Was Jesus the only sinless person ever to be born?

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PaulinePresbytr said:
He was God, but also man. Mary was mother of the man part, not the God part as Mary was born probably around 20-15 BC, give or take a year or two, and Jesus has existed eternally.
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Christ is only one person. His Divine and human natures are truly united.

How could Mary possible give birth to “the man part”. You can’t separate the Divine from the human in Christ. Christ was always God, from the beginning of time. At the instant Christ was conceived in Mary’s womb, she was bearing God.

God Bless
 
bilop said:
Those aren’t Catholic Bibles.

The Vulgate/Douay Reims (literal translation of the Vulgate) is over 1000 years older than the KJV.

The KJV is essentially a political document, written to justify Protestantism.

God Bless
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The Vulgate is, and was used in debates during the reformation by Calvinists
 
bilop said:
Christ is only one person. His Divine and human natures are truly united.

How could Mary possible give birth to “the man part”. You can’t separate the Divine from the human in Christ. Christ was always God, from the beginning of time. At the instant Christ was conceived in Mary’s womb, she was bearing God.

God Bless
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She was bearing him, she did not create him.
 
bilop said:
How is that different than any mother? A mother does not “create” her child. God creates us all.

God Bless
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It disproves the “Mary gave birth to God
An imperfect maker can’t make something perfect
God is perfect
Mary is perfect”
Logic you’ll find earlier in the thread
 
PaulinePresbytr said:
It disproves the “Mary gave birth to God
An imperfect maker can’t make something perfect
God is perfect
Mary is perfect”
Logic you’ll find earlier in the thread
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She did give birth to God. She conceived Christ in her womb and gave birth to him. Christ is God, always and inseparably. Of course she did not create Christ, Christ is not created. He is creator not creation.

Go straight to St. Luke, Ch.1
And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [Luke 1:28] [Latin] [29] Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
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[31] Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. [33] And of his kingdom there shall be no end. [34] And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? [35] And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
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God Bless
 
PaulinePresbytr said:
He was God, but also man. Mary was mother of the man part, not the God part as Mary was born probably around 20-15 BC, give or take a year or two, and Jesus has existed eternally.
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So, in your opinion, Jesus was both God and man the second He was outside the womb of Mary?
 
PaulinePresbytr said:
She was not the mother of God, she did not bear the everlasting God. She was merely the vessel through which God manifested himself in the flesh. Christ interacted with sinners didn’t he, how could he do that without them being perfect, according to your logic?
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Well then as Christ interacted with men therefore was a “man” and since you “calvinist” tenet that all humans are depraved. Christ was depraved and a sinner!

You better rethink your theology methinks :rolleyes:
 
bilop said:
She did give birth to God. She conceived Christ in her womb and gave birth to him. Christ is God, always and inseparably. Of course she did not create Christ, Christ is not created. He is creator not creation.

Go straight to St. Luke, Ch.1

God Bless
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The point is that an imperfect mother can very well give birth to a perfect son (suggesting aforementioned son is God)
 
PaulinePresbytr said:
It was with regards to all people besides Christ being sinners, which was what was asked for.
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Romans 6 doesn’t say that.

Here’s the whole thing.
[1] What shall we say, then? shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. For we that are dead to sin, how shall we live any longer therein? [3] Know you not that all we, who are baptized in Christ Jesus, are baptized in his death? [4] For we are buried together with him by baptism into death; that as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life. [5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.
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[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin may be destroyed, to the end that we may serve sin no longer. [7] For he that is dead is justified from sin. [8] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall live also together with Christ: [9] Knowing that Christ rising again from the dead, dieth now no more, death shall no more have dominion over him. [10] For in that he died to sin, he died once; but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God:
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[6] Our old man: Our corrupt state, subject to sin and concupiscence, coming to us from Adam, is called our old man, as our state, reformed in and by Christ, is called the new man.
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[6] Body of sin: The vices and sins, which then ruled in us, are named the body of sin.
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[11] So do you also reckon, that you are dead to sin, but alive unto God, in Christ Jesus our Lord. [12] Let no sin therefore reign in your mortal body, so as to obey the lusts thereof. [13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of iniquity unto sin; but present yourselves to God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of justice unto God. [14] For sin shall not have dominion over you; for you are not under the law, but under grace. [15] What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
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[16] Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are whom you obey, whether it be of sin unto death, or of obedience unto justice. [17] But thanks be to God, that you were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart, unto that form of doctrine, into which you have been delivered. [18] Being then freed from sin, we have been made servants of justice. [19] I speak an human thing, because of the infirmity of your flesh. For as you have yielded your members to serve uncleanness and iniquity, unto iniquity; so now yield your members to serve justice, unto sanctification. [20] For when you were the servants of sin, you were free men to justice.
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[21] What fruit therefore had you then in those things, of which you are now ashamed? For the end of them is death. [22] But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto sanctification, and the end life everlasting. [23] For the wages of sin is death. But the grace of God, life everlasting, in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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God Bless
 
PaulinePresbytr said:
She bore God manifest in the flesh, she did not make God. She would only have to be perfect if she made a perfect God, which she did not. She merely had him manifest in the flesh inside of her for 9 months
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Why would anyone believe that Mary made (created) Jesus? God created Jesus in Mary’s womb, via the power of the holy spirit, and Mary carried Jesus to term.
 
PaulinePresbytr said:
The point is that an imperfect mother can very well give birth to a perfect son (suggesting aforementioned son is God)
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But she wasn’t imperfect, she was “Full of Grace”.

Why would God allow His mother to be touched by sin?

God Bless
 
joe370 said:
Why would anyone believe that Mary made (created) Jesus? God created Jesus in Mary’s womb, via the power of the holy spirit, and Mary carried Jesus to term.
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Look earlier in the thread, it is necessary for that to be the case for some of the logic used
 
bilop said:
But she wasn’t imperfect, she was “Full of Grace”.

Why would God allow His mother to be touched by sin?

God Bless
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Who’s grace? Gods. He very well may have regenerated her soul from conception, just as he did John the Baptist, but that doesn’t make her perfect
 
PaulinePresbytr said:
The point is that an imperfect mother can very well give birth to a perfect son (suggesting aforementioned son is God)
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Pauline, since no protestant believes that the catholic church leadership or the protestant church leadership, (regardless of denomination) can teach infallibly regarding the teaching of Mary, (in terms of whether or not Mary gave birth to just the man, Jesus, or both God and man) what is your basis for claiming to be right ie why should I believe you, respectfully speaking of course? Why shuld I trust your church traditions or your interpretation of your bible?
 
PaulinePresbytr said:
She was not the mother of God, she did not bear the everlasting God. She was merely the vessel through which God manifested himself in the flesh. Christ interacted with sinners didn’t he, how could he do that without them being perfect, according to your logic?
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Third Ecumenical Council:

If anyone will not confess that the Emmanuel is very God, and that therefore the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (Θεοτόκος), inasmuch as in the flesh she bore the Word of God made flesh [as it is written, “The Word was made flesh”] let him be anathema.
 
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