Was Jesus really born on December 25th? Dr. Taylor Marshall

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Merry Christmas !

I’ll give it a watch when I get up later. Thanks for posting.
 
There’s a couple of things he doesn’t seem to take into account here. First is the fact that the Gregorian calendar didn’t exist until the 1580s. It would’ve been impossible for the early Church to celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25 when the month of December itself didn’t exist.

Secondly, there is a tradition in the Church (yes, the Catholic Church) that celebrates the birth of Christ on January 9, not December 25.

Also, even Pope Benedict admitted that we don’t know with certainty the actual/exact date of Christ’s birth, and says that it likely took place in the spring (cf. the third volume of Jesus of Nazareth).

Then lastly there’s the issue that he claims the “Church teaches” Jesus was born on Christmas day. In actual fact, there’s no dogmatic definition on when the birth of Christ took place. The majority of the Catholic Church celebrates the birth of Christ on December 25, but I’ve often celebrated my own children’s birthdays on days that weren’t actually their birthdays simply so that I could more easily gather family and friends together to celebrate with me. The point is, there’s a difference between celebrating the day of Christ’s birth on Dec. 25 and teaching that Dec. 25 is the actual date of Christ’s birth.
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
There’s a couple of things he doesn’t seem to take into account here. First is the fact that the Gregorian calendar didn’t exist until the 1580s. It would’ve been impossible for the early Church to celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25 when the month of December itself didn’t exist.
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Prior to the Gregorian calendar being adopted the Church in East and West used the Julian Calendar. The Julian Calendar has the month of December along with the other eleven months, and for many centuries the Church had almost uniformly (except for a few locales) been celebrating Christmas on December 25th. In fact, many of the eastern churches still do celebrate on December 25th, but not the December 25th of the Gregorian Calendar but December 25th of the Julian Calendar which they still use for dating liturgical solemnities/feasts, which now falls in the January of the Gregorian Calendar (since the Julian Calendar is less accurate to the solar year the date has been drifting further out over the centuries). The Gregorian Calendar didn’t throw out the Julian Calendar so much as revised/corrected it in order to make it more accurate to the solar year. They also adjusted the date such that the vernal equinox of the Gregorian Calendar would match the solar date of the vernal equinox in the Julian Calendar at the time the Easter Computus was first adopted.

Anyway, we celebrate Jesus’ birth on Dec. 25th, but no, we don’t know with certainty when his birth was. As early as Chrysostom, if not earlier, though, it can be said that arguments were put forward that Dec. 25th could be reasoned out from the chronology of events in Luke. We don’t need to die on that hill, but still it’s an interesting counterpoint to the “traditional” skepticism in popular culture to the date.
 
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Phillip_Rolfes said:
There’s a couple of things he doesn’t seem to take into account here. First is the fact that the Gregorian calendar didn’t exist until the 1580s. It would’ve been impossible for the early Church to celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25 when the month of December itself didn’t exist.

Secondly, there is a tradition in the Church (yes, the Catholic Church) that celebrates the birth of Christ on January 9, not December 25.

Also, even Pope Benedict admitted that we don’t know with certainty the actual/exact date of Christ’s birth, and says that it likely took place in the spring (cf. the third volume of Jesus of Nazareth ).

Then lastly there’s the issue that he claims the “Church teaches” Jesus was born on Christmas day. In actual fact, there’s no dogmatic definition on when the birth of Christ took place. The majority of the Catholic Church celebrates the birth of Christ on December 25, but I’ve often celebrated my own children’s birthdays on days that weren’t actually their birthdays simply so that I could more easily gather family and friends together to celebrate with me. The point is, there’s a difference between celebrating the day of Christ’s birth on Dec. 25 and teaching that Dec. 25 is the actual date of Christ’s birth.
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Exactly… on all counts. .

Fact is,
it’s generally realized that Jesus was not even born in the year 1 AD or even 0 AD for that matter.

And unto themselves, Cathoic Clergy…
do not possess the Authority of The Church when they put forth opinions…

_
 
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Thanks for the feedback. It’s not necessarily a hill I die on. Just out of curiosity did you watch the video link I posted, because I was wondering what your thoughts about the video arguments were if they are good arguments or not?
 
