Was Jesus a Jew racially?

[Glorthac]

But wouldn’t that be shared genetic material due to shared ethnic backgrounds?

Could you maybe link to some of these studies?

I don’t think we agree to the use of the term “ethnic”. I am ethnically an American, because my culture is American. But I am racially Anglo-Saxon.

And genetic material is all there is to race. If I was genetically Chinese, I’d be racially Chinese. If I had the genetic material of the descendants of the Patriarch Judah, I’d be racially Jewish.

Genetics=Race.

 

[StJudePray4Me]

Basically yeah. If you are to limit your definition of who is a Jew to being descended from Jews, you are going to see some genetic similarities. But the diaspora has also created some significant differences too. “Autosomal studies have shown that Jewish populations share a common Middle Eastern ancestry and that over their history they have undergone varying degrees of admixture with non-Jewish populations.”
These articles are a nice summary of the studies. You could look at the reference at the bottom for links to specific studies.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew#Genetic_studies
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

This is really interesting. It’s a little difficult to wrap your brain around if it’s new to you though (which it is to me).

I’m just thinking of race differently though. I’m thinking in terms more about where in the world your genetic ancestors are from, and that religious identity is linked but not the same.

For example, I am descended from Irish and Italian people. So if you traced my ancestry back enough generations, you would get back to their pre-Christian roots. But I don’t think that makes me “racially pagan.” Does that make sense?

 

[samiam1611]

This is really interesting. It’s a little difficult to wrap your brain around if it’s new to you though (which it is to me).

I’m just thinking of race differently though. I’m thinking in terms more about where in the world your genetic ancestors are from, and that religious identity is linked but not the same.

For example, I am descended from Irish and Italian people. So if you traced my ancestry back enough generations, you would get back to their pre-Christian roots. But I don’t think that makes me “racially pagan.” Does that make sense?

That’s what’s interesting/complex about being a Jew. (Did you click on the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_jew link? It’s a cultural thing, a religious thing, a genetic thing…
In general, Jewish parents would love for their children to marry another Jew. Our existence has been threatened so many times in history that continuing the lineage holds some significance. And we don’t do the whole evangelism thing bc we like to stay a little bit exclusive! This explains why we have similar genes.
Our ancestors are from Israel. Despite the diaspora and mixed marriages, there is still something distinct about being a Jew isn’t there? Because even if a group of Jews moved away from Israel, they still stuck together. I feel like because of the cultural and religious suggestion or inclination to stay together, our genes have too. And this inclination doesn’t seem to be present so much in other cultures or religions. It is something unique about Jewish identity.
I’m so many things…I’m American. I’m Catholic. I’m Irish, German, Hungarian, and Russian. I’m atheist. and I’m Jewish. If someone said to a crowd and I’m in it, “who out there is Russian?” I’m not going to say Me! If they say “who out there is Catholic?” I’m not going to say Me!
I celebrate Christmas, not Hanukkah (anymore). I barely remember the story of Passover and never even heard about the Talmud until a world religions class I took in college. but if someone said “who out there is Jewish?” I would say ME!!! I have the genes of a Jew. I don’t have the genes of a Catholic. It’s a unique identity that may or may not involve the religion of one’s mother, the religion of one’s father, the ethnicity of one’s mother or father, the religion the person was raised as, the religion they are now, their nationality, and their upbringing (in a decidedly Jewish culture or household).
I used to feel uncertain when I would say I was a Jew…I knew I was, but seeing as how I didn’t know much about Judaism, I thought it was kind of a lie. Now I know that you don’t have to be religiously Jewish - in fact, you can even be a Christian or anything you want to be! - but you are still a Jew if your mother is.

 

[samiam1611]

Yes it can be debated. And I know there’s no such thing as Catholic genes. Catholicism is strictly a religion. Being Jewish is not strictly about religion.

