Was John Chrysostom Catholic?

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Mgoforth,

Actually protestants have never said that faith is simply a mental excercise. Maybe modern day apostate easy believism which neither strictly adheres the original confessions of faith nor the scriptures.

And no it’s not just in chapter 1. Read 3,4,5,6,9,10 on all the justification passages. He defines faith as not a work, but the conviction that God can do the impossible. Chrysostom teaches that justification comes out of the one time sacrifice of Jesus by faith apart from works, since the law keeps us deep in sin.

Faith is the beginning of a relationship between god and man. Its something that very few have, according to Jesus a gentile centurion had more than any Jew at one point.
With all due respect to you personally, no version of Protestantism “strictly adheres to the original confessions of faith nor the scriptures”. They’re all heresies…just that some have gone farther down that road than others.

Justification does come from the one time sacrifice of Jesus. The Catholic faith teaches that we will always fall short of the glory of God, even if only in small ways. So you (and St Paul) are correct that adherence to the Law by itself is not the answer. But “faith without works is dead”. So if you’re telling me that our faith, with a complete absence of any good works will save us…then how is that not a mental exercise?

Edit: The only way I could see that having faith while doing absolutely no good works would save us is if you “got the faith” 😉 then died immediately, before you had time to do anything good. Otherwise, faith is weakened with each sin we commit, and to avoid doing good works is a sin. So unless we’re constantly striving to do good works, our faith will pretty quickly die (we’ll commit a mortal sin) and then we are no longer justified. As I said, it seems that Sola Fide and Once Saved Always Saved are mutually dependent heresies.
 
Faith begins the relatnship with God but hexadecimal he is holy, repentance is intrinsic to faith
 
“Precisely the supreme sacrifice of love on the Cross, which the Son of God accepted and chose willingly, becomes the source of our justification, of our salvation.”

–Pope Benedict XVI

This is what he also wrote in his Letter to the Galatians: “[M]an is not justified by works of the law but only through faith in Jesus Christ; even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified” (2: 16).

“Being justified” means being made righteous, that is, being accepted by God’s merciful justice to enter into communion with him and, consequently, to be able to establish a far more genuine relationship with all our brethren: and this takes place on the basis of the complete forgiveness of our sins.

Well, Paul states with absolute clarity that this condition of life does not depend on our possible good works but on the pure grace of God: “[We] are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Rom 3: 24). With these words St Paul expressed the fundamental content of his conversion, the new direction his life took as a result of his encounter with the Risen Christ…"

–Pope Benedict XVI

Keep reading:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html
 
“Precisely the supreme sacrifice of love on the Cross, which the Son of God accepted and chose willingly, becomes the source of our justification, of our salvation.”

–Pope Benedict XVI

This is what he also wrote in his Letter to the Galatians: “[M]an is not justified by works of the law but only through faith in Jesus Christ; even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified” (2: 16).

“Being justified” means being made righteous, that is, being accepted by God’s merciful justice to enter into communion with him and, consequently, to be able to establish a far more genuine relationship with all our brethren: and this takes place on the basis of the complete forgiveness of our sins.

Well, Paul states with absolute clarity that this condition of life does not depend on our possible good works but on the pure grace of God: “[We] are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Rom 3: 24). …"

–Pope Benedict XVI

To Keep reading:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html
 
M. He defines faith as not a work, but the conviction that God can do the impossible.
But that ignores, the fact that Faith IS a work in and of itself. It is something that, enabled by Grace, we ourselves do. God does not believe in Himself for us, He does not carry on a one-sided relationship. We perform the act of Fatih, and perform the act of relationship with God and we are enabled to do so via Grace. But it is still something we DO.
Chrysostom teaches that justification comes out of the one time sacrifice of Jesus by faith apart from works, since the law keeps us deep in sin.
+Chrysostom, like the Church, does not hold that justification is by works apart from Faith, but that the acceptance of the Grace of Salvation requires that the call to Faith and Works are acted upon.
 
I promise you guys if you read his homilys on Romans and Galatians you will notice that be believed that man was justified by faith only and not by works of righteousness whihlch we do.
I think what Lancer said at the beginning of post #14 may be applicable. Catholics indeed believe in a grace alone salvation if you get right down to it. But as to Chrysostom, I found this as an example of what I presume you read, thinking this is “Protestant” thinking:
*But what is the law of faith? It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God’s power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only. And in saying this he attempts to bring the Jew who has believed to act with moderation, and to calm him that has not believed, in such way as to draw him on to his own view. For he that has been saved, if he be high-minded in that he abides by the Law, will be told that he himself has stopped his own mouth, himself has accused himself, himself has renounced claims to his own salvation, and has excluded boasting. But he that has not believed again, being humbled by these same means, will be capable of being brought over to the faith. Do you see how great faith’s preëminence is? How it has removed us from the former things, not even allowing us to boast of them? (Homily 7 on Romans)*To read Chrysostom here as being “Protestant” is to read him the same way many Protestants misunderstand Romans. In this context, Chrysostom is referring to “works” as in those “former things,” i.e. the Law of the OT. You see how Chrysostom at the beginning of this quote is trying to keep humble the believing Jew to not get arrogant about abiding in the “Law” because it is the faith of the NT that saves. It is not faith vs. works of love here, it is faith vs. works of the OT here. That is in harmony with Catholicism.
 
