J
JoeyWarren
Guest
There is an issue about whether Mohammed was a sinful person or not.
What say you?
- Status
M
Mike_D30
Guest
Moses murdered a man, that’s pretty serious.There is an issue about whether Mohammed was a sinful person or not.
What say you?
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
Mike, what does Moses have to due with OP?
Gonna have to slap you silly! 
M
Mike_D30
Guest
Did you read the post?Mike, what does Moses have to due with OP?
It has to do with the notion in Islam that prophets are sinless, I said Moses murdered a man and was a sinner, clearly. What do you mean slap me silly? Maybe I’m not getting it, but I don’t see how I warranted that reaction.
What exactly are you looking for in a reply to this thread then?
D
Della
Guest
Moses is considered a prophet by Muslims, is he not?Mike, what does Moses have to due with OP?
I
inJESUS
Guest
So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, and **ask forgiveness for thy sin ** and for believing men and believing women. Allah knoweth (both) your place of turmoil and your place of rest.
E
Emad
Guest
Someone on the WhyIslam forum posted this verse and others from the Quran claiming Muhammad was a sinner. Here is my reply to him, I am copying pasting it:
A study of the context shows that the word error or fault in these verses is not talking about sins. It is speaking about the shortcomings and weaknesses. What Allah means to say in surah 48 is this “If you had continued on your struggle with weaknesses, it would have taken you much longer to subdue Arabia, but We have overlooked all those weaknesses and shortcomings only through Our grace, and opened for you at Hudabiya the door to victory, which you could have not achieved on your own.” The surah was revealed at the treaty of Hudaibiya. You have to look at things in their context when interpreting the Quran.
47:19 is speaking about Jihad and again Allah is asking the Prophet peace be upon him to seek forgiveness for his “fault” in order to show us that even the best of mankind should not be boastful about his efforts and that he should admit that all good is from God and not from our effort.
40:55 is speaking about being patient. Again Allah is telling the Prophet peace be be upon him that it is Allah’s help that is keeping him patient and not solely his efforts. And had the Prophet peace be upon him been a little impatient (which is not a sin) but it’s not befitting of a man of his status, thus Allah asked him to seek forgiveness.
If you are saying Muhammad committed major or minor sins according to Islamic law, please show me which sin he committed.
We believe in One God, He begets not nor is He begotten. We believe Jesus is the word of God and one of His mightiest messengers and that he was born miraculously without male intervention. We believe in all prophets and revelations of God. We believe in the Last Day, heaven and hell.
E
Emad
Guest
Moses killed a man by accident, thus he isn’t really held accountable for it. If anyone believes any of the Prophets, including Muhammad peace be upon him, committed a major sin, according to Islam’s definition of a sin, and not your own please list it.
E
Emad
Guest
If you didn’t know that Muslims believe Moses is a Prophet, you have to go back and study the basics of Islamic belief before you discuss anything else.Mike, what does Moses have to due with OP?
I
inJESUS
Guest
the arabic states istaghfir li dhanbika… istaghfir means “seek forgiveness”, and dhanb is the word for sin or guilt… it is a strong word, it does not denote merely minor faults or mistakes.
40:55 Therefore have patience; God’s promise is surely true. Implore forgiveness for your sins, and celebrate the praise of your Lord evening and morning.
48:2 … so that God may forgive you your past and future sins, and perfect His goodness to you
3:11 (Their plight will be) no better than that of the people of Pharaoh and their predecessors: they denied Our Signs and Allah called them to account for their sins. For Allah is strict in punishment.
Allah called Pharaoh’s people to account for their sins, and they were punished for their “dhanb”.
3:16 (Namely) those who say: “Our Lord! we have indeed believed: forgive us then our sins and save us from the agony of the fire.”
Here we see people asking forgiveness for their “dhanb” because without forgiveness of their “dhanb” they will end up in the agony of fire (hell).
5:18 (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah and His beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay ye are but men,- of the men He hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all).”
** Here muhammad is saying that Christians and Jews are being punished by allah for the “dhanb”… thus their “dhanb” earns punishment from Allah, not a wink of an eye.**
5:49 And this (He commands): Judge thou between them by what Allah hath revealed and follow not their vain desires but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which Allah hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away be assured that for some of their crimes it is Allah’s purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious.
** Here “dhanb” is defined as “crimes”. does any sincere person think that a criminal act is more than just a “mistake”? of course not.**
6:6 See they not how many of those before them We did destroy? Generations We had established on the earth in strength such as We have not given to you for whom We poured out rain from the skies in abundance and gave (fertile) streams flowing beneath their (feet): yet for their sins We destroyed them and raised in their wake fresh generations (to succeed them).
