was that a horrible thing to say?

What you should have said was why dont we allow female priests and do away with confession or anything else the Church requires.

NOT!!!

Stick to your guns because what you said was true!

 

[kaymart]

OurLadyOfEfes:

What you should have said was why dont we allow female priests and do away with confession or anything else the Church requires.

NOT!!!

Stick to your guns because what you said was true!

Heck we could serve coffee and doughnuts instead and let people mingle around instead of Mass, The Mass can be so long and boring for them, that would make them happy. Seriously, You did the right thing and don’t say you are sorry, If anything THEY should say they are sorry for their rude eye rolling, shaking heads, ect.

 

[ReginaNova]

RiverRock:

My daughters are in Catholic school and I fear they will one day, dismiss it and leave it, and/or join a protestant sect for a more “entertainment” based church. I think that’s also part of the problem. Our culture is based on entertainment. Everyone wants to be “entertained” and to hear “feel good” topics.

Unfortunately, so true–that our culture is all about entertainment and “feel good” stuff. But fundamentally people tire of that stuff and that’s why the non-denominational mega churches and their youth ministries don’t really keep people for long. They get bored and drop out or move on to the next church that makes them feel good or has better entertainment.