Was Mohammed a Sinner?

[Emad]

ok give me a min.

 

[Emad]

Sent, tell me if you got it.

 

[whatevergirl]

got it–thanks! i replied.

 

[Emad]

whatevergirl:

got it–thanks! i replied.

ok I am off now, if you reply I probably won’t see it until tomorrow. Good night.

*Admins feel free to delete the last couple posts of this thread. *

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Emad:

No He doesn’t instruct us, but it is allowed. He said one is best, but He allowed up to 4 and it has many conditions attached to it.

He “allows” us one. Why is one best, and not 4? What is ‘best’? Why can Muhammad dictate to his followers that HE is allowed 20, but his followers ‘just’ 4? I have enough trouble with my girlfriend. I guess in Islamic culture there it doesn’t matter as much, as women still aren’t allowed to go to school in most Muslim countries and their testimony in a court of law is worth less than a man’s. The Muslim countries need to start accepting universal suffrage.

 

[Emad]

Semper Fi:

He “allows” us one. Why is one best, and not 4? What is ‘best’? Why can Muhammad dictate to his followers that HE is allowed 20, but his followers ‘just’ 4? I have enough trouble with my girlfriend. I guess in Islamic culture there it doesn’t matter as much, as women still aren’t allowed to go to school in most Muslim countries and their testimony in a court of law is worth less than a man’s. The Muslim countries need to start accepting universal suffrage.

Most of your above post has nothing to do with the topic. I won’t reply to anything that is off topic. Allah allowed Muhammad peace be upon him 9 wives.

whyislam.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1525&PN=1 read the second post in that thread.

Also read this link:

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546160

 

[janG]

What exactly IS sin in Islam? I’m not talking about the “unforgiveable” sin or the sins that are violations of the ritual/dietary/alms/go to mecca rules. I’m asking about the moral laws. I’ve been searching for months for an answer to this question, and there seems to be no moral absolutes; no clear definitions of right and wrong, good and evil. I’ve never found a clear definition of how anyone is to know if they have committed a sin or not. It all seems to be that if you didn’t intend to commit a sin, then you didn’t sin. If it doesn’t bother your conscience, then you haven’t done anything wrong. What am I missing?

 

[Emad]

janG:

What exactly IS sin in Islam? I’m not talking about the “unforgiveable” sin or the sins that are violations of the ritual/dietary/alms/go to mecca rules. I’m asking about the moral laws. I’ve been searching for months for an answer to this question, and there seems to be no moral absolutes; no clear definitions of right and wrong, good and evil. I’ve never found a clear definition of how anyone is to know if they have committed a sin or not. It all seems to be that if you didn’t intend to commit a sin, then you didn’t sin. If it doesn’t bother your conscience, then you haven’t done anything wrong. What am I missing?

Hello Jan, I am sorry that you weren’t able to find an answer for your question. Where have you searched? I am suprised you made such a statement as sins are very clear in Islam. I will list some for you:

1. Associating anything with Allah
2. Murder
3. Practicing magic
4. Abandoning salah (ritual Prayer)
5. Not paying zakah
6. Not fasting during the month of Ramadan without excuse
7. Not performing Hajj, while being able to do so
8. Showing disrespect to parents
9. Severing relations with relatives
10. Committing adultery
11. Committing sodomy
12. Dealing in riba (interest)
13. Wrongfully consuming the property of an orphan
14. Lying about Allah or His Messenger
15. Running away from the battlefield
16. Deceiving the people that one rules and being unjust to them
17. Being proud and arrogant
18. Bearing false witness
19. Drinking alcohol
20. Gambling
21. Falsely accusing chaste women (i.e. of committing fornication or adultery)
22. Stealing from the spoils of war
23. Stealing
24. Committing robbery
25. Making false oath
26. Committing oppression
27. Earning ill-gotten gain.
28. Consuming what is unlawful.
29. Committing suicide
30. Lying frequently
31. Judging unjustly
32. Giving and accepting a bribe
33. Imitating the opposite sex (in dress, behavior, and the like)
34. Allowing one’s wife, daughters, etc. to display their beauty to men or conduct illicit sexual relations
35. Marrying a divorced woman in order to make her lawful for her ex-husband to remarry her after he irrevocably divorced her
36. Not protecting oneself or one’s clothes from being contaminated with urine or excrement.
37. Showing off
38. Learning knowledge of the religion for the sake of this world and withholding that knowledge (i.e., not teaching people)
39. Betraying a trust
40. Recounting favors
41. Denying Allah’s Decree
42. Listening to people’s private conversations
43. Carrying gossip
44. Swearing
45. Breaking contracts
46. Believing in fortune-tellers
47. Behaving badly towards one’s spouse
48. Making statues
49. Lamenting, wailing, tearing the clothing, and doing other things of this sort when an affliction falls
50. Treating others wrongfully
51. Treating one’s wife, servant, the weak, and animals badly
52. Offending one’s neighbor
53. Offending and abusing Muslims
54. Offending people and having an arrogant attitude toward them
55. Trailing one’s garment in pride
56. Wearing silk and gold (this is for men only)
57. Slaughtering an animal that has been dedicated to anyone other than Allah
58. To knowingly ascribe one’s paternity to a man other than one’s biological father
59. Arguing and disputing violently
60. Withholding excess water
61. Giving short weight or measure
62. Feeling secure from Allah’s Plan
63. Offending pious people
64. Not praying in congregation but praying alone without an excuse
65. Persistently missing Friday Prayer without any excuse
66. Usurping the rights of the heir through bequests (to others)
67. Deceiving and plotting evil
68. Spying for the enemy of the Muslims against Muslim’s interest
69. Cursing or insulting any of the Companions of the Prophet

