Was Jesus able to perform miracle?

[vz71]

So he persist in his claim to be God knowing the fact that He would be killed. Doesn’t that mean that He was responsible for his death?

No. He is proclaiming truth.
That some cannot bear it has no bearing on him.

 

[Vico]

That is not completely true. You are using your computer right now and you depend on it. This is true because scientist have good understanding of subject matter, the knowledge related to what a computer is. That is however true that science is subject of constant change when it comes to explain reality. This is unavoidable until a complete description of reality is provided by science. Do you have a better alternative?

It is not a belief, to use or depend upon something produced through engineering. Note that practice and theory are different.

 

[truetofaith]

The difference between me and you is that you put the blame on people whereas I put blame on God. Who is right? Me. Why? Because to me an omniscient and omnipotent God can convince all people.

The Pharisees believed that Jesus was the Messiah …only they had a different idea of what He would do, and plotted His death.
God doesn’t force anyone to follow Him.

 

[Bahman]

It is not a belief, to use or depend upon something produced through engineering.

Your computer is the result of scientific finding. The scientists believe that such a product work because they know it. You believe that your computer works because you believe in science. How possibly you could deny scientific finding?

Note that practice and theory are different.

What do you mean? Moreover you didn’t answer my question: What is a better alternative than science to understand reality?

 

[Bahman]

In the words of Yoda:

“This is why you fail”

Why? Don’t you think that a omniscient and omnipotent God is not able to convince people? If yes, then why people are so scattered on existence of God?

 

[Bahman]

We have free will, allowing us to say yes or no to God. God provides all the graces necessary to be saved, and we should cooperate.

Free will has nothing to do with belief. Your belief is simply a state of mind that what you believe is true. God can simply provide us with facts that He really exist.

St. Paul said that God desires all to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth. He is all powerful, but he allows us the choice to say yes or no. If he gave us no choice to say yes, then there cannot be true love.

God does not have any desire. Moreover believing in God as it was mentioned in the previous comment has nothing to do with our choices.

Jesus obviously convinced people who he was, so this shows that they cooperated with his graces. Those who rejected him didn’t.

People who reject Jesus were not simply conceived. Why? Because they were not given any proper fact.

Yes, God gives some more graces. For ex. St. Paul was converted immediately because of his cooperation. A native American 1000 years ago wasn’t given the same grace, but the Church teaches that God provides the grace necessary.

We need facts to believe.

He is the unblemished lamb, He is the sacrifice for the sin of humanity.

A God who is love can simply forgive our sins. There is no need for sacrifice.

 

[Bahman]

You miss the point too were we are ALL given options.

Belief is simply a state of mind that what you accept is true. Belief doesn’t have anything to do with options or free will.

Pilate did not think via natural laws inclination thag Jesus was deserving of death. The “Judge” did so not becasue Jesus deserved death based on judgement but did so based on selfish decision of political convenience.

Do you mean that Jesus was not able to convince the judge that he is really God? That is impossible unless He simply accept His death because it was a part of plan? If it is so, we cannot blame judge who didn’t believe in Jesus.

Ergo a form of denial in which Pilate or the “Judge” jad ebough inclination to do what was “right” in the sense of acknowledging Jesus, but he chose the other path. Meaning that with the usage of denial Jesus could have done just about any miracle in front of Pilate and he would have found a reason to “justify” his death. If anything, Pilate may have been provided with just a sliver of option toward denial to protect him from chosing pure undenianle evil.

You cannot blame anyone if the death of Jesus was a part of plan.

 

[Bahman]

No. He is proclaiming truth.
That some cannot bear it has no bearing on him.

Why not? He was responsible for His life. His death also was part of the plan. Why He didn’t convince judge and accept His death? That sounds like a commit suicide by hand of someone else.

 

[LethalMouse]

Belief is simply a state of mind that what you accept is true. Belief doesn’t have anything to do with options or free will.

And your whole point is that Pilate would have to ACCEPT it.

denial
[dĕ-ni´al]
in psychiatry, a defense mechanism in which the existence of unpleasant internal or external realities is denied and kept out of conscious awareness. By keeping the stressors out of consciousness, they are prevented from causing anxiety.

ineffective denial a nursing diagnosis accepted by the North American Nursing Diagnosis Association, defined as denial that is detrimental to health when a person makes a conscious or unconscious attempt to disavow the meaning or even the knowledge of an event in order to reduce anxiety or fear.

medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Denial+(psychology

I am explaining that you have a choice to acknowledge or deny the truth no matter how proven it is in front of you.

Do you mean that Jesus was not able to convince the judge that he is really God? That is impossible unless He simply accept His death because it was a part of plan? If it is so, we cannot blame judge who didn’t believe in Jesus.

If free will is God’s thing than He would naturally allow the above answer…

You cannot blame anyone if the death of Jesus was a part of plan.