I will give the citations later for I am at work. But if you’d his homily on Romans 1,3,4,5,10 you will see he believed that Paul taught we are justified by faith with no works contributing. Now whether this is referring to initial or just the permanent state of justification I still have not determined, but the later is more corroborative.
Corroborative (adj): confirmed or supported

Is the supposition that faith without works as being the source of justification corroborated in Scripture?

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 7:21[/BIBLEDRB]

It would seem not. Jesus demands that His followers do the work which He sent them to do if they want to enter His kingdom.

However, the one who works should neither rest on his laurels:

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 7:22[/BIBLEDRB]

These are people who claimed to do His works, yet Jesus calls them evildoers and tells them He never knew them.

Therefore the grace of faith and the grace of works are complementary graces that together are efficacious in our justification.
 
“What shall we then say that Abraham, our father as pertaining to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he has whereof to glory; but not before God.”

He had said (5 manuscripts επεν), that the world had become guilty before God, and that all had sinned, and that boasting was excluded and that it was impossible to be saved otherwise than by faith. He is now intent upon showing that this salvation, so far from being matter of shame, was even the cause of a bright glory, and a greater than that through works. For since the being saved, yet with shame, had somewhat of dejection in it, he next takes away this suspicion too. And indeed he has hinted at the same already, by calling it not barely salvation, but “righteousness. Therein” (he says) “is the righteousness of God revealed.” Romans 1:17 For he that is saved as a righteous man has a confidence accompanying his salvation. And he calls it not “righteousness” only, but also the setting forth of the righteousness of God. But God is set forth in things which are glorious and shining, and great. However, he nevertheless draws support for this from what he is at present upon, and carries his discourse forward by the method of question. And this he is always in the habit of doing both for clearness sake, and for the sake of confidence in what is said. Above, for instance, he did it, where he says, “What advantage then has the Jew?” Romans 3:1 and, “What then have we more than they?” Romans 3:9 and again, “where then is boasting? It is excluded” Romans 3:27: and here, “what then shall we say that Abraham our father?” etc. Now since the Jews kept turning over and over the fact, that the Patriarch, and friend of God, was the first to receive circumcision, he wishes to show, that it was by faith that he too was justified. And this was quite a vantage ground to insist upon (περιουσα νκης πολλς). For for a person who had no works, to be justified by faith, was nothing unlikely. But for a person richly adorned with good deeds, not to be made just from hence, but from faith, this is the thing to cause wonder, and to set the power of faith in a strong light. And this is why he passes by all the others, and leads his discourse back to this man. And he calls him “father, as pertaining to the flesh,” to throw them out of the genuine relationship (συγγενεας γνησας) to him, and to pave the Gentiles’ way to kinsmanship with him. And then he says, “For if Abraham were justified by works, he has whereof to glory: but not before God.” After saying that God “justified the circumcision by faith and the uncircumcision through faith,” and making the same sufficiently sure in what he said before, he now proves it by Abraham more clearly than he promised, and pitches the battle for faith against works, and makes this righteous man the subject of the whole struggle; and that not without special meaning. Wherefore also he sets him up very high by calling him “forefather,” and putting a constraint upon them to comply with him in all points. For, Tell me not, he would say, about the Jews, nor bring this man or that before me. For I will go up to the very head of all, and the source whence circumcision took its rise. For “if Abraham,” he says, “was justified by works, he has whereof to glory: but not before God.” What is here said is not plain, and so one must make it plainer. For there are two “gloryings,” one of works, and one of faith. After saying then, “if he was justified by works, he has whereof to glory; but not before God;” he points out that he might have whereof to glory from faith also, yea and much greater reason for it. For the great power of Paul is especially displayed in this, that he turns what is objected to the other side, and shows that what seemed rather to be on the side of salvation by works, viz. glorying or boldness of claim (παρρησιζεσθαι) belonged much more truly to that by faith. For he that glories in his works has his own labors to put forward: but he that finds his honor in having faith in God, has a much greater ground for glorying to show, in that it is God that he glorifies and magnifies. For those things which the nature of the visible world tells him not of, in receiving these by faith in Him, he at once displays sincere love towards Him, and heralds His power clearly forth. Now this is the character of the noblest soul, and the philosophic spirit, and lofty mind. For to abstain from stealing and murdering is trifling sort of acquirement, but to believe that it is possible for God to do things impossible requires a soul of no mean stature, and earnestly affected towards Him; for this is a sign of sincere love. For he indeed honors God, who fulfils the commandments, but he does so in a much greater degree who thus follows wisdom (φιλοσοφν) by his faith. The former obeys Him, but the latter receives that opinion of Him which is fitting, and glorifies Him, and feels wonder at Him more than that evinced by works. For that glorying pertains to him that does aright, but this glorifies God, and lies wholly in Him. For he glories at conceiving great things concerning Him, which redound to His glory. And this is why he speaks of having whereof to glory before God. And not for this only, but also for another reason: for he who is a believer glories again, not only because he loves God in sincerity, but also because he has enjoyed great honor and love from him. For as he shows his love to Him by having great thoughts about Him, (for this is a proof of love), so does God also love him, though deserving to suffer for countless sins, not in freeing him from punishment only, but even by making him righteous. He then has whereof to glory, as having been counted worthy of mighty love.
 