Source: The Major Sins (Al-Kaba’ir) by Muhammad ibn `Uthman Adh-Dhahabi, rendered into English by Mohammad Moinuddin Siddiqui.

If one reads the Quran, he will find all of these listed in it in one place or another.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Mike_D30:

Did you read the post?

It has to do with the notion in Islam that prophets are sinless, I said Moses murdered a man and was a sinner, clearly. What do you mean slap me silly? Maybe I’m not getting it, but I don’t see how I warranted that reaction.

What exactly are you looking for in a reply to this thread then?

oopa, sorry, I was so concentrated on Mohammed, I lost the big picture aspect.

 

[JoeyWarren]

That is your belief, however your belief isn’t proof. Evidence is. Show me where he committed a sin according to Islam’s definition of sins

Does Islam have a more liberal definition of Sin. Actually, this should be a new thread.

 

[whatevergirl]

What does ‘running away from the battlefield’ mean?

I don’t think that our Lord wants us to be so decentralized like this…I wish we all could be in unity with loving God.

 

[whatevergirl]

and is adultery if you cheat on your spouse (if you’ve married 4 women, let’s say) with a fifth? LOL

I respect others’ religions, but Islam sounds very contradictory in its language and ‘laws.’

 

[inJESUS]

Well until then, he didn’t sin

according to mohammad and to allah, he did, sorry. Whatever sin mohammad/allah was refering to is irrelevant, it is called : sin. So was mohammad a sinner? a clear and big yes.

 

[inJESUS]

Hello Whatevergirl, I believe this is the first time we discuss something together. Nice to meet you! Islam allows polygamy and so did many other Prophets, it is even mentioned in the Bible.

sorry to disappoint you, but God does not allow polygamy.

Jesus is against it.When asked about marriage and divorce, Jesus said, “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” [Matthew 19:4-6; see also Genesis 1:27 and Genesis 2:24; Ephesians 5:31]
God defines marriage as a man LEAVING HIS FATHER AND MOTHER and uniting to his wife, so that TWO become one flesh.

**
Lets see the OT:**

"When thou art come unto the land which the Eternal thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me. . . . Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away" (Deut. 17:14, 17).

Adam had one wife

Abraham Was NOT a Polygamist.

Isaac Had Only One Wife

JACOB: One Wife After Conversion
David REPENTED of Polygamy
Noah had ONE wife
Job had ONE wife
Isaan had ONE wife
Moses had ONE wife
Joseph had ONE wife

We should not expect a word from the Lord on each and every thing we do.
that is, the lack of a specific rebuke by God to every single sin is in no way to be taken as an acceptance or condoning by Him of the behavior. In the beginning God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and a harem.

Sorry, but God does NOT condone polygamy and none of the prophets had the “women privileges” mohammad had as a “reward” for being a prophet…Allah is someone else if he rewarded mohammad with any woman he wishes in addition to a bunch of others. To God, this is a sin.

 

[inJESUS]

in my previous post i meant God does not “condone” and not “allow” …there is difference . It is interesting to note as well that the first occasion of polygamy in the Bible is with Cain the murderer and notice that it is in the line of Cain, the sinful line.

