Was Jesus' Sacrifice Suicide?

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iam1me said:
No he didn’t desire his own death, but he chose to die all the same in order to fulfill the scriptures. He did willingly choose to die even if didn’t desire to die.
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Soldiers do not desire their own death, but they willingly choose to die for their country. Are they committing suicide? No.

Jesus did not commit suicide.

You are twisting the definition you posted in the OP.
“ 1 the intentional taking of one’s own life.”

Jesus did not take his own life. He was killed by others.
 
halogirl said:
Simple one - Suicide is grave matter because only God can take life. Jesus is Part of the trinity so therefore God so He is the one allowing the taking of life ultimately, so it’s not sinful and therefore not suicide
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That appears to be part the problem: I don’t think the OP understands that Jesus is God ; Jesus is “life” The whole reason suicide is a sin is because our life and every human life belongs to God - not to us. God is life’s author.
iam1me said:
Or, suicide isn’t sinful. Or further qualifications are necessary to distinguish the conditions under which suicide should be considered sinful 😉

The scriptural testimony at least appears quite clear that Jesus sought his own death. His words in John in particular match up exactly with the definition of suicide.
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Maybe you would find it helpful to re-read this part of John’s Gospel again:
NAB John 10:17-18
“This is why the Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again.
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own. I have power to lay it down, and power to take it up again. This command I have received from my Father.”
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He laid it down to take it up again, and to take us up with Him. He is God.
McDale721 said:
Catholicism does not rely on Oxford/Webster dictionary definitions for theological concepts. Suicide is ultimately an act of despair. Sacrifice is not (so a sacrifice cannot be suicide). If in an attempt to save someone’s life one takes an action that results in his death (he died pushing the little girl out of the way of that truck), it what society/culture/religion would this be considered suicide?
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The true Catholic definition of suicide from Fr. John Hardon’s Modern Catholic Dictionary
SUICIDE. The direct killing of oneself on one’s own authority. It is a grave sin against the natural and revealed law. The suicide offends against the divine precept “You shall not kill.” One causes grave injury to the welfare of society and violates the virtue of charity to oneself. God is the supreme and exclusive owner of all things, so that exercising ownership over life is lawful only to God. He alone can take human life when he wills. The one who directly takes his or her own life violates the rights of God. (Etym. Latin sui , self + cidium , a killing.)
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Jesus was crucified. One cannot crucify themself.

If I understand correctly, you’re making the argument that since Jesus knew He was going to be killed, and went willingly, He committed suicide. A bad comparison I know, but does a person on death row commit suicide? I’d argue no. The prisoner knows what his fate is and when, but doesn’t go out of their way to prevent it (because they’re unable to).

Thoughts?
 
Incidentally, Fr. John Hardon also gave a talk on what he coined "Sexual Suicide " - way back in 1999: He saw it coming before we did, God rest his soul.

The article is over at realclearreligion . (Looks like about 2 pages or less in length).
Here’s the link:

SEXUAL SUICIDE by Father John Hardon, S.J.
 
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Sacrificing your life and giving it away are two exact opposites. In first you fulfill it’s meaning - to praise God and be charitable and sacrifice for someone else. In second you neglect meaning of life. We don’t live to just live, we have a purpose. Life is important but not most important. To give it away for nothing is sin- to die for something is a virtue.
 
Why do we have to use your definition. There is a Catholic definition, understand that then restate your argument. Catholic theology does not depend on English dictionary definitions.
 
McDale721 said:
Why do we have to use your definition. There is a Catholic definition, understand that then restate your argument. Catholic theology does not depend on English dictionary definitions.
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Apparently, because its the one that supports his position, providing he ignores that other points made in this thread contrary to his assertions.
 
One question: Why did you start “looking into” His death?

Remember that we cannot humanize the Divine.
 
No Jesus was doing the will of his Father.

People who commit suicidal normally see no other option.
 
iam1me said:
I’ve recently started looking into whether or not it is proper to classify Jesus’ sacrifice as suicide.
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This question gets raised periodically - usually by non-Christians.
At any rate — Jesus was sentenced to death by the Jewish Leadership -
who in turn turned Him over to Pilate to be their Executioner…

In Jesus’ Human Nature - He was a prisoner - captured by Temple Guards.

_
 
iam1me said:
@Zaccheus Desire is irrelvant to the definition of suicide. What matters is intent - and he intended to die. He could have not died if he so chose - instead he explicitly laid down his life (no one taking it from him, according to his own words).
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Intent matters. Jesus intended to sacrifice His own life to save others. Self-sacrifice is not suicide.
The soldier who dives on a grenade to save his squadmates is not committing suicide-- he doesn’t want to die. If he could drop a steel plate on the grenade instead of using his own body, he would do so.
He’s sacrificing his life for his friends. Jesus sacrificed His life for us all.
 
Zaccheus said:
He submitted for love of us.
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Love what you said here, that He submitted to the will of God.

We all need to discern what God’s will is for us, and then pray for His will to be our will.

Its really hard to submit to God, as Jesus demonstrated when in His humanity, He asked for this cup to pass.

“Thy will be done, on Earth as it is in heaven”…we pray this every day!

Asking for His will to be done is a staple of our prayer lives.

We say the Our Father all the time.

Jesus gave us this prayer, so think about what God willed for us, as well as for His son.
 
To atone for sin, sacrifice goes way back to Leviticus

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iam1me said:
If you willingly walked over to a pack of Lions, or to a Bear Cub with the intent that the Lions/Mother Bear would kill you - would that not be considered suicide?
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Yes it would.

It is important to realise that the lions and bears have no spiritual agency to distinguish between right and wrong.

The Sanhedren and Romans did have spiritual agency. Jesus committed no sin against these people. The sin was theirs’ in willingly killing an innocent ‘man’.

It is also important to realise that Jesus is the incarnation of God and His ‘immortal soul’ was not at stake or in doubt with His death, unlike the rest of us.
 
No, it wasn’t. He allowed others to take His life and for a very specific purpose.

Suicide is when a person takes its own life in order to escape it.
 
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