Was Jesus able to perform miracle?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bahman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Bahman said:
I don’t understand how that could be true (bold part) considering the fact that human are rational beings.

I think we have to be honest with ourselves to make sure that we don’t refuse facts permanently. That is simple mental exercise which allows us to understand ourselves and our believes otherwise we could simply be trapped in a wrong system of belief.
Click to expand...
Evidence abounds in this world that many refuse facts and refuse to understand themselves. Because of this, they are, in fact, trapped in their belief system, whether right, or wrong.
Are you sure that you are judging Pilate and Herod correctly? This seems to me that you are able to be inside their minds.
Click to expand...
How could you know if the other poster was judging incorrectly?
 
Bahman said:
But His resurrection allowed Him to ascent to Heaven so the question which is left is what was the sacrifice?
Click to expand...
Having a human nature (as well as divine) he suffered the passion, the cross, bodily death, the tomb, the descent to the underworld, etc.
 
Bahman said:
Yes, the denial can only be temporary. Consider the church case that they didn’t accept the fact that the earth moving around the sun and not vice versa. Now, they accept the truth.
Click to expand...
Maybe you forgot that Galileo also believed that the sun was a fixed point in the universe and everything else revolved around it. As opposed to other scientific minds of his day who believed that the earth was fixed and everything revolved around it.

Yes our understanding of the truth can change as we get more facts, but that’s not the kind of denial I’m talking about. I’m talking about people now, in this day and age of “enlightenment”, who fully believe that the earth is flat and will point to scientific evidence to prove it. Or those who refuse to see the climate change going on and have their own scientists on their side. Or those who refuse to acknowledge that an unborn fetus is a real human being even though scientists confirm that the fetus is alive and it is human. There are those who deny the moral truth that all humans are created equal and deserve the same respect no matter their color, creed or gender.
We as rational being can only accept an state of affair if it is supported by facts and it is anomaly free. Otherwise you are not honest with yourself. That is the lesson we learn form scientists effort for centuries.
Click to expand...
I’ve just given you some examples where rational human beings believe their own version of the truth no matter the facts.
Science is constantly subject to revision depending on the experiment. That is true because scientists accept the fact that they can only find truth through scientific method gradually.
Click to expand...
I can’t argue with that, since I am a rational human being :D.
 
Bahman said:
But His resurrection allowed Him to ascent to Heaven so the question which is left is what was the sacrifice?
Click to expand...
Hey Bahman…you will not accept anyone’s explanations on God’s loving sacrifice, and just keep taunting us…maybe you would be happier on an atheistic website!
 
davidv said:
Evidence abounds in this world that many refuse facts and refuse to understand themselves. Because of this, they are, in fact, trapped in their belief system, whether right, or wrong.
Click to expand...
I agree.
davidv said:
How could you know if the other poster was judging incorrectly?
Click to expand...
Only divine justice can allow one to judge people because we cannot be inside people minds and what they went through in their lives. We don’t have divine justice hence we should avoid judging people since our judgment could simply be wrong or biased with what we believe.
 
Vico said:
Having a human nature (as well as divine) he suffered the passion, the cross, bodily death, the tomb, the descent to the underworld, etc.
Click to expand...
We are all suffering in this world. Some less than Jesus and some more than Jesus. He is in Heaven now. So what was the sacrifice?
 
seagal said:
Maybe you forgot that Galileo also believed that the sun was a fixed point in the universe and everything else revolved around it. As opposed to other scientific minds of his day who believed that the earth was fixed and everything revolved around it.
Click to expand...
I think he did the best he could considering all the limitation. He is considered as Father of science.
seagal said:
Yes our understanding of the truth can change as we get more facts, but that’s not the kind of denial I’m talking about. I’m talking about people now, in this day and age of “enlightenment”, who fully believe that the earth is flat and will point to scientific evidence to prove it.
Click to expand...
Maybe people in a tribe in Amazon jungle. I haven’t met any one like that. Have you?
seagal said:
Or those who refuse to see the climate change going on and have their own scientists on their side.
Click to expand...
Maybe they just don’t care that much. We know that reserved fuel is also limited too but people simply don’t care that much.
seagal said:
Or those who refuse to acknowledge that an unborn fetus is a real human being even though scientists confirm that the fetus is alive and it is human.
Click to expand...
I think that fetus is in state of vegetation in its early state of being.
seagal said:
There are those who deny the moral truth that all humans are created equal and deserve the same respect no matter their color, creed or gender.
Click to expand...
That is true and it is only matter of time.
seagal said:
I’ve just given you some examples where rational human beings believe their own version of the truth no matter the facts.
Click to expand...
We are simply improving. Somewhere fast somewhere slow.
seagal said:
I can’t argue with that, since I am a rational human being :D.
Click to expand...
Cool. 😃
 
truetofaith said:
Hey Bahman…you will not accept anyone’s explanations on God’s loving sacrifice, and just keep taunting us…maybe you would be happier on an atheistic website!
Click to expand...
I am not taunting you. I am just discussing here and having a good time.
 
Bahman said:
I agree.

Only divine justice can allow one to judge people because we cannot be inside people minds and what they went through in their lives. We don’t have divine justice hence we should avoid judging people since our judgment could simply be wrong or biased with what we believe.
Click to expand...
Why “only”?

And why “justice”?
 
Bahman said:
We are all suffering in this world. Some less than Jesus and some more than Jesus. He is in Heaven now. So what was the sacrifice?
Click to expand...
So, it you end in heaven, will you then say you never suffered when in your current body?

Catechism:

Jesus substitutes his obedience for our disobedience

615 “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man’s obedience many will be made righteous.” 443 By his obedience unto death, Jesus accomplished the substitution of the suffering Servant, who “makes himself an offering for sin”, when “he bore the sin of many”, and who “shall make many to be accounted righteous”, for “he shall bear their iniquities”. 444 Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father. 445

443 Rom 5:19.
444 Isa 53:10-12.
445 Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1529.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top