He aligns faith and love closely, but makes a distinction between believing and fulfilling the commandments
 
Corroborative (adj): confirmed or supported

Is the supposition that faith without works as being the source of justification corroborated in Scripture?

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 7:21[/BIBLEDRB]

It would seem not. Jesus demands that His followers do the work which He sent them to do if they want to enter His kingdom.

However, the one who works should neither rest on his laurels:

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 7:22[/BIBLEDRB]

These are people who claimed to do His works, yet Jesus calls them evildoers and tells them He never knew them.

Therefore the grace of faith and the grace of works are complementary graces that together are efficacious in our justification.
Yes I believe this. But upon on conversion and throughout the Christian life, we are justified by faith. The necessarily graces of faith are the works that come with it. These will be used to identify Christs disciples in the end
 
But that ignores, the fact that Faith IS a work in and of itself. It is something that, enabled by Grace, we ourselves do. God does not believe in Himself for us, He does not carry on a one-sided relationship. We perform the act of Fatih, and perform the act of relationship with God and we are enabled to do so via Grace. But it is still something we DO. .
Seeking to call faith a “work in and of itself” is not helpful and is not the approach to take…the argument there is not the road to seek to go down.

“Well, Paul states with absolute clarity that this condition of life does not depend on our possible good works but on the pure grace of God: “[We] are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Rom 3: 24). …”

–Pope Benedict XVI

I refer you to Pope Benedict XVI (see links above) for a masterful set of audiences etc on the subject.
 
Can a it happen that a person is “justifed” and die soon after and thus never go on to do a single “good work” and go to heaven?

Yes most certainly.

Or is there some X number of good works one must do?

No.
 
But Paul and john Chrysostom teach no mixture of faith and works for the righteousness of God. Catholics believe that righteousness of God is a progressive transformation over a life long process. Paul teaches the people have obtained '‘righgeousnsss’ in their faith that gifts then with justification, now and here apart from works because of what christ did on the cross
To fortify what I said in previous post, here’s an example from Galatians and St. John Chrysostom:*What is the meaning of working through love? Here he gives them a hard blow, by showing that this error had crept in because the love of Christ had not been rooted within them. For to believe is not all that is required, but also to abide in love. It is as if he had said, Had you loved Christ as you ought, you would not have deserted to bondage, nor abandoned Him who redeemed you, nor treated with contumely Him who gave you freedom. (St. John Chrysostom, Commentary on Galatians 5:6)*Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

That verse embodies what we are talking about here. Circumcision is an example of that OT Law - it doesn’t avail. Not that kind of work. Works of love, yes - those are integral to the concept of “faith” in Chrysostom’s (and Paul’s) theology.
 
I promise you guys if you read his homilys on Romans and Galatians you will notice that be believed that man was justified by faith only and not by works of righteousness whihlch we do.
He puts together the forgiveness of sin and justification, showing that the clearing of our immoral stance before God is what is in mind
Why do you insist that these are two separate things? Why do you make it either or? Isn’t it the same coin?

Peace,
Mark
 
Now could a person “exit” a state of justification via the doing of “evil works” – yes most certainly.

Furthermore could there be some “good work” that is omitted by a particular person that could also cause this “exit”? Yes such would be the case of a “grave sin of omission”.

Like turning ones back on some dying man in front of your house…(with full knowledge and deliberate consent).

By such one would “exit” a state of justification. One would need the grace of God to restore one…to justification (through the blood of Jesus Christ!).
 
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