Was mary assumed body and soul has she been resurrected

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Memaw said:
Dormation or “falling asleep” Does not necessarily mean death. Enoch was taken to Heaven without dying, would Our Lady receive anything less??? God Bless, Memaw
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Would Our Lady receive anything less than Her Divine Son? Why would She not share in His glory by dying with Him and rising with Him? There could be no greater honour, no greater glory. She is the perfect prototype of the Church, and the Church itself (all of us) must die in Christ before we rise in Christ.
 
Not only did Pope Pius XII clearly believe in the Dormition when he defined the dogma of the Assumption, it is clearly part of our Latin tradition. You can see it depicted in the iconography of St. Mary’s Major in Rome…our most important Marian church.
 
twf said:
Would Our Lady receive anything less than Her Divine Son? Why would She not share in His glory by dying with Him and rising with Him? There could be no greater honour, no greater glory. She is the perfect prototype of the Church, and the Church itself (all of us) must die in Christ before we rise in Christ.
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I will ask God when I get there!! Your right, She is the perfect prototype of the Church. We will die but the Church will not. God Bless, Memaw
 
twf said:
Not only did Pope Pius XII clearly believe in the Dormition when he defined the dogma of the Assumption, it is clearly part of our Latin tradition. You can see it depicted in the iconography of St. Mary’s Major in Rome…our most important Marian church.
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Definition of Dormation of the B.V.M. in my Catholic Encyclopedia says,

" Dormation refers to the falling into sleep, rather than death, of the Blessed Mother. Also, this term is sometimes applied to the Assumption."
God Bless, Memaw
 
Regardless, it is assured that at present the Virgin Mary is the Queen of Heaven and present there bodily and spiritually.
 
Quote:
As to the cause of Mary’s death, the opinions that wish to exclude her from death by natural causes seem groundless. It is more important to look for the Blessed Virgin’s spiritual attitude at the moment of her departure from this world. In this regard, St Francis de Sales maintains that Mary’s death was due to a transport of love. He speaks of a dying “in love, from love and through love”, going so far as to say that the Mother of God died of love for her Son Jesus (Treatise on the Love of God, bk. 7, ch. XIII-XIV). Whatever from the physical point of view was the organic, biological cause of the end of her bodily life, it can be said that for Mary the passage from this life to the next was the full development of grace in glory, so that no death can ever be so fittingly described as a “dormition” as hers."

Seems to me he is saying that Her Assumption, however it occurred, was not the same as our earthly death,
“For Mary the passage from this life to the next was the full development of grace in glory so that NO death can ever be so fittingly described as a “dormition” as hers.”
 
Roseanne still died an earthly death just like we all will, no matter what the wording. God Bless, Memaw
 
No I have not but I also noticed he said “seem” groundless. God Bless, Memaw
 
I was taught in Catholic school that she was assumed into Heaven body and soul … I was not taught that she died first.
 
Seems like we are all grasping a little. I’m willing to wait and ask God to fill in the details. Like I said before, I love God’s mysteries. Why do you suppose HE never gave us a detailed description of the last moment of Mary’s time on earth??? Maybe that moment was just to precious? Between Her and Her Heavenly Father. I’m willing to settle for that. God Bless, Memaw
 
I do think we have drug this out far enough but I do remind myself that the central dogma of the Church does not say Mary died!! God Bless, Memaw
 
Why does it matter whether she died or not? Is there something wrong with dying? What exactly is at stake here?
 
Well, this is interesting.

I wasn’t taught anything one way or the other concerning this issue. Perhaps I can share a few thoughts?

I think it was one of the Cappadocians who discussed Genesis where it says ‘dying ye shall die’ - his thought was that the original plan was for man, eventually, to return to the dust and rise again, but it would be a death without fear or corruption, lest the world be overpopulated. It would not be a death to the death, that is a death to corruption, but a death to life, to a resurrection. It would not have been a death because of sin, but a death because of the promise of new, eternal life. I’m sorry I can’t place the quote.

