Was Mary full of grace or highly favored?

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brb3 said:
I’m not convinced Mary is # 1 Saint … although I’m open to being convinced of.

I’m not certain she currently sits at Rt. Hand of Christ … although she may.

IMO … all the top Saints, are on same level as Mary. Able to intercede for us, able to assist the Church Militant on Earth. Although … maybe Mary is on a level above all the rest of the Church’s Sainthood.

I feel scripture supports Peter as Numero Uno … of the saints, and be at Christ’s Rt. hand.

IMO … these are probably items we can’t really be sure about. Are they crucial to our salvation … :dts:
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What do your feelings have to do with anything? When mom and dad disciplined you, you felt that they were being unjust. Were they?

Christ said that we must keep His commands (not only the written ones), and to the Apostles He said “He who hears you hears me.” Thus, if obedience to the Church that Christ founded is crucial to our salvation, then yes, believing what the Church teaches is crucial to our salvation. The Church can bind your sins to you like a millstone, or can loose those bonds. Your choice. It is a matter of the human will.

Not even sure that Mary is a Saint? :eek: You must be kidding! You have the bible which tells you that the Queen’s seat is beside David’s throne and that Jesus sits on David’s throne. Hint: Peter is not the queen. He is a manly man, if you know what I mean.

I detect some possible misogyny here. Tell me it ain’t true!
 
po18guy said:
Not even sure that Mary is a Saint? :eek: You must be kidding! You have the bible which tells you that the Queen’s seat is beside David’s throne and that Jesus sits on David’s throne. Hint: Peter is not the queen. He is a manly man, if you know what I mean.
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Where did I say that … I said Mary and all the rest are the Top Echelon of Saints. But, that I wasn’t sure Mary was in Numero Uno spot. I believe Peter got it. But, can we be sure … since even Jesus said it was the Father’s call to make.

Now, will humans be male & female in heaven ? Or like the angels … w/o apparent female figures or names ? All the angels we know of had male names. We know we are not given in marriage in heaven … that much is in scripture and for sure.

I think you protest much … w/o enuf to go on. To say only Mary qualifies for the number 1 spot is taking things to the extremis.
 
brb3 said:
Where did I say that … I said Mary and all the rest are the Top Echelon of Saints. But, that I wasn’t sure Mary was in Numero Uno spot. I believe Peter got it. But, can we be sure … since even Jesus said it was the Father’s call to make.

Now, will humans be male & female in heaven ? Or like the angels … w/o apparent female figures or names ? All the angels we know of had male names. We know we are not given in marriage in heaven … that much is in scripture and for sure.

I think you protest much … w/o enuf to go on. To say only Mary qualifies for the number 1 spot is taking things to the extremis.
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Sorry about that! I misunderstood the first line of your post. You really need to read the catechism on Mary. Yes, she was the last hurdle that I had to get over. But, once over that hurdle, the Church is simply amazing.
 
po18guy said:
You really need to read the catechism on Mary. Yes, she was the last hurdle that I had to get over. But, once over that hurdle, the Church is simply amazing.
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So, you began journey with Protestant understandings ?
What did you discover in the Catechism on Mary that helped you solve the Marian puzzle ?
For me, Mary isn’t the amazing beauty in Catholicism … its the 7 Sacraments, esp. the Eucharist. If Mary is the key to unlocking the CC … I don’t see it yet.
 
brb3 said:
So, you began journey with Protestant understandings ?
What did you discover in the Catechism on Mary that helped you solve the Marian puzzle ?
For me, Mary isn’t the amazing beauty in Catholicism … its the 7 Sacraments, esp. the Eucharist. If Mary is the key to unlocking the CC … I don’t see it yet.
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Please do not misunderstand. I am in the Church for Jesus Christ. He is the Source and Summit if our faith. Mary is the beautiful soul who brought Him to flesh and who always and everywhere leads us to Him. Catholicism is not an “either-or” faith, as many polemicists try to force upon us these days. It is not the Kindergarten grade bible-alone theology of “Jesus and ME” (and nothing else). In Catholicism, you get “both-and” - more of everything, and it is all beautiful. It is synergistic.

I lost all objection to Marian doctrine via an illumination of the Holy Spirit at a Catholic bible study. And, I had been Catholic for some time. I knew that the Church taught truth - I was just not 100% comfortable with the truth. Now I am. Thank you, Holy Spirit!
 
2co105 said:
"491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Saviour of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin."