It could have been noted that for Jesus
  • 25 December was the date of the Festival of Lights -
    however that impacts upon the question.
.
 
RaisedCatholic said:
MERRY CHRISTMAS, EVERYONE!!!

Even though this has been discussed numerous times, even by Dr. Taylor Marshall, I noticed he just posted this a few days ago, and I thought today would be the right day to post this. I took the time to watch it, and I thought it was a good argument. What do you think (after first watching it, of course)?

Yes, Jesus was born on Dec 25! Dr Marshall proves Dec 25 birth of Christ
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Frankly, it doesn’t really matter what the actual date of his birth was.
 
I did watch the video, yes. I found his argument weak at best. I’m not saying a good case for a Dec. 25 birth of Our Lord couldn’t be made; just that he didn’t make it.

Many modern biblical scholars contest the idea, and the fact that a handful of early Church Fathers attempted to “prove” that Jesus was born on Dec. 25 only shows that the issue wasn’t settled even for the early Church.

Instead of listening to Dr. Marshall try and prove himself via his math exercise, I would’ve preferred to have heard who the Church Fathers he referred to were, and what they had to say (as well as what other Church Fathers may have said that wasn’t in favor of a Dec. 25 birth). I would’ve also liked to have heard why modern biblical scholars dismiss the idea of a Dec. 25 birth, rather than the usual drivel we hear from the secular media about the winter solstice and the various pagan festivals.
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
It would’ve been impossible for the early Church to celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25 when the month of December itself didn’t exist.
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Untrue. In 47 BC Julius Caesar enacted his calendar reform, but he didn’t change the names of the months. There had already been a month called “December” for many centuries.
 
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EndTimes said:
it’s generally realized that Jesus was not even born in the year 1 AD or even 0 AD for that matter.
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There is no such year as “0 AD”. The year before AD 1 is 1 BC.
 
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Most pagans didn’t want to give up yuletide so the church just switched out “the reason for the season.” Most people acknowledge it but are oddly okay with this cultural appropriation.
 
Merry Christmas, one and all! Happy 4th Day of Christmas (“calling birds”, so watch the minutes on your cell phone plan; or they could be “colly [ or “black” ] birds”, suitable for making pies.) And, of course, Happy 7th Day of Hanukkah! (gesundheit) ( 😈 )

I have to give Dr. Marshall props for bringing up an issue that, by reading all these Protestants giving lines of reasoning, I totally ignored: Moms always, ALWAYS, remember the details of every birth!

I can’t confirm that Jesus was born on the first day of Hanukkah, partly because we don’t know the actual year of the birth, and partly because my Hebrew date converter of choice (hebcal.com) doesn’t do dates before 1752 C.E. because they don’t want to try to account for Pope Gregory’s calendar innovations, and anyway, if you try to enter a date that’s BCE, the site will just point at you and laugh. However, it’s reasonable to assume so, given the confluence of Gregorian and Hebrew calendars.

And no, Mary would not have given a broken matzo as to when the ROMANS said the date was; but when the Apostles and other disciples would write, teach, or preach about the event, they would have converted the Hebrew date to the Julian calendar. Ergo, December 25.
 
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The reality is that we do not know the date or year of the birth of Jesus, nor do we know the date or year Jesus died. We don’t know old old he was when he died. Before anybody jumps on me saying he was 33 when he died that may or may not be true. We don’t know. Scripture simply states he was ABOUT 30 when he started his public ministry. That could could mean late 20’s to mid 30’s.
While all of these things would be interesting information to have it has absolutely no bearing on our faith or salvation.
 
Anrakyr said:
Most pagans didn’t want to give up yuletide so the church just switched out “the reason for the season.”
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Yuletide has nothing to do with the origin of Christmas. Nothing at all. Yule is a Viking (Scandinavian or Old Norse) festival. The Vikings were unknown to Greek and Roman antiquity and to the early Church. They didn’t appear on the scene until several centuries later, after the year 700.
 
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BartholomewB said:
There is no such year as “0 AD”. The year before AD 1 is 1 BC.
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YES - That’s well known…

Which … also contributed to a mistake in the Calendar Year
  • for ZERO AD was never factored into the Figuring of the Calendar
  • based upon Messiah Jesus’ Birth
 
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