Was/Is Mary the Ark?

[FaithJoy]

I have never said these verses are about Mary and the New ark nor do I understand why Mary would have to have existed before she was concieved since we clearly call her the ark of the NEW covenant that came through Christ.

Hebrews verse one: is referring back to psalm 110. Psalm 110 is a messianic psalm and how the messiah will be enthroned in heaven in the order of Melchizedek.

Verse 2: refers to the tabernacle in heaven

Verse 3: levitical priests offered blood of bulls and goats and of course in a superior way, Christ shed His blood in the final once for all sacrifice

Verse 4: Jesus was from the royal tribe of Judah.

Verse 5: they serve as a copy. Referring to both the tabernacle moses made and the priests before Christ were pale comparisons to the heavenly tarbernacle and Christ our high priest who brings the new covenant.

God looks at the world and its people as if He is looking at the beginning of time and the end of time on a poster board. He sees everything at once. He is not constrained to the hands of time. Time is only a “prison or constraint” to you and me. So, in God’s eyes,Mary WAS in existence before “we” knew her in time of her life on earth.

 

[elvisman]

According to verses already quoted, it’s not a New Ark but The Original Ark in Heaven.

Wasn’t Jesus slain from before the foundation of the world? In God’s eyes it is New.

And YOU need to go back and read post #88 where I explained the concept of eternity to you (yet again) . . .

 

[elvisman]

Hey Elvis Man you are the man .

Thanks - you’re far too kind, my friend!

Sometimes spiritual pride cause people to make all sorts of ridiculous claims about God and his Word and they need to be called out for it and exposed.

 

[FaithJoy]

And YOU need to go back and read post #88 where I explained the concept of eternity to you (yet again) . . .

I’m confused, are you saying we disagree? It seems that we agree on this one. I hope you didn’t think I was stealing your comparison to the artwork analogy when I used the poster board analogy. I promise, I didn’t see your analogy before I posted.

 

[MariaG]

God looks at the world and its people as if He is looking at the beginning of time and the end of time on a poster board. He sees everything at once. He is not constrained to the hands of time. Time is only a “prison or constraint” to you and me. So, in God’s eyes,Mary WAS in existence before “we” knew her in time of her life on earth.

But the poster thinks of it in more of a existence like Mary is divine or possibly reincarnated.

And neither of those are correct or possible if one is a Christian.

 

[Dokimas]

Precisely.
So, WHY would you think that John would refer to Mary as anything BUT “Woman” in Revelation when Jesus referred to her as “Woman” in his presence??

Seems you just accepted my correction. WOW.

 

[FaithJoy]

But the poster thinks of it in more of a existence like Mary is divine or possibly reincarnated.

And neither of those are correct or possible if one is a Christian.

My analogy wasn’t intended to give that idea. I guess I’m at a loss to describe it since I don’t know how that thought was understood to be my description.That is, I’m assuming when you say “poster”, you meant “poster board”?

 

[elvisman]

I’m confused, are you saying we disagree? It seems that we agree on this one. I hope you didn’t think I was stealing your comparison to the artwork analogy when I used the poster board analogy. I promise, I didn’t see your analogy before I posted.

No - I wasn’t disagreeing with you. I was talking to Dokimas.
Your analogy is right on!

 

[MariaG]

My analogy wasn’t intended to give that idea. I guess I’m at a loss to describe it since I don’t know how that thought was understood to be my description.That is, I’m assuming when you say “poster”, you meant “poster board”?

It is dokimas. And while you are correct and God exists outside of time, Dokimas is firmly planted within time. Dokimas apparently sees no way for this “existence” outside of some kind of divinty for Mary or possibly reincarnation.

In the context we (dokimas) have been in, there has been no reason to even explore the concept that God knows us before the womb.

I have trying to keep a very narrow focus

God bless,
Maria

 

[Dokimas]

No - I wasn’t disagreeing with you. I was talking to Dokimas.
Your analogy is right on!

I went back and I don’t think you’re following the discussion I had with someone else.

 

[Dokimas]

It is dokimas. And while you are correct and God exists outside of time, Dokimas is firmly planted within time. Dokimas apparently sees no way for this “existence” outside of some kind of divinty for Mary or possibly reincarnation.

