Was Jesus the only sinless person ever to be born?

[bilop]

Why would anyone believe that Mary made (created) Jesus? God created Jesus in Mary’s womb, via the power of the holy spirit, and Mary carried Jesus to term.

God did not “create Jesus”, certainly not in the late 1st century BC. Jesus is God, “born of the Father before all ages”, “begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father”.

God Bless

 

[Edward_H]

It was fitting that God formed Mary sinless, a pure tabernacle, for His Word.

 

[ConstantineTG]

God did not “create Jesus”, certainly not in the late 1st century BC. Jesus is God, “born of the Father before all ages”, “begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father”.

God Bless

If you want to be technical about it, and this is coming from Nestorius who taught a heresy, that Jesus is the man, and The Word is God. What Nestorius taught is that they are separate, rather than being one and the same person. So in a sense you can indeed say that Jesus is created, in the sense that you are referring to The Son of Man. The Word, who is the Son of God, is Eternal.

 

[joe370]

God did not “create Jesus”, certainly not in the late 1st century BC. Jesus is God, “born of the Father before all ages”, “begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father”.

God Bless

I was referring to the Jesus incarnate…The Father, Son and the HS are all one, existing before time and space.

 

[Razanir]

Who’s grace? Gods. He very well may have regenerated her soul from conception, just as he did John the Baptist, but that doesn’t make her perfect

I’d check your grammar there. The way it’s written now, you’re saying multiple gods are grace. (Should be “Whose grace? God’s”)

It does, we all are in a corrupt state, are all deserving of hell.

We were in a corrupt state (Original Sin), but were born again in Baptism. By the saving power of Baptism, we are freed from sin and made worthy of Heaven. Now being human, we unfortunately do fall back to sin, but that’s what Confession’s for

 

[bilop]

It does, we all are in a corrupt state, are all deserving of hell.

But it doesn’t say that, certainly not about Mary. The letter is addressed to the Christians in Rome. Why would it refer to Mary at all?

And, in any case, Paul explicitly says “our old man” (the corrupt state you mention) is vanquished by Christ. Once we are baptized, and are in a state of Grace (no mortal sin) we are not corrupt. We will have life everlasting.

God Bless

 

[JerryZ]

She was bearing him, she did not create him.

So how do you reconcile that with what the Angel said to her?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Born of her?
You state she was “bearing him”
Are you implying that God circumvented nature and plopped into Mary’s womb because that is possibly a new twist to how God manifested his salvific process.

 

[PaulinePresbytr]

Third Ecumenical Council:

If anyone will not confess that the Emmanuel is very God, and that therefore the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (Θεοτόκος), inasmuch as in the flesh she bore the Word of God made flesh [as it is written, “The Word was made flesh”] let him be anathema.

It means to denounce anti - trinitarianism, and by virtue of the literal translation of theotokos (God bearer) gnosticism.

 

[bilop]

If you want to be technical about it, and this is coming from Nestorius who taught a heresy, that Jesus is the man, and The Word is God. What Nestorius taught is that they are separate, rather than being one and the same person. So in a sense you can indeed say that Jesus is created, in the sense that you are referring to The Son of Man. The Word, who is the Son of God, is Eternal.

Yes, but that is a heresy, as you say.

Catholic and Orthodox teaching has always been that Christ is one person, with two natures (divine and human).

If Christ were two persons, then the Trinity would have 4 persons, not 3.

God Bless

 

[PaulinePresbytr]

So how do you reconcile that with what the Angel said to her?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Born of her?
You state she was “bearing him”
Are you implying that God circumvented nature and plopped into Mary’s womb because that is possibly a new twist to how God manifested his salvific process.

The term mother implies that she bore God at his beginning (which he of course doesn’t have. It implies older than. The flesh itself of Jesus was younger than Mary of course, but the essence was not, as Christs essence is the eternal Word of God.

 

[bilop]

It means to denounce anti - trinitarianism, and by virtue of the literal translation of theotokos (God bearer) gnosticism.

I pretty sure they meant exactly what they said. If you disbelieve that Mary is Mother of God, you are anathema.

God Bless

 

[ConstantineTG]

Yes, but that is a heresy, as you say.

Catholic and Orthodox teaching has always been that Christ is one person, with two natures (divine and human).

If Christ were two persons, then the Trinity would have 4 persons, not 3.

God Bless

What is heresy is to separate Jesus the Man from God the Word. It is quite accurate to say Jesus was created, God is not eternally incarnate.

No, if Christ were two persons that doesn’t make the Trinity into 4 because Jesus the man then is considered not to be God in that scenario.

 

[PaulinePresbytr]

Well then as Christ interacted with men therefore was a “man” and since you “calvinist” tenet that all humans are depraved. Christ was depraved and a sinner!

You better rethink your theology methinks

Christ was God, and therefore not depraved.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The term mother implies that she bore God at his beginning (which he of course doesn’t have. It implies older than. The flesh itself of Jesus was younger than Mary of course, but the essence was not, as Christs essence is the eternal Word of God.

No, the term mother means that in her womb is Christ fully man and fully God. Mary is the mother of the flesh of Christ. But since you cannot separate the humanity and the divinity of Jesus Christ, then rightfully Mary is the Mother of God.

Also, Mother of God is not an accurate translation of Theotokos. Theotokos literally means “one who bore God” or “God-bearer”.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Christ was God, and therefore not depraved.

Christ is also man.

 

[PaulinePresbytr]

If you want to be technical about it, and this is coming from Nestorius who taught a heresy, that Jesus is the man, and The Word is God. What Nestorius taught is that they are separate, rather than being one and the same person. So in a sense you can indeed say that Jesus is created, in the sense that you are referring to The Son of Man. The Word, who is the Son of God, is Eternal.

Christ the man is not separate from Christ God, but he is separate from the flesh which Christ the man was manifest in.

 

[PaulinePresbytr]

Christ is also man.

He was not a depraved man, as his soul was the soul of God. Your and my souls are not.

 

[bilop]

What is heresy is to separate Jesus the Man from God the Word. It is quite accurate to say Jesus was created, God is not eternally incarnate.

No, if Christ were two persons that doesn’t make the Trinity into 4 because Jesus the man then is considered not to be God in that scenario.

The Nicene Creed clearly states Jesus is “begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father”.

“Not made” means he is not created. He was begotten of the Father before the beginning of time, and later became incarnate in the womb of the Virgin Mary.

The council of Ephesus denounced Nestorianism as heresy, deposed him as patriarch, and defined that Mary is the Mother of God.

God Bless

 

[PaulinePresbytr]

What is heresy is to separate Jesus the Man from God the Word. It is quite accurate to say Jesus was created, God is not eternally incarnate.

No, if Christ were two persons that doesn’t make the Trinity into 4 because Jesus the man then is considered not to be God in that scenario.

The flesh was created, the Messiah was not.

 

[PaulinePresbytr]

The Nicene Creed clearly states Jesus is “begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father”.

“Not made” means he is not created. He was begotten of the Father before the beginning of time, and later became incarnate in the womb of the Virgin Mary.

The council of Ephesus denounced Nestorianism as heresy, deposed him as patriarch, and defined that Mary is the Mother of God.

God Bless

It defined her as God bearer, as she bore him, and to deny such would be to deny the incarnation ie gnosticism