** allah is destroying generations of people for their “dhanb”.**
7:100 To those who inherit the earth in succession to its (previous) possessors is it not a guiding (lesson) that if We so willed We could punish them (too) for their sins and seal up their hearts so that they could not hear?
** Here the implication is that people could be punished by allah for their “dhanb”. “Dhanb” is worthy of punishment.**
8:52 "(Deeds) after the manner of the people of Pharaoh and of those before them: they rejected the signs of Allah and Allah punished them for their crimes: for Allah is strong and strict in punishment:
Again, people were punished for their “dhanb = crimes”. Allah is “strong and strict” in dishing out punishment for people’s “dhanb”.
12:29 “O Joseph pass this over! (O wife) ask forgiveness for thy sin for truly thou hast been at fault!”
Here we have a women who tried to seduce Joseph, then falsely accused him of trying to sexually molest her, being instructed to ask forgiveness of her “dhanb”. Is lying a simple “mistake”? no. It is a sin before man and God
12:97 They said: “O our father! ask for us forgiveness for our sins for we were truly at fault.”
** Here we have Joseph’s brothers asking Jacob to ask God to forgive their “dhanb”. what was their “dhanb”? they kidnapped Joseph and sold him into slavery. Then they lied about it to their father. …was this a simple “mistake”, or a “memory lapse”? no, it was a brutal act, motivated by jealousy**
14:10 Their apostles said: “Is there a doubt about Allah the Creator of the heavens and the earth? It is He Who invites you in order that He may forgive you your sins and give you respite for a term appointed!” They said: “Ah! ye are no more than human like ourselves! Ye wish to turn us away from the (gods) our fathers used to worship: then bring us some clear authority.”
Here “dhanb” refers to idolatry. Is idolatry a mere “forgetful” act? And forgiveness of “dhanb” will save them from hellfire. Thus their “dhanb” will send them to hell without forgiveness.
40:55 Therefore have patience; God’s promise is surely true. Implore forgiveness for your sins, and celebrate the praise of your Lord evening and morning.
48:2 … so that God may forgive you your past and future sins, and perfect His goodness to you
3:11 (Their plight will be) no better than that of the people of Pharaoh and their predecessors: they denied Our Signs and Allah called them to account for their sins. For Allah is strict in punishment.
Allah called Pharaoh’s people to account for their sins, and they were punished for their “dhanb”.
3:16 (Namely) those who say: “Our Lord! we have indeed believed: forgive us then our sins and save us from the agony of the fire.”
Here we see people asking forgiveness for their “dhanb” because without forgiveness of their “dhanb” they will end up in the agony of fire (hell).
5:18 (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah and His beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay ye are but men,- of the men He hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all).”
** Here muhammad is saying that Christians and Jews are being punished by allah for the “dhanb”… thus their “dhanb” earns punishment from Allah, not a wink of an eye.**
5:49 And this (He commands): Judge thou between them by what Allah hath revealed and follow not their vain desires but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which Allah hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away be assured that for some of their crimes it is Allah’s purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious.
** Here “dhanb” is defined as “crimes”. does any sincere person think that a criminal act is more than just a “mistake”? of course not.**
6:6 See they not how many of those before them We did destroy? Generations We had established on the earth in strength such as We have not given to you for whom We poured out rain from the skies in abundance and gave (fertile) streams flowing beneath their (feet): yet for their sins We destroyed them and raised in their wake fresh generations (to succeed them).
** allah is destroying generations of people for their “dhanb”.**
7:100 To those who inherit the earth in succession to its (previous) possessors is it not a guiding (lesson) that if We so willed We could punish them (too) for their sins and seal up their hearts so that they could not hear?
** Here the implication is that people could be punished by allah for their “dhanb”. “Dhanb” is worthy of punishment.**
8:52 "(Deeds) after the manner of the people of Pharaoh and of those before them: they rejected the signs of Allah and Allah punished them for their crimes: for Allah is strong and strict in punishment:
Again, people were punished for their “dhanb = crimes”. Allah is “strong and strict” in dishing out punishment for people’s “dhanb”.
12:29 “O Joseph pass this over! (O wife) ask forgiveness for thy sin for truly thou hast been at fault!”
Here we have a women who tried to seduce Joseph, then falsely accused him of trying to sexually molest her, being instructed to ask forgiveness of her “dhanb”. Is lying a simple “mistake”? no. It is a sin before man and God
12:97 They said: “O our father! ask for us forgiveness for our sins for we were truly at fault.”