Actually what I’m trying to do is make Biblical sense to the CC teaching that Mary is the New Covenant Ark.

In the context we (dokimas) have been in, there has been no reason to even explore the concept that God knows us before the womb.

 

[elvisman]

Seems you just accepted my correction. WOW.

Huh?? Here is what you said:
"John knew Mary so he would have called her by name, would he not? He seemed to be speaking symbolically like much of Revelation. The woman could be symbolic of Israel."

---

**I illustrated to you from John’s own Gospel that he referred to her (or rather Jesus did) as Woman. John calls her Woman in Revelation 12. **

As for your charge that the woman in Rev. 12 could be Israel - she IS. AND she is ALSO Mary.
I gave you a lesson in polyvalent symbolism in another thread. Polyvalent symbolism is the idea that multiple references can be drawn from a verse.

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

Well, guys,
Either you are a christian or you are not.

We can be one under that name.

Why you found it disrespectful is beyond me. I said she is His mom and that her correct title, beyond that of being mother of God, is “Woman”, the one whose seed crushes the head of the serpent. Her Son addressed her as that. I did no less.

She is not an ark. Or the Ark. By giving her such a title I think you’ve expanded her role beyond that which was intended for her.

Being “quite a gal” is no more disrespectful than Father Corapi saying “your mama wears combat boots”.

Thats true but my mother was NOT the Blessed Virgin Mary either!

Matthew

 

[onenow1]

.

Can’t you see this is ALL about CHRIST!?!?

God bless
Maria

Evidently not Maria, however the ancients used Mary to recognize Jesus as merely human no one special.

Here: Matt:54 and coming to his own country he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, “Where did this man get this wisdom and these mighty works?
55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
56 And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all this?”
57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country and in his own house.”
58 And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief

Boy did they dishonor His mother ! Vs. 58

Peace

 

[MariaG]

Actually what I’m trying to do is make Biblical sense to the CC teaching that Mary is the New Covenant Ark.

 

[Dokimas]

Huh?? Here is what you said:
"John knew Mary so he would have called her by name, would he not? He seemed to be speaking symbolically like much of Revelation. The woman could be symbolic of Israel."

---

I illustrated to you from John’s own Gospel that he referred to her (or rather Jesus did) as Woman. John calls her Woman in Revelation 12.

As for your charge that the woman in Rev. 12 could be Israel - she IS. AND she is ALSO Mary.
I gave you a lesson in polyvalent symbolism in another thread. Polyvalent symbolism is the idea that multiple references can be drawn from a verse.

Oh I see you don’t like admitting you were corrected. You corrected yourself this time in the().

 

[Dokimas]

And I am trying to help you

Thank you.

Just like everything else in our christian walk, no matter what you need to keep your focus on Christ. When you do that, it all falls into place.

Agreed.

These doctrines about Mary are all about who Christ is!

Only the correct ones.

You agree with all of the doctrine about Christ, the new covenant, the Word, that He is the manna from heaven?yes?

Yes.

The last thing to see is that calling Mary the ark of the New Covenant is simply affirming all that doctrine of Christ.

No comment.

And while you may not see it yet, the scriptural typology is so beutiful!

Correct Bible typology is great and as you say, beautiful.

God bless,
Maria

Thany you and God bless you.

 

[MariaG]

No comment

Maybe it is just because you are trying to be nice, but I see this as real progress

And just remember, one can come to understand AND agree with marian doctrine without ever agreeing with the dogma of the Catholic church as a whole.

There are quite a few perpetual virginity, immaculate conception, ark of the new
covenant beleiving protestants out there

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

 

[Dokimas]

Maybe it is just because you are trying to be nice, but I see this as real progress

And just remember, one can come to understand AND agree with marian doctrine without ever agreeing with the dogma of the Catholic church as a whole.

There are quite a few perpetual virginity, immaculate conception, ark of the new
covenant beleiving protestants out there

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

Well, progress can be made when comments are made without condescending to others or without being unkind. Thank you for your manner. I very much appreciate how you communicate what is special to you.

God bless you.

 

[MariaG]

Well, progress can be made when comments are made without condescending to others or without being unkind. Thank you for your manner. I very much appreciate how you communicate what is special to you.

God bless you.

Thank you for listening

Your sister in Christ,
Maria