As I understand it, St. Jerome was translating from the greek and “Full of Grace” is ‘plaras karitos’ which only occurs 2 times in the New Testament greek. John 1:14 referring to Jesus and Acts 6:8 referring to Stephen. The greek of Luke 1:28 has the word, ‘charitoō’, which according to Strong’s means:
  1. to make graceful
    a) charming, lovely, agreeable
  2. to peruse with grace, compass with favour
  3. to honour with blessings
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I’ll answer with a question 🙂

Is it possible to be highly favored by God without being full of grace?
 
Full of Grace has more grace than highly favored.

Highly favored does not equal 100% full of grace in the past AND 100% Full of Grace now AND 100% full of grace in the future.

Full of grace DOES equal that!

That’s why the lie of the highly favored translation was started by the devil.

Mary being that perfect and only being a creature is something the devil can’t stand.

It’s also something that some Protestants can’t stand.

Why does it hurt them that God is able to create Mary sinless and keep her sinless? Are they happier if the universe were to be created where the devil ALWAYS gets EVERY man to fall and is stronger than God?

The devil when in heaven as an angel envied the greatness of God and wanted to be God himself and bring God down to his level.

Do some Protestants envy Mary’s perfection and want to bring her down to their level?

Mary being perfect IN NO WAY puts her on God’s level. Eve was created perfect just like Mary. The good angels that were created and didn’t fall were created perfect and are still perfect.

That in no way DETRACTS from Christ–it glorifies Him.

How does having no created human person(Jesus is a Divine person)–be perfect like the angels are perfect–how does that glorify the power of God?

If no created human person is perfect does that not indeed exalt the power of the devil and make it greater than God’s power?

WANTING Mary not to be perfect is wanting the devil to be stronger than God.

Why would anyone(some Protestants included) want what the devil wants?
 
Full of Grace has more grace than highly favored.

Highly favored does not equal 100% full of grace in the past AND 100% Full of Grace now AND 100% full of grace in the future.

Full of grace DOES equal that!

That’s why the lie of the highly favored translation was started by the devil.

Mary being that perfect and only being a creature is something the devil can’t stand.

It’s also something that Protestants can’t stand.

Why does it hurt them that God is able to create Mary sinless and keep her sinless? Are they happier if the universe were to be created where the devil ALWAYS gets EVERY man to fall and is stronger than God?

The devil when in heaven as an angel envied the greatness of God and wanted to be God himself and bring God down to his level.

Do Protestants envy Mary’s perfection and want to bring her down to their level?

Mary being perfect IN NO WAY puts her on God’s level. Eve was created perfect just like Mary. The good angels that were created and didn’t fall were created perfect and are still perfect.

That in no way DETRACTS from Christ–it glorifies Him.

How does having no created human person(Jesus is a Divine person)–be perfect like the angels are perfect–how does that glorify the power of God?

If no created human person is perfect does that not indeed exalt the power of the devil and make it greater than God’s power?

WANTING Mary not to be perfect is wanting the devil to be stronger than God.

Why would anyone(Protestants included) want what the devil wants?
 
Sorry for the duplicate–the first one should be the only one.
 
Bodyandblood999 said:
I am wondering about this: Do you think Roman Catholics are more focused on Mary or on Jesus Christ? I look at a lot of my Catholic friends and I honestly think that Mary is more popular than Jesus. I struggle with this. What you think about it? Be honest!
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Yes, I actually do believe some Roman Catholics are focused on Mary more so than Jesus, and it did bother me too when I thought I saw that.    But even if they were taking it to a level it should not be, they are not the ones we should be relying on to base our views about Catholicism, but what the Catholic Church says in its teachings/catechism.
Is the same thing as when someone might see a protestant evangeical bashing homosexuals (ad hominem arguments, etc.) on tv- doesn’t mean that evangelicals think that is right or promote it in their teachings.
 
I would like to question some of your statements.
Jerry-Jet said:
Full of Grace has more grace than highly favored.

Highly favored does not equal 100% full of grace in the past AND 100% Full of Grace now AND 100% full of grace in the future.

What does being full of grace mean to you? How would your theology apply in the case of Stephen and the man in Sirach 18:17?

Why does it hurt them that God is able to create Mary sinless and keep her sinless?
Do you base this belief solely on tradition? Is their some theological reason that Mary would be considered sinless?
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AnneElizabeth said:
Yes,** I actually do believe some Roman Catholics are focused on Mary more so than Jesus, **and it did bother me too when I thought I saw that. But even if they were taking it to a level it should not be, they are not the ones we should be relying on to base our views about Catholicism, but what the Catholic Church says in its teachings/catechism.

Is the same thing as when someone might see a protestant evangeical bashing homosexuals (ad hominem arguments, etc.) on tv- doesn’t mean that evangelicals think that is right or promote it in their teachings.
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Anne-

What are your beliefs that give you this thought?

And how many are “some”.

Pork
 
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