 

[meltzerboy]

That’s what’s interesting/complex about being a Jew. (Did you click on the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_jew link? It’s a cultural thing, a religious thing, a genetic thing…
In general, Jewish parents would love for their children to marry another Jew. Our existence has been threatened so many times in history that continuing the lineage holds some significance. And we don’t do the whole evangelism thing bc we like to stay a little bit exclusive! This explains why we have similar genes.
Our ancestors are from Israel. Despite the diaspora and mixed marriages, there is still something distinct about being a Jew isn’t there? Because even if a group of Jews moved away from Israel, they still stuck together. I feel like because of the cultural and religious suggestion or inclination to stay together, our genes have too. And this inclination doesn’t seem to be present so much in other cultures or religions. It is something unique about Jewish identity.
I’m so many things…I’m American. I’m Catholic. I’m Irish, German, Hungarian, and Russian. I’m atheist. and I’m Jewish. If someone said to a crowd and I’m in it, “who out there is Russian?” I’m not going to say Me! If they say “who out there is Catholic?” I’m not going to say Me!
I celebrate Christmas, not Hanukkah (anymore). I barely remember the story of Passover and never even heard about the Talmud until a world religions class I took in college. but if someone said “who out there is Jewish?” I would say ME!!! I have the genes of a Jew. I don’t have the genes of a Catholic. It’s a unique identity that may or may not involve the religion of one’s mother, the religion of one’s father, the ethnicity of one’s mother or father, the religion the person was raised as, the religion they are now, their nationality, and their upbringing (in a decidedly Jewish culture or household).
I used to feel uncertain when I would say I was a Jew…I knew I was, but seeing as how I didn’t know much about Judaism, I thought it was kind of a lie. Now I know that you don’t have to be religiously Jewish - in fact, you can even be a Christian or anything you want to be! - but you are still a Jew if your mother is.

Although some Orthodox Jews (and there are divisions here as well) may consider you a heretic if you are a Reform Jew (even a Conservative Jew), they would still consider you Jewish. That cannot be taken away unless, as was pointed out, you convert to another faith. (Atheism does not count in this regard; you would simply be labeled a “bad” Jew!) Although even if you are a convert, you certainly have every right to consider YOURSELF Jewish although Jewish law may not agree. In addition, converts to Judaism (if the conversion is done properly) are every bit regarded just as Jewish as those born to a Jewish mother.

 

[meltzerboy]

Even from an Orthodox religious perspective, one would still be considered Jewish, although not a very good one! Certain Orthodox Jews prefer the continuum approach from more Orthodox to less Orthodox, rather than divisions in terms of Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform. In this model, the atheist Jew is considered the “least” Orthodox. (Other Orthodox Jews simply consider those who are part of Reform Judaism or Conservative Judaism as heretics, but still Jewish.)

 

[edowitz1]

Roman Catholic Doctrine Vs. The Doctrinal Teaching of the Word of God

Eternal life is a merited reward [1821, 2010]. - Roman Catholicism
Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23)

No one can know if he will attain eternal life [1036, 2005] - Roman Catholicism
The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God (1 John 5:13)

The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation [846]. - Roman Catholicism
There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)

Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and clean the soul [1030-1031]. - Roman Catholicism
Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross (Hebrews 1:3)

Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception (the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception) [490-492].
Mary, a descendant of Adam, was born in sin (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12)

Mary is the Mother of the Church [963, 975]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus ( John 2:1)

The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the Church. [85-87]. - Roman Catholicism
The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the church (John 14:26; John 16:13, I John 2:27)

The pope, as the Bishop of Rome, is the successor of Peter [882, 936] - Roman Catholicism
Peter had no successor, nor was he a pope.

The pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching [891]. - Roman Catholicism
God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19)

Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God [81, 85, 97, 182]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the Word of God (John 10:35, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21). Tradition is the words of men (Mark 7:1-13).

The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the Sacrifice of the Mass. [1364,1405, 1846]. - Roman Catholicism
The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7, Hebrews 1:3).

God desires that consecrated bread and wine be worshiped as divine. [1378-1381] - Roman Catholicism
God forbids the worship of any object, even t hose intended to represent Him (Exodus 20:4-5, Isaiah 42:8)

Justification is lost through mortal sin [1033, 1855, 1874] - Roman Catholicism
Justification cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies will be saved from the wrath of God (Romans 5:8-9).

Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works [1212, 1392, 2010] - Roman Catholicism
Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). In Christ the believer has been made complete (Colossians 2:10).

Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments [183, 1129, 1815, 2002]. - Roman Catholicism
Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation (Ephesians 2:10).

Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life [411, 493]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was a sinner; God alone is sinless (Luke 18:19, Romans 3:23, Revelation 15:4).

Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ [496-511]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary remained a virgin until after the birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:25). Later she had other children (Matthew 13:55-56, Psalm 69:8).

Each Sacrifice of the Mass appeases God’s wrath against sin [1371, 1414]. - Roman Catholicism
The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God’s wrath against sin. (Hebrews 10:12-18).

The Bishops, with the Pope, as their head, rule the universal church. [883, 894-896]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ, the head of the body is the Head of the Church. (Colossians 1:18).

The faithful receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure through the Sacrifice of the Mass [1366, 1407]. - Roman Catholicism
Believers receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure in Christ through faith (Ephesians 1:3-14).

God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and Earth [966]. She is to be praised with special devotion [971, 2675]. - Roman Catholicism
The name of the Lord is to be praised, for He alone is exalted above heaven and earth (Psalm 148:13). God commands, “You shall have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:3).

Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions 9 968-970, 2677] - Roman Catholicism
Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (1 Timothy 2:5, John 14:13-14, 1 Peter 5:7).

Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participate with Christ in the painful act of redemption [618, 964, 968, 970]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin (1 Peter 1:18-19).

The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the Sacrifice of the Mass [1323, 1382] - Roman Catholicism
The Sacrifice of the cross is finished (John 19:30).

Indulgences dispensed by the Church for acts of piety release sinners from temporal punishment [1471-1473]. - Roman Catholicism
Jesus releases believers from their sins by His blood. (Revelation 1:5).

The Magisterium has the right to define truth found only obscurely or implicitly in revelation. [66, 88, 2035, 2051]. - Roman Catholicism
No one has the right to go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6, Proverbs 30:5-6).

Scripture and Tradition together are the Church’s supreme role of faith [80, 82]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the church’s rule of faith (Mark 7:7-13, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

[samiam1611]

As a side note, I find myself interested in Humanistic Judaism. It really “works” for me, joining with other Jews to celebrate and experience being a Jew without the spirituality aspect.

 

[Will8503]

I’m so many things…I’m American. I’m Catholic. I’m Irish, German, Hungarian, and Russian. I’m atheist. and I’m Jewish. If someone said to a crowd and I’m in it, “who out there is Russian?” I’m not going to say Me! If they say “who out there is Catholic?” I’m not going to say Me!

How do you identify yourself as both Catholic and atheist? Does this mean you were raised Catholic, but now identify yourself as atheist? Also, why would you not say “Me!” if someone asked “who out there is Russian?” Russians share genetics too.

 

[samiam1611]

How do you identify yourself as both Catholic and atheist? Does this mean you were raised Catholic, but now identify yourself as atheist? Also, why would you not say “Me!” if someone asked “who out there is Russian?” Russians share genetics too.

My dad was raised Catholic and we celebrate Christmas. We used to do Easter, when we were kids. No one in my family actually considers ourselves Catholic, but I mean, we’re more Catholic than like, Hindu.
I don’t identify with Russian culture. I don’t know any Russian words and couldn’t name any Russian foods. I do know a little Hebrew (used to know much more) and Yiddish (well hardly any just a handful of words) and boy do I know Jewish food!
Jewish is this unique (and very flexible) combination of culture, religion, and genetics.

 

[StrawberryJam]

How do you identify yourself as both Catholic and atheist? Does this mean you were raised Catholic, but now identify yourself as atheist? Also, why would you not say “Me!” if someone asked “who out there is Russian?” Russians share genetics too.

Russians share their love of stealing land from Finland and killing Finnish people.