** Here we have Joseph’s brothers asking Jacob to ask God to forgive their “dhanb”. what was their “dhanb”? they kidnapped Joseph and sold him into slavery. Then they lied about it to their father. …was this a simple “mistake”, or a “memory lapse”? no, it was a brutal act, motivated by jealousy**
14:10 Their apostles said: “Is there a doubt about Allah the Creator of the heavens and the earth? It is He Who invites you in order that He may forgive you your sins and give you respite for a term appointed!” They said: “Ah! ye are no more than human like ourselves! Ye wish to turn us away from the (gods) our fathers used to worship: then bring us some clear authority.”
Here “dhanb” refers to idolatry. Is idolatry a mere “forgetful” act? And forgiveness of “dhanb” will save them from hellfire. Thus their “dhanb” will send them to hell without forgiveness.
I
inJESUS
Guest
26:14 “And they have a charge of crime against me; and I fear they may slay me.”
** Here is Moses speaking. He said that he was charged with a “dhanb = crime”. What was the crime? murder. Would any Muslim say that murder is something that God overlooks?**
28:78 He said: “This has been given to me because of a certain knowledge which I have.” Did he not know that Allah had destroyed before him (whole) generations which were superior to him in strength and greater in amount (of riches) they had collected? But the wicked are not called (immediately) to account for their sins.
** Here, the reference is to Allah destroying entire generations on account of their “dhanb”. Does allah destroy entire generations because of simple mistakes**
29:40 Each one of them We seized for his crime: of them against some We sent a violent tornado (with showers of stones); some were caught by a (mighty) Blast; some We caused the earth to swallow up; and some We drowned (in the waters): it was not Allah Who injured (or oppressed) them: they injured (and oppressed) their own souls.
Allah says he seized people for their “dhanb = crime”. Look at how he punished them: violent tornado, showers of stones, mighty blast, swallowed by the earth, drowned in the water. Aren’t these “dhanb” bad? does “dhanb” sound like it is something that God ignores? No. Rather, God sternly punishes “dhanb”.
so we have seen what dhanb means in quran…it is not a mistake but a sin…And muhammad committed “dhanb”… hewas told to ask forgiveness for his “dhanb”. and he taught in the Quran that forgiveness of “dhanb” was required to get into Paradise, otherwise, a person with unforgiven “dhanb” ends up in hell.
Now Bukhari hadith:
“Oh Allah! You are my Lord. None has the right to be worshiped but You. You created me, and I am your slave, and I am faithful to my covenant and my promise as much as I can. I acknowledge before You , all the blessings You have bestowed upon me and confess to You all my sins, so please forgive them, as no one can forgive sins except You. And I seek refuge in You from all the evil I have done.”
8.379: Narrated 'Aisha:
The Prophet used to say, “O Allah! I seek refuge with You from laziness and geriatric old age, from all kinds of sins and from being in debt; from the affliction of the Fire and from the punishment of the Fire and from the evil of the affliction of wealth; and I seek refuge with You from the affliction of poverty, and I seek refuge with You from the affliction of Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal. O Allah! Wash away my sins with the water of snow and hail, and cleanse my heart from all the sins as a white garment is cleansed from the filth, and let there be a long distance between me and my sins, as You made East and West far from each other.”
“O my Lord! Forgive my sins and my ignorance and my exceeding the limits of righteousness in all my deeds and what you know better than I. O Allah. Forgive my mistakes, those done intentionally or out of my ignorance or without or with seriousness, and I confess that all such mistakes are done by me. O Allah! Forgive my sins of the past and of the future with I did openly or secretly. You are the One Who makes the things go before and You are the One Who delays them, and You are the Omnipotent.”
In these prayers, Muhammad uses a different word for sin. Instead of using “dhanb”, he uses the root word “khati’a”.
The Encyclopedia of Islam [9] defines Khati’a as:
"Moral lapse, sin, a synonym of dhanb. The root means “to fail, stumble”, “make a mistake”, “of an archer whose arrow misses the target”.
In his prayers, muhammad acknowledges a whole type of sin: evil, mistakes, ignorance, wrong, accidental errors, intentional errors, past and future sins, and filth… .these are not simple “mistakes”, these are offensive sins in the context of his prayers.
** Here is Moses speaking. He said that he was charged with a “dhanb = crime”. What was the crime? murder. Would any Muslim say that murder is something that God overlooks?**
28:78 He said: “This has been given to me because of a certain knowledge which I have.” Did he not know that Allah had destroyed before him (whole) generations which were superior to him in strength and greater in amount (of riches) they had collected? But the wicked are not called (immediately) to account for their sins.
