# Was Jesus deliberately ambiguous? #

[MonFrere]

How convenient for Evangelical Ed to leave out DISOBEDIENT TO PARENTS – Priests don’t marry!! To say this verse is specific to some club of celibates is crazy. Read the history of ANY SOCIETY in decline. These same traits ALWAYS pop up.

Besides can you say TED HAGGART can you say MIKE SWAGGART – can you quote documents that demonstrate the problem of pedophilia is a NATIONAL PROBLEM and not one specific group of celibate men. Do you want to see a group of rebellious kids that’s disobedient to parents – I’ve been around ministers kids and believe me they are not paragons of virtue. Do you want to see divorce? Look at evangelicals. We live in a fallen society. We’re all guilty. That’s a Mickey Mouse Argument. Clean up your own house Evangelical Ed. We’ve begun cleaning up ours.

MonFrere

 

[fhansen]

Matthew 24:24-25

For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time.

(The crowd cries out in dismay as the Protestant Powerhouse lands his first, earth-shaking blow!)

sure sounds like Pentecostals to me.

 

[fhansen]

2 Timothy 3:1-4

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God …

Let’s see, Carlie:

Lovers of themselves
Proud
Abusive
Ungrateful
Unholy
Without Love
Without Self-Control
Brutal
Treacherous
Lovers of Pleasure
Jimmy Swaggart, maybe? Or my old AOG Pastor who split up his new church?

 

[fhansen]

2 Timothy 3:1-4

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God …

Let’s see, Carlie:

Lovers of themselves
Proud
Abusive
Ungrateful
Unholy
Without Love
Without Self-Control
Brutal
Treacherous
Lovers of Pleasure

You know what that sounds like to me?

Jimmy Swaggart, maybe? Or my old AOG Pastor who split up his new church?

 

[joe370]

Socrates, congrats at being a complete buffoon and getting away with it, for so long on this thread. I think I finally figured out what your purpose/mission is, here at CAF! Christ is a joke to you. You remind me of someone who shares that same zeal… Any guesses who that might be?..I am truly impressed with your double handed duplicity.

Have fun…The moderator will eventually catch on to your total lack of sincerity… I have never seen such an ebb and flow, regarding Christ, in my life. No doubt you will be flattered…

 

[utunumsint]

Socrates, congrats at being a complete buffoon and getting away with it for so long, on this thread. I think I finally figured out what your purpose/mission is, here at CAF! Christ is a joke to you. You remind me of someone who shares that same zeal… Any guesses who that might be?..I am truly impressed with your double handed duplicity.

Have fun…

Hang on a minute. Our Catholic Carl is Rocky. So lets see if Soc will let his sock puppet have a comeback. There have been several suggestions put forth already.

Soc is far to honest to let Eddy win by throwing a couple of sucker punches like those.

God bless,
Ut

 

[joe370]

Acts Ch20; 28 “Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 I know that, after my departure, ravening wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30And of your own selves shall arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.”

***Is there some surprise that corruption could enter an institution inhabited by man? I think we have been fore warned of such things. Even though Jesus made His vow on behalf of His Church. You do accept all scripture, correct? ***

---

You are wasting your breath with Socrates, I’m afraid. Christianity is nothing more than an exercise in slow motion urgency, to him…He has helped me realize my shortcomings though: must spend less time here and more time at church; thank you Soc for your unwitting advice…

 

[utunumsint]

---

You are wasting your breath with Socrates, I’m afraid. Christianity is nothing more than an exercise in slow motion urgency, to him…He has helped me realize my shortcomings though: must spend less time here and more time at church; thank you Soc for your unwitting advice…

I cannot believe that Soc agrees with the obvious hypocrisy of Ed’s claims. Catholics do not claim a supperior moral position. A supperior Ideal, yes, certainly, but only in rare cases do men and women attain to this ideal. These we would call saints.

He also knows that we do not claim that the popes are impecable. So, hopefully, he will allow Carl to respond appropriatly in his own way, using his own dramatic devices.

Fell free not to tag along though. We all need to spend more time at Church.

God bless,
Ut

 

[fhansen]

I cannot believe that Soc agrees with the obvious hypocrisy of Ed’s claims.

we’ll find out.

 

[MonFrere]

I cannot believe that Soc agrees with the obvious hypocrisy of Ed’s claims. Catholics do not claim a supperior moral position. A supperior Ideal, yes, certainly, but only in rare cases do men and women attain to this ideal. These we would call saints. Ut

Also, Soc has been here since June 2004. That’s a LONG TIME to play a practical joke.

IMO – regardless – this venue for apologetics is a nice diversion, and actually kinda fun.

any Sammie left …

MonFrere

 

[joe370]

How convenient for Evangelical Ed to leave out DISOBEDIENT TO PARENTS – Priests don’t marry!! To say this verse is specific to some club of celibates is crazy. Read the history of ANY SOCIETY in decline. These same traits ALWAYS pop up.

Besides can you say TED HAGGART can you say MIKE SWAGGART – can you quote documents that demonstrate the problem of pedophilia is a NATIONAL PROBLEM and not one specific group of celibate men. Do you want to see a group of rebellious kids that’s disobedient to parents – I’ve been around ministers kids and believe me they are not paragons of virtue. Do you want to see divorce? Look at evangelicals. We live in a fallen society. We’re all guilty. That’s a Mickey Mouse Argument. Clean up your own house Evangelical Ed. We’ve begun cleaning up ours.

