Was Jesus able to perform miracle?

[Bahman]

If there were no free will then there could be no expression of love or malice, and there would be no culpability.

Free will has noting to do with Love. Love is an emotion whereas free will is ability to decide.

To obey the will of God is a sacrifice of the human desires.

What is the point of this sort of sacrifice? God doesn’t need it. I think such a meaning has its root in the religions older than Christianity, like sacrificing animal or human to please God.

As quoted from the Catechism before “By his obedience unto death, Jesus accomplished the substitution of the suffering Servant”

Being a servant is meaningless unless it is mutual. I serve you and you serve me latter.

 

[LethalMouse]

Free will has noting to do with Love. Love is an emotion whereas free will is ability to decide.

You keep arguing Love is an emotion because you do not understand Love.

I think it is the Greeks who have like 20 words for Love in different forms… You are thinking only of middle school puppy love.

Love in a truest sense is not emotional, it is beyond and aside from emotion. I can hate someone emotionally and not love them at all emotionally…but yet still Love them.

This Love is really hard to explain But that is part of what you search for.

What is the point of this sort of sacrifice? God doesn’t need it. I think such a meaning has its root in the religions older than Christianity, like sacrificing animal or human to please God.

God does not need anything. Humans do. The sacrifice was to teach humans, much as a parent does something to show a child.

So think of it like this:

God: Do this no matter what!

Humans: ummm but what if it is hard???

God: See what I just did???

Humans: Oh… my bad.

Being a servant is meaningless unless it is mutual. I serve you and you serve me latter.

Serve God, get God.

 

[Vico]

Free will has noting to do with Love. Love is an emotion whereas free will is ability to decide.

What is the point of this sort of sacrifice? God doesn’t need it. I think such a meaning has its root in the religions older than Christianity, like sacrificing animal or human to please God.

Being a servant is meaningless unless it is mutual. I serve you and you serve me latter.

Love, meaning charity, is the meaning. This is reciprocal.

Catechism of the Catholic Church explains:

1970 The Law of the Gospel requires us to make the decisive choice between “the two ways” and to put into practice the words of the Lord. 26 It is summed up in the Golden Rule, “Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; this is the law and the prophets.” 27

The entire Law of the Gospel is contained in the “new commandment” of Jesus, to love one another as he has loved us. 28

26 Cf. Mt 7:13-14,21-27.
27 Mt 7:12; cf. Lk 6:31.
28 Cf. Jn 15:12; 13:34.

The sacrifice of the Paschal lamb is from Jewish tradition, given in the Torah, from the time of the Exodus (from Egypt), so now Christ is the Paschal Lamb, the symbol of Israel’s redemption at the first Passover. The sacrifice was necessary for the people. It is the fulfillment of Isaiah 53:11:

Because of his anguish he shall see the light;
because of his knowledge he shall be content;
My servant, the just one, shall justify the many,
their iniquity he shall bear.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

That is meaningless to me since God could simply forgive our sins.

How many of us ask for forgiveness?

 

[truetofaith]

What was the point of his death?

Because the sin of Adam & Eve caused the death of mankind…the death of God Himself ( as Jesus ) was required to redeem man.

Now Bahman, please stop busting our chops, because you like to argue & hear yourself talk!

 

[mikekle]

What was the point of his death?

I kind of see what you are saying, if God wanted it a certain way, he could have just ‘made it so’, no real need for him to actually die as a human man, in a way other humans die.

BUT, I used to wonder about this too, and the best answer I have seen is, while he did not really have to go thru all of that…HE DID, its really about the fact he went thru what he did on purpose, not if he could have achieved the same thing thru another way.

 

[truetofaith]

I kind of see what you are saying, if God wanted it a certain way, he could have just ‘made it so’, no real need for him to actually die as a human man, in a way other humans die.

BUT, I used to wonder about this too, and the best answer I have seen is, while he did not really have to go thru all of that…HE DID, its really about the fact he went thru what he did on purpose, not if he could have achieved the same thing thru another way.

They call it LOVE!

 

[Bahman]

Love, meaning charity, is the meaning. This is reciprocal.

Catechism of the Catholic Church explains:

1970 The Law of the Gospel requires us to make the decisive choice between “the two ways” and to put into practice the words of the Lord. 26 It is summed up in the Golden Rule, “Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; this is the law and the prophets.” 27

The entire Law of the Gospel is contained in the “new commandment” of Jesus, to love one another as he has loved us. 28

26 Cf. Mt 7:13-14,21-27.
27 Mt 7:12; cf. Lk 6:31.
28 Cf. Jn 15:12; 13:34.

Love is an emotion like others, such as hate which is opposite of love.