I am not worried about it hence this is not my inquiry thread. You are

 

[vz71]

Why not? He was responsible for His life. His death also was part of the plan. Why He didn’t convince judge and accept His death? That sounds like a commit suicide by hand of someone else.

Again, untrue.
He is not going to deny truth.
To do otherwise would be to indicate he was not who he said he was.

Perhaps you would have rather he lied to save his skin?

 

[seagal]

Why not? He was responsible for His life. His death also was part of the plan. Why He didn’t convince judge and accept His death? That sounds like a commit suicide by hand of someone else.

Suicide is an act of despair or a reckless disregard for life. People who commit suicide generally do so because they see no reason to live. Jesus lay down his life for us, in the same way a soldier might throw himself on a live grenade to save the lives of others nearby. That’s not suicide.

 

[seagal]

Belief is simply a state of mind that what you accept is true. Belief doesn’t have anything to do with options or free will.

Of course it does. You said yourself you have to accept the truth. That’s where the choice comes in. Have you never heard of anyone being in a state of denial, where they refuse to accept the truth even though it’s staring them in the face? (cough climate change cough) You personally make the choice **on faith **to believe what scientists tell you **-- **unless of course you personally did the research in astronomy, geology, evolution, etc., etc. You may have studied these topics, but you don’t know anything at all from first-hand experience unless you yourself did the experiments. You have to take someone else’s word and choose to believe they’re telling the truth.

You cannot blame anyone if the death of Jesus was a part of plan.

We don’t blame anyone but ourselves for Jesus’ death.

 

[Bahman]

Again, untrue.

What is untrue? He was able to convince the judge considering the fact that He is God. Instead he simply accept His death because that was a part of plan, to die for our sins.

He is not going to deny truth.
To do otherwise would be to indicate he was not who he said he was.

That is not the point.

Perhaps you would have rather he lied to save his skin?

No, simply use the power as God convince the judge. Was that impossible for God?

 

[Bahman]

And your whole point is that Pilate would have to ACCEPT it.

No, We accept truth because it is supported by facts.

I am explaining that you have a choice to acknowledge or deny the truth no matter how proven it is in front of you.

That is incorrect. We have no choice but to accepting the truth considering the fact that we are rational being.

If free will is God’s thing than He would naturally allow the above answer…

I don’t understand how your comment could be a proper answer to my question.

I am not worried about it hence this is not my inquiry thread. You are

That is a pointless comment.

 

[seagal]

No, We accept truth because it is supported by facts.

That is incorrect. We have no choice but to accepting the truth considering the fact that we are rational being.
.

You are obviously ignoring the many, many, many times in human history where someone simply ignored the facts and accepted as truth whatever they wanted it to be. Being rational doesn’t mean always recognizing the truth. It only means being capable of rational thinking, which doesn’t always lead to the truth. A simple look at where science went wrong through the ages will tell you that.

 

[Bahman]

Suicide is an act of despair or a reckless disregard for life. People who commit suicide generally do so because they see no reason to live.

Jesus also didn’t have any reason to live longer otherwise he could convince the judge. That was a part of plan to die.

Jesus lay down his life for us, in the same way a soldier might throw himself on a live grenade to save the lives of others nearby. That’s not suicide.

You cannot possibly justify death of Jesus for our sins. It is totally illogical concept.

 

[seagal]

Jesus also didn’t have any reason to live longer otherwise he could convince the judge. That was a part of plan to die.

That’s true, but that still doesn’t make his death a suicide.

You cannot possibly justify death of Jesus for our sins. It is totally illogical concept.

No I can’t justify it. God did.

 

[LethalMouse]

You cannot possibly justify death of Jesus for our sins. It is totally illogical concept.

Jesus rose and ascended into heaven. In some ways His death was lacking in effect to the Horror we tend to associate with it,

Per your peace thread… with peace lacks horror.

It showed humans the ULTIMATE human comprehendible image of LOVE. To a human what happened with Jesus would be the ULTIMATE acts of love a human can be involved in. It does not mean it was the best God can do. IT is the best we can comprehend.

 

[Bahman]

Of course it does. You said yourself you have to accept the truth. That’s where the choice comes in. Have you never heard of anyone being in a state of denial, where they refuse to accept the truth even though it’s staring them in the face?

Denial is just temporary. We are rational being so we cannot deny facts permanently.

(cough climate change cough) You personally make the choice **on faith **to believe what scientists tell you **-- **unless of course you personally did the research in astronomy, geology, evolution, etc., etc. You may have studied these topics, but you don’t know anything at all from first-hand experience unless you yourself did the experiments. You have to take someone else’s word and choose to believe they’re telling the truth.

We accept scientists because we believe in their method. You can see the outcomes of science on everything around you.

We don’t blame anyone but ourselves for Jesus’ death.

Why?

 

[vz71]

No, simply use the power as God convince the judge. Was that impossible for God?

And deny the people freedom to choose for themselves?