MonFrere

Good point MonFrere! Evangelical Ed and catholic Carl represent Socrates’s alter ego; 3 different pseudonyms by the same person. I don’t get it either! Address Socrates4Jesus when responding to evangelical Ed or catholic Carl, in regards to his salty and provocative propositions/comments.

 

[twb1621]

Good point MonFrere! Evangelical Ed and catholic Carl represent Socrates’s alter ego; 3 different pseudonyms by the same person. I don’t get it either! Address Socrates4Jesus when responding to evangelical Ed or catholic Carl, in regards to his salty and provocative propositions/comments.

Oh, you gave it away. I was just about to bring out the forth person in him.

 

[twb1621]

---

You are wasting your breath with Socrates, I’m afraid. Christianity is nothing more than an exercise in slow motion urgency, to him…He has helped me realize my shortcomings though: must spend less time here and more time at church; thank you Soc for your unwitting advice…

Too much time on his hands. He could have used it to read the Bible more often.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Actually, this refers to the coming of Christ of which He vowed the Church would not fall but be guided by the Holy Spirit until His return. This refers to the coming of false prophets and being cautious of those who claim to come in His name. Jesus will be as obvious as lightening from the east being seen in the west.

Notice the previous verses;
4 4 Jesus said to them in reply, "See that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars 5 and reports of wars; see that you are not alarmed, for these things must happen, but it will not yet be the end. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be famines and earthquakes from place to place. 8 6 All these are the beginning of the labor pains. 9 7 Then they will hand you over to persecution, and they will kill you. You will be hated by all nations because of my name. 10 And then many will be led into sin; they will betray and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and deceive many; 12 and because of the increase of evildoing, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the world as a witness to all nations, 8 and then the end will come.

You might be right, Tom. But Ed’s attack drives home the point of which Catholics rarely speak: The love of pedophiles within the Church has grown cold. These offenders do not appear to be the kind that perseveres. Rather, they seem the kind that become perverse.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Sure, it sounds like people sin. What has it got to do with the entire Catholic church apostacizing? Where does it say the church will fail? Instead, Jesus said it would withstand the gates of hell and that he would be with the church unitl the end of the age.

But that’s what bothers me, PC. Rather than resist those who are hell bound, the Catholic Church appears to embrace them. It gives me pause when i consider embracing Her.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Furthermore, it is a warning against heretics, who think they know more about Salvation than the Church Christ founded to spread the faith to the ends of the Earth. Those that think that Faith alone is a substitute for love in the economy of salvation.

If that is true, then how is pedophilia love in the economy of salvation? It seems to me that sexually molesting innocent young boys is more a cause of moral bankruptcy. And it’s a great concern for me.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

How convenient for Evangelical Ed to leave out DISOBEDIENT TO PARENTS – Priests don’t marry!! To say this verse is specific to some club of celibates is crazy. Read the history of ANY SOCIETY in decline. These same traits ALWAYS pop up.

Besides can you say TED HAGGART can you say MIKE SWAGGART – can you quote documents that demonstrate the problem of pedophilia is a NATIONAL PROBLEM and not one specific group of celibate men. Do you want to see a group of rebellious kids that’s disobedient to parents – I’ve been around ministers kids and believe me they are not paragons of virtue. Do you want to see divorce? Look at evangelicals. We live in a fallen society. We’re all guilty. That’s a Mickey Mouse Argument. Clean up your own house Evangelical Ed. We’ve begun cleaning up ours.

MonFrere

I’m not so sure Paul’s point was that if you commit only some of these sins and not all of them then it’s OK with Christ.

 

[MariaG]

I respectfully disagree, MG. Prayer is communication with one in heaven. Mary is in heaven. So communicating with her is prayer.

You can disagree all you want, but you are ignoring the historic meaning of the word to pray, which has narrowed in the last couple hundred years. In the last couple hundred years to pray mean communication with God alone. (Or one is not a Christian)

But all you have to do is look at old writings that contain phrases like “I pray thee husband would consider…” The wife is not praying to God, nor her husband but beseeching her husband to consider. Clearly, praying has not always meant beseeching those in heaven alone.

God Bless,
Maria

And I can’t believe this thread is still going!!!

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Jimmy Swaggart, maybe? Or my old AOG Pastor who split up his new church?

Yes, but Swaggart suffered the consequences for his sin. After the fact, he was permanently removed from ministry. I personally know two other men–some of the best evangelical teachers i’d ever had the privilege of sitting under, removed from ministry permanently for having committed only one sexual act with a consulting adult of the opposite sex outside of marriage. The people of their own congregations, and even their wives, forgave them, but the Church government whose authority they were under removed them from ministry. But i don’t see that happening in the Catholic Church. They homosexual offenders are not removed from ministry. They are merely moved to a different parish that is dangerously unaware of their past transgressions. And the good as well as the bad are moved from parish to parish, so no one knows who has committed such a heinous act and who has not. Such tolerance of sin seems contrary to the purpose of Christ.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Hang on a minute. Our Catholic Carl is Rocky. So lets see if Soc will let his sock puppet have a comeback. There have been several suggestions put forth already.

Soc is far to honest to let Eddy win by throwing a couple of sucker punches like those.

God bless,
Ut

Thanks for sticking up for me, Ut. Let Joe go, if he wants. And if he changes his mind and returns, i’ll still say, “Joe, i love you man!”