** Here, the reference is to Allah destroying entire generations on account of their “dhanb”. Does allah destroy entire generations because of simple mistakes**
29:40 Each one of them We seized for his crime: of them against some We sent a violent tornado (with showers of stones); some were caught by a (mighty) Blast; some We caused the earth to swallow up; and some We drowned (in the waters): it was not Allah Who injured (or oppressed) them: they injured (and oppressed) their own souls.
Allah says he seized people for their “dhanb = crime”. Look at how he punished them: violent tornado, showers of stones, mighty blast, swallowed by the earth, drowned in the water. Aren’t these “dhanb” bad? does “dhanb” sound like it is something that God ignores? No. Rather, God sternly punishes “dhanb”.
so we have seen what dhanb means in quran…it is not a mistake but a sin…And muhammad committed “dhanb”… hewas told to ask forgiveness for his “dhanb”. and he taught in the Quran that forgiveness of “dhanb” was required to get into Paradise, otherwise, a person with unforgiven “dhanb” ends up in hell.
Now Bukhari hadith:
“Oh Allah! You are my Lord. None has the right to be worshiped but You. You created me, and I am your slave, and I am faithful to my covenant and my promise as much as I can. I acknowledge before You , all the blessings You have bestowed upon me and confess to You all my sins, so please forgive them, as no one can forgive sins except You. And I seek refuge in You from all the evil I have done.”
8.379: Narrated 'Aisha:
The Prophet used to say, “O Allah! I seek refuge with You from laziness and geriatric old age, from all kinds of sins and from being in debt; from the affliction of the Fire and from the punishment of the Fire and from the evil of the affliction of wealth; and I seek refuge with You from the affliction of poverty, and I seek refuge with You from the affliction of Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal. O Allah! Wash away my sins with the water of snow and hail, and cleanse my heart from all the sins as a white garment is cleansed from the filth, and let there be a long distance between me and my sins, as You made East and West far from each other.”
“O my Lord! Forgive my sins and my ignorance and my exceeding the limits of righteousness in all my deeds and what you know better than I. O Allah. Forgive my mistakes, those done intentionally or out of my ignorance or without or with seriousness, and I confess that all such mistakes are done by me. O Allah! Forgive my sins of the past and of the future with I did openly or secretly. You are the One Who makes the things go before and You are the One Who delays them, and You are the Omnipotent.”
In these prayers, Muhammad uses a different word for sin. Instead of using “dhanb”, he uses the root word “khati’a”.
The Encyclopedia of Islam [9] defines Khati’a as:
"Moral lapse, sin, a synonym of dhanb. The root means “to fail, stumble”, “make a mistake”, “of an archer whose arrow misses the target”.
In his prayers, muhammad acknowledges a whole type of sin: evil, mistakes, ignorance, wrong, accidental errors, intentional errors, past and future sins, and filth… .these are not simple “mistakes”, these are offensive sins in the context of his prayers.
I
inJESUS
Guest
Sahih Muslim, [10], Book 4, Number 1212:
Narrated Aisha:
“The Prophet entered my house when a Jewess was with me and she was saying: Do you know that you would be put to trial in the grave? The Messenger of Allah trembled (on hearing this) and said: It is the Jews only who would be put to trial. Aisha said: We passed some nights and then the Messenger of Allah said: Do you know that it has been revealed to me: “You would be put to trial in the grave”? Aisha said: I heard the Messenger of Allah seeking refuge from the torment of the grave after this.”
Allah “revealed” to muhammad he would be put to trial in the grave & muhammad constantly prayed for refuge from his upcoming torment. why? If Muhammad were so pure and innocent, why would Allah be tormenting him in the grave? muhammad was aware of his sins, and thus, he prayed for forgiveness
Muhammad admitted he was a sinner. He called his sins “filth” and “evil”… however, later Muslims invented an un-islamic teaching that muhammad was not a sinner… they did this primarily to elevate muhammad to a level near equal to Jesus maybe cuz they couldt tolerate the fact that mohammad was inferior to Jesus… muhammad was a sinner in the truest sense of the word. Even in his own theology his sins caused God’s punishment unless they were forgiven.
Heb 4:14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are–yet was without sin.
Narrated Aisha:
“The Prophet entered my house when a Jewess was with me and she was saying: Do you know that you would be put to trial in the grave? The Messenger of Allah trembled (on hearing this) and said: It is the Jews only who would be put to trial. Aisha said: We passed some nights and then the Messenger of Allah said: Do you know that it has been revealed to me: “You would be put to trial in the grave”? Aisha said: I heard the Messenger of Allah seeking refuge from the torment of the grave after this.”