 

[inJESUS]

So why did He allow so many in the Bible to have multiple wives? Where does it state in the Bible not to have multiple wives?

allowing is different than condoning or giving it as a command…God never gave the command to have multiple wives like mohammad…as for allowing, look around you…God allows things to happen, but it does not mean it is His wish…and Jesus made this clear .

doubt I would want to follow a religion where ‘my prophet’ slept with little children,

Here is where you are judging through the eyes of your culture. In your culture she is a child, but in other cultures she is an adult ready for marriage. Read the last post in this thread:
whyislam.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1525&PN=1 did mohammad care about culture or about God? if mohammad is the example of best men, then he failed…Aisha was a baby girl still playing with dolls.am sure allah could have found someone better for a 53 year old “prophet”.

and had multiple partners/wives. I think a prophet should set a higher example. No?

Most of his wives were older divorced women whom he married because they had no one to support them. Read the second post in the above link did he have to marry them to “support” them? why nt give them money or marrying them to good men instead of himself?. and why did he choose only these women and not all those who didn’t have “support” ? Zaid’s wife didn’t need support did she? she was already married but mohammad saw her beauty and said :“Praise be Allah who changeth the hearts of men!” so allah revealed averse to make it halal !! that is against the sacredness of marriage and against God to behave in such a way regarding marriage/divorce.

I thought muslims, christians and jews all worship the same God

We do. clearly we don’t.

The same God doesn’t have different rule books depending on what part of the world you reside. Universal truth. If you choose to not believe universal truth, that is your right.

So who is to say that what you believe is the universal truth and what we have isn’t? We both say it is from God. Also why did rules change from the OT to the NT? because you need to understand that the NT is the fufillment of the OT…Regarding polygamy, Jews and Christians know it is a sin.

I don’t want you to reply to anything I posted above, as we are getting off topic. If you believe Muhammad did a sin according to Islam’s definition of a sin and not anyone elses, then please list it.

it is enough that mohammad prayed for the forgiveness of his sins and what mohammad called " evil " and allah made sure of this as well…what were these sins is irrelevant.

 

[inJESUS]

Let us look at Matthew 25:1-13 from the NIV Bible:

Matthew 25

The Parable of the Ten Virgins

1. "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
2. Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
3. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them.
4. The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps.
5. The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6. "At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’
7. "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.
8. The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’
9. " ‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10. "But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11. "Later the others also came. ‘Sir! Sir!’ they said. ‘Open the door for us!’
12. "But he replied, ‘I tell you the truth, I don’t know you.’
13. "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Isn’t Matthew from the NT?

you know what a PARABLE means don’t you? this has NOTHING to do with marriage but clearly you have absolutely no idea what this parable is talking about cuz it’s taking about the final judgment… If you are trying to find Jesus condoning polygamy, you are clearly wasting your time.

 

[MrS]

A list of 69 “sins” ???

God would say that a sin exists when you offend God in ANY way at all.

A muslim would say, I assume, that Mohammed never offended God in any way at all.

A Catholic should say that being a false prophet, “stealing” from true scripture to create a bogus Koran, calling your religion of violence a mandate from your god etc etc etc is all very sinful. Denying such actions, using your Koran to support your “culture” etc does not negate sin. It only blinds you to Truth… which is also sinful IF you know of your error.

 

[inJESUS]

MrS:

A list of 69 “sins” ???

God would say that a sin exists when you offend God in ANY way at all.

A muslim would say, I assume, that Mohammed never offended God in any way at all.

A Catholic should say that being a false prophet, “stealing” from true scripture to create a bogus Koran, calling your religion of violence a mandate from your god etc etc etc is all very sinful. Denying such actions, using your Koran to support your “culture” etc does not negate sin. It only blinds you to Truth… which is also sinful IF you know of your error.

remember what Isaiah said : woe to you who see evil good and good evil.

From a Christian perspective, mohammad was a sinner par excellence…from Allah’s perspective, many of what God calls sin he calls good.

 

[whatevergirl]

inJesus? Where were you last night when I needed you? LOL
I think that ultimately, anything that would hurt people, emotionally, sexually, and/or physically, could not possibly be the will of God.

Islam was created by a man who wanted his own rulebook, and apparently, a lot of people follow that rule book to this day. I have read that he was illiterate, and the ‘Holy Spirit’ gave him the power to write this. ?? I dunno, just the whole religion sounds like a creation of man–not of God. Creating your own set of rules, that inhibit and make women looks like utter fools, for example, can’t be Godly. Notice, women can’t have four husbands! LOL