Was Jesus’ predestined to death? That wasn’t avoidable?

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Needy1 said:
So God knew that they would murder with free will?
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God knew man would choose man & the ways of this world. Whether He came in the time of Adam & Eve, Noah, Joseph, Sodom & Gomorah, time & time again we make the same choices. Even today.

We choose power, money, fame, even self righteousness. Had God decided to send His son today we’d probably make the same choices.

& He’d still be willing to die for us.

& that’s the real message we should take from His sacrifice. It’s not about murder. It’s that He loves us. Always has, always will.

Once we understand that the question is how will we respond.
 
Cjbhoward said:
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Needy1:
So God knew that they would murder with free will?
Click to expand...
God knew man would choose man & the ways of this world. Whether He came in the time of Adam & Eve, Noah, Joseph, Sodom & Gomorah, time & time again we make the same choices. Even today.

We choose power, money, fame, even self righteousness. Had God decided to send His son today we’d probably make the same choices.

& He’d still be willing to die for us.

& that’s the real message we should take from His sacrifice. It’s not about murder. It’s that He loves us. Always has, always will.

Once we understand that the question is how will we respond.
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Nice post I like it, a lot of truth in it but still God is in control and His Universal Salvific Will, will be done, the whole Catholic Church praying for it (1058), we all should believe what we are praying for.

Phil.2:13; For it is God who works in you BOTH to WILL and to ACT in order to fulfil his good purpose.

Aquinas said, “God changes the will without forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.
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2022 The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man.

God effects everything, the willing and the achievement. … – (Thomas Aquinas, S. Th.II/II 4, 4 ad 3).
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God bless
 
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Hodos said:
Having read Ephesians 1 and Colossians 1, I would say yes, he was. Jesus wasn’t Plan B. Jesus was Plan A all along.

With regard to the free will question, I would say we don’t have free will. However, there is a difference between God having pre-destined his plan of salvation, and God being responsible for acting out sin. The fact is, God holds men accountable for their own sin and is still the God of all creation.
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Interestingly, God gives us sufficient grace that we have free will. Note from the Catechism:
1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. …
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http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a3.htm
Psalm 7 :11 God is a just judge, strong and patient: is he angry every day?
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steve-b said:
That’s how God thinks.
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For me personally I would not go there. Why God does what God does is not in either my or your intellectual capacity. We may at times think so, but then it’s better to repent and not presume to know how and what God thinks.
 
MichaelP3 said:
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steve-b:
That’s how God thinks.
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For me personally I would not go there. Why God does what God does is not in either my or your intellectual capacity. We may at times think so, but then it’s better to repent and not presume to know how and what God thinks.
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I quoted Paul not myself.

Tell me if I’m correct on this, are you following Calvin’s theology?
 
So if I state that God’s capabilities are beyond our intellectual capabilities and we should not presume to understand why He does what He does then I seem like a Calvinist?

Interesting, very Interesting indeed!
 
MichaelP3 said:
So if I state that God’s capabilities are beyond our intellectual capabilities and we should not presume to understand why He does what He does then I seem like a Calvinist?

Interesting, very Interesting indeed!
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When You disagreed with this point, that suggested to me what direction you might be coming at this from.
 
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Needy1 said:
If so, Caiaphas, Judas and some Israelites had no free will to prevent it?
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I seem to remember that when Judas sat down with Jesus and said he wanted to join him, Jesus looked at him bleakly and said “you shall know a tree by its fruit…come, join us”

First part of quote is Jesus knowing Judas’ free will decisions before he makes them, second part of quote is Jesus accepting that fate.

 
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God gives us free will, but also already knows what will happen in the future. He knows the sins we will commit before we do them.

Simeon told Mary at the Presentation of the Lord that her heart would be pierced. That this child would cause the rise and fall of many. He was given this knowledge by God, who knew that Jesus would be sacrificed on the cross.
 
Wherever one part of the Holy Trinity is present, they are all there.
 
God knows what we will choose but he still gives us free will to choose to do it.

It’s a modal logical fallacy to say foreknowledge by God prevents free will.
 
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Every our good decisions and every our good acts are the products of His efficacious graces. – Every our acts preordained from all eternity, so God knows every our acts from all eternity.

Without God’s gifts of efficacious graces we can choose and can do only acts of sins. – Sometimes God permits us to do acts of sins for the reason to convert our sins into good, this is a part of the process the way God makes us saints.

When God wills a person to perform a salutary act (e.g., prayer, good works), He grants him the means (an efficacious grace) that infallibly produces the end (the act willed by God).
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Phil.2:13; For it is God who works in you BOTH to WILL and to ACT in order to fulfil his good purpose.

St. Thomas teaches that all movements of will and choice must be traced to the divine will: and not to any other cause, because Gad alone is the cause of our willing and choosing. CG, 3.91.
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With efficacious grace, man is able to resist the grace but does not, because the grace enlightens the mind and infallible and freely choose the good.

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Jesus was predestined to die on the cross, that was not avoidable. – Acts 2:23; 1 Pet.1:19-20.

If God would willed to design/ plan this world without sin Christ would not had to die.
From our sins will come out greater good for the entire human race.
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Catholic Encyclopedia Divine Providence says;
Nor would God permit evil at all, unless He could draw good out of evil (St. Augustine, Enchir xi in; P.L. LX, 236; Serm.

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in; P.L.
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God bless
 
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