The sacrifice of the Paschal lamb is from Jewish tradition, given in the Torah, from the time of the Exodus (from Egypt), so now Christ is the Paschal Lamb, the symbol of Israel’s redemption at the first Passover. The sacrifice was necessary for the people. It is the fulfillment of Isaiah 53:11:

Because of his anguish he shall see the light;
because of his knowledge he shall be content;
My servant, the just one, shall justify the many,
their iniquity he shall bear.

There was no need for sacrifice. God can simply forgive our sins.

 

[Bahman]

How many of us ask for forgiveness?

I don’t think if there is any need to ask for forgiveness because God is love. We as rational agent either understand our faults and feel ashamed in this life or God explain our faults to us after our death. Plain and simple.

 

[Bahman]

Because the sin of Adam & Eve caused the death of mankind…the death of God Himself ( as Jesus ) was required to redeem man.

The story of Adam and Eve is a myth. Moreover why we are still dyeing if Jesus redeemed man.

Now Bahman, please stop busting our chops, because you like to argue & hear yourself talk!

I am very open to a reasonable idea. What you said fits you better.

 

[Bahman]

I kind of see what you are saying, if God wanted it a certain way, he could have just ‘made it so’, no real need for him to actually die as a human man, in a way other humans die.

BUT, I used to wonder about this too, and the best answer I have seen is, while he did not really have to go thru all of that…HE DID, its really about the fact he went thru what he did on purpose, not if he could have achieved the same thing thru another way.

There was no need to do anything. God is Love and forgives our sins.

 

[Vico]

Love is an emotion like others, such as hate which is opposite of love.

There was no need for sacrifice. God can simply forgive our sins.

God does forgive us yet there is the necessity for our sacrifice because we exclude ourselves from God when we choose to oppose the will of God. It is a sacrifice of self-will to love God instead of the lower appetites.

What the Gospel speaks of is the love of benevolence (charity) rather than the emotional meaning of love.

Modern Catholic Dictionary

love

To will good to someone. Also to please someone, either by sharing with that person what one possesses or by doing what someone wants. Basically there are two kinds of love. The love of concupiscence, or self-interested love, means that another is loved for one’s own sake as something useful or pleasant to the one who loves. The love of friendship means selfless love of another for that person’s own sake, for his or her good, to please him or her; it is the love of benevolence.

 

[truetofaith]

The story of Adam and Eve is a myth. Moreover why we are still dyeing if Jesus redeemed man.

I am very open to a reasonable idea. What you said fits you better.

You say Adam & Eve is a myth…Jesus redeemed man from eternal death in hell.

People have been giving you reasonable ideas over the last 130 posts. You will not believe them, or the Bible.

 

[Bahman]

God does forgive us yet there is the necessity for our sacrifice because we exclude ourselves from God when we choose to oppose the will of God. It is a sacrifice of self-will to love God instead of the lower appetites.

Why we should do such a sacrifice? God doesn’t need it and it is not apparent to me if it can grant us a better life.

What the Gospel speaks of is the love of benevolence (charity) rather than the emotional meaning of love.

I think you are talking about the sort of love that Mother and Father have for their children.

 

[Bahman]

You say Adam & Eve is a myth…

Yes, the story of Adam and Eve is a myth. We know by fact that we are the result of evolution.

Jesus redeemed man from eternal death in hell.

That doesn’t make any sense. God is Love so He can easily forgive our sins. He doesn’t need any sacrifice. The concept of sacrifice (animal and human) has its root in religions older than Christianity.

 

[Vico]

Why we should do such a sacrifice? God doesn’t need it and it is not apparent to me if it can grant us a better life.

I think you are talking about the sort of love that Mother and Father have for their children.

It demonstrates love of God, even though God does necessarily need our love.
It would bring eternal life in heaven rather than hell (self-exclusion).

The love word in Gospel of John in Greek is agape.

1 John 4:8:
ὁ θεὸς ἀγάπη ἐστίν
O Theos agape estin.
God is love.

 

[mikekle]

Yes, the story of Adam and Eve is a myth. We know by fact that we are the result of evolution.

.

Who would benefit if majority of people believed this? Who told us evolution explains our existence…the secular world, human scientists.

Of course the secular world is going to try to discredit God and the bible, it serves their agenda, draw people further and further away from God and the truth, plus, once they have the people believing these things, makes it easier to fool them with new lies.

The bible even warned over 2000 yrs ago that these times would come, and many people would fall for the lies.

 

[truetofaith]

Yes, the story of Adam and Eve is a myth. We know by fact that we are the result of evolution.

That doesn’t make any sense. God is Love so He can easily forgive our sins. He doesn’t need any sacrifice. The concept of sacrifice (animal and human) has its root in religions older than Christianity.

Evolution is still a Theory…even if all the animals evolved…the Bible states God created Man separately from the dust of the earth.

Because the sin of Adam & Eve caused the death of mankind…the death of God Himself ( as Jesus ) was required to redeem man.

Like I said, you don’t accept the Bible as Truth…so, end of discussion!