We don’t know exactly what happened, for sure, it seems, although different things have been taught from before anyone who is alive today remembers.

But IF Mary died, it would have been as the new Eve, no? As a model of Christian death, a death unto life, not a death unto death? A death without sin and without corruption, and a pure and holy resurrection? IF Mary was sinless, THEN she would not have suffered a death of sin, as death is the consequence of sin, but a death of redemption, in which the marks of the world are swept away that happen to a person even living sinlessly in the world.
 
Tomyris said:
Well, this is interesting.

I wasn’t taught anything one way or the other concerning this issue. Perhaps I can share a few thoughts?

I think it was one of the Cappadocians who discussed Genesis where it says ‘dying ye shall die’ - his thought was that the original plan was for man, eventually, to return to the dust and rise again, but it would be a death without fear or corruption, lest the world be overpopulated. It would not be a death to the death, that is a death to corruption, but a death to life, to a resurrection. It would not have been a death because of sin, but a death because of the promise of new, eternal life. I’m sorry I can’t place the quote.

We don’t know exactly what happened, for sure, it seems, although different things have been taught from before anyone who is alive today remembers.

But IF Mary died, it would have been as the new Eve, no? As a model of Christian death, a death unto life, not a death unto death? A death without sin and without corruption, and a pure and holy resurrection? IF Mary was sinless, THEN she would not have suffered a death of sin, as death is the consequence of sin, but a death of redemption, in which the marks of the world are swept away that happen to a person even living sinlessly in the world.
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Death is a punishment for sin, that is why Our Lord had to die to redeem us. He took on our sins. If Adam and Eve had not sinned they would not have died. but at God’s call, they would have gone to Heaven body and soul. No death, no dust. No overcrowed earth.Their sin brought death to us. God told them if they eat from that tree, they would surely die, they did and we do too. God Bless, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
I am NOT placing my own wisdom above the “collective” wisdom of the Church. I have stated that the Church does NOT teach that Mary died, even if many think so. The Church does NOT know for sure if or when. Our Lord became one of us to TAKE ON suffering and death for OUR sins, That is entirely different and that was not Mary’s job. Your saying, “even if” and “could have” which shows your not sure!!! I love God’s Great Mysteries, Gives us something wonderful to look forward to in Heaven. God Bless, Memaw
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Yes, that is precisely what you are doing. You are reasoning from the fact that Mary had no original sin to the conclusion that she did not die. That is *your *logic, not the mind of the Church as expressed in the writings of the Fathers and in Magisterial documents. Again, there are degrees of certainty. Something not being dogma is *not *the same as being up for grabs. See the teaching of Vatican II (LG 25) on four levels of the Church’s teaching, of which dogma is only one level.
 
Memaw said:
Death is a punishment for sin, that is why Our Lord had to die to redeem us. He took on our sins. If Adam and Eve had not sinned they would not have died. but at God’s call, they would have gone to Heaven body and soul. No death, no dust. No overcrowed earth.Their sin brought death to us. God told them if they eat from that tree, they would surely die, they did and we do too. God Bless, Memaw
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You make a number of statements here I would like to challenge you on.

Where do you get this statement from?

God barred them from the tree of life in the garden (Gen 3:23) lest they live forever. It does not explain why He did not want them then to live forever - was it because of sin, or was there a role for death in the lives of those who never sinned? We see sin killing us and bringing death in passages such as Romans 7:11, but perhaps there is another type of death, one not the result of sin but one in which man finally is divinized, in which theosis is complete, something that cannot be completed on earth with our present physical nature, and that was intended from the start?

Athanasius in On the Incarnation hints at this, possibly, in a complex argument that may support your position more than mine. But Athanasius speaks of earthly bliss followed by incorruption in heaven. I don’t have time now to find explore this further. And if this is what I was thinking of, well, he was not a Cappadocian.
 
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