Was Judas Iscariot a Bishop?

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PeriliousKnight

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I guess this is one of those alternate history questions.

Let’s assume everything up to the crucifixion takes place as it does in real life. However, instead of hanging himself, Judas simply runs away. Since he is technically an apostle, would he be a valid Bishop and would bishops created by him be valid?
 
PeriliousKnight said:
I guess this is one of those alternate history questions.

Let’s assume everything up to the crucifixion takes place as it does in real life. However, instead of hanging himself, Judas simply runs away. Since he is technically an apostle, would he be a valid Bishop and would bishops created by him be valid?
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Then the prophecies on Judas would be wrong, so God would have been mistaken?
 
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Yes. He was an apostle, one of the Twelve. Under Jesus’ authority, he healed the sick and cast out demons. I suppose his appointment of bishops might be illicit, but I see no reason to suppose it would be invalid.
 
He would have been an apostle not just technically but in fact. If he had not despaired and killed himself, he could have received God’s mercy and forgiveness, and could have been a part of the Church.
 
Godfollower said:
Under Jesus’ authority, he healed the sick and cast out demons
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I need scriptural evidence that he did such things. Even though, he could, after the Last Supper, when Christ presented the Church and the New Law. But he chose to do other things.
 
Jesus himself, after the resurrection, would have forgiven Judas just as he forgave Peter and Thomas.
 
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Mary888 said:
I need scriptural evidence that he did such things. Even though, he could, after the Last Supper, when Christ presented the Church and the New Law. But he chose to do other things.
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Read Mark chapter 6. Jesus sent the Twelve (including Judas) on a mission in His name. They healed the sick and cast out demons in Jesus’ name.

Judas was an actual Apostle. This, he had authority to do whatever they did.
 
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Godfollower said:
They healed the sick and cast out demons in Jesus’ name.
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Need proof that he himself did it, not just the group. When a group is measured, one member slacking is hidden in the result if the majority gets a winning score.
 
Scripture has it that Jesus gave those powers to the twelve. In those passages, Judas is named among the twelve.

None of the twelve healed the sick or cast out demons by their own power or by their own merit. Just as a priest who is not in a state of grace may perform the sacraments with full efficacy, the apostles, imperfect as they were, had their miraculous powers through Jesus.
 
Beryllos said:
Scripture has it that Jesus gave those powers to the twelve. In those passages, Judas is named among the twelve.
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I still need a quote when he himself actually did what he could do with Christ’s authority. Because Judas also received the Eucharist and then he berayed Christ. In this instance the redempting role of the Eucharist is challenged. You may receive it and still betray Christ.
 
It’s right there in the text. They went out in pairs and healed the sick. There’s nothing in there about Jesus grading a group project on a curve; the Twelve were sent, and the Twelve did what Jesus told them to do. Peter even acknowledged Judas, saying “He was one of our number and shared in our ministry.” And Matthias was chosen to take over Judas’ ministry. There’s nothing to support your theory that Judas was assigned a ministry but faked his way through it; Matthias took over a ministry, not a sham.
 
Godfollower said:
Matthias took over a ministry, not a sham.
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Matthias did not replace a traitor. He could have become a bishop from any of the other 11 Apostles, like Titus did. Matthias never got Apostles’ succesion from Judas because Judas was dead when Matthias stepped in.
 
PeriliousKnight said:
I guess this is one of those alternate history questions.

Let’s assume everything up to the crucifixion takes place as it does in real life. However, instead of hanging himself, Judas simply runs away. Since he is technically an apostle, would he be a valid Bishop and would bishops created by him be valid?
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Apostolic succession of the bishops originated in the apostles, so yes, Judas would have been able to validly make somebody a bishop if he did not take his own life.

The priesthood is not based on whether somebody is virtuous or not virtuous. Like all of the sacraments, it is a gift.
 
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Mary888 said:
Matthias did not replace a traitor. He could have become a bishop from any of the other 11 Apostles, like Titus did. Matthias never got Apostles’ succesion from Judas because Judas was dead when Matthias stepped in.
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You need to read Acts. That’s exactly what he did. Matthias took over Judas’ ministry. “And his bishopric let another take.“ Judas’ office as Apostle was vacant; Matthias filled it.
 
Would Judas ever have gained forgiveness? I mean he betrayed Jesus leading to jesus being arrested and crucified and then he committed a mortal sin through committing suicide.

I’m just curious, Im still learning.
 
Godfollower said:
Judas’ office as Apostle was vacant;
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Judas’ office was vacant because of Judas’s death, or his treason and thus default Excommunication, or his unworthy of performing his tasks as bishop (such as exercising his chatisma for good)? We need clarifications in order to draw a conclusion. Possible the Saint Apostles left it vague so it may be an ever hovering axe for bishops to follow them, should they think their office might excuse them in the day of their Judgement.
 
I’m going to say no since he didn’t hang around for Pentecost.
 
No, no, no. Jesus sending the disciples out during his ministry was not as bishops. The apostles became bishops when Jesus breathed in them after the resurrection and told them to receive the Holy Spirit and gave them the power to forgive sins. Judas would have already been gone.

So he was never “technically” a Bishop.
 
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