Allah “revealed” to muhammad he would be put to trial in the grave & muhammad constantly prayed for refuge from his upcoming torment. why? If Muhammad were so pure and innocent, why would Allah be tormenting him in the grave? muhammad was aware of his sins, and thus, he prayed for forgiveness
Muhammad admitted he was a sinner. He called his sins “filth” and “evil”… however, later Muslims invented an un-islamic teaching that muhammad was not a sinner… they did this primarily to elevate muhammad to a level near equal to Jesus maybe cuz they couldt tolerate the fact that mohammad was inferior to Jesus… muhammad was a sinner in the truest sense of the word. Even in his own theology his sins caused God’s punishment unless they were forgiven.
Heb 4:14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are–yet was without sin.
E
Emad
Guest
InJesus, I am still waiting for you to list which sin Muhammad peace be upon him committed according to Islam’s definition of a sin. He did seek refuge from God’s punishment and the punishment of the grave. He also said that he seeks Allahs forgiveness more than 70 or 100 times everyday. He did these things to teach us. Moses was charged for a crime, it was a mistake and it happened before he was a Prophet. Also Jospeh never lied and his brothers weren’t Prophets. The Prophet peace be upon him had shortcomings, for example he never thanked Allah as Allah sould be thanked, no one can do that. No one can praise and thank God enough. So the prophet peace be upon him could have been seeking forgiveness for something like that. Again, if you claim he was a sinner, show me which sin he committed according to Islam’s definition of a sin.
I
inJESUS
Guest
i don’t care what were his sins…the fact is that he prayed for forgiveness of his sins and allah mentioned it as well and allah knows best .
E
Emad
Guest
Well until then, he didn’t sin. A sin can be something big and something small. List the sin he did. He did that to teach us that no matter how good one might be, he is still not perfect and must ask Allah for forgiveness. Muslims follow Muhammad in everything he did, if he never sought forgiveness, Muslims would also think they don’t have to. However if the best has to, anyone under him also has to.
A
asquared
Guest
was he a human being? then he was a sinner. with the exception of Jesus, who was perfect in his human nature, and Mary who was conceived without sin due to the grace of her Son, every human being who has ever inhabited this planet has been a sinner, so the answer is yes. As to his specific sins, I am not his judge, so it is a matter of no interest.
E
Emad
Guest
That is your belief, however your belief isn’t proof. Evidence is. Show me where he committed a sin according to Islam’s definition of sins.
W
whatevergirl
Guest
Didn’t he have several wives at one time? And, didn’t he sleep with a 12 year old girl when he was like…50??? I dunno…that falls into mortal sin for me. There should be objective truth…not, well muslims wouldn’t consider that a mortal sin because they can have several wives in their culture. (even to this day) I believe that’s adultery, so yes, in my opinion, he committed mortal sins.
E
Emad
Guest
Hello Whatevergirl, I believe this is the first time we discuss something together. Nice to meet you!
Islam allows polygamy and so did many other Prophets, it is even mentioned in the Bible. Polygamy is accepted in many places around the world, so is getting married while you are young. No one in Muhammads time, even his worst enemies ever attacked him for what he did (having multiple wives or marrying Aisha after she went’ through puberty) because it was normal all over the world. Don’t judge other ways through the eyes of your own culture. Surely people in other countries might think it is abnormal to wait until you are 25 or 30 to get married, does it mean they are right? No just that they are judging others through the eyes of their culture. Muhammad peace be upon him practiced what he preached, just like all other Prophets peace be upon them all.
W
whatevergirl
Guest
Hi Emad–thank you for your candor. I’m not judging from the eyes of my culture…I’m looking at this from the objective truth–the truth that God wouldn’t want a man to have several wives. Yes, women got married very young in biblical times, but Jesus slept with no one, and I doubt I would want to follow a religion where ‘my prophet’ slept with little children, and had multiple partners/wives. I think a prophet should set a higher example. No?
The muslim culture may accept this, but it’s man made. God wouldn’t give christians a different set of values, and muslims another. The 10 Commandments are universal truth. If we differ, then are we saying we worship two different Gods??? That would be bizarre, no?? I thought muslims, christians and jews all worship the same God. The same God doesn’t have different rule books depending on what part of the world you reside. Universal truth. If you choose to not believe universal truth, that is your right. But, God isn’t interested in accomodating our cultural whims…He is the same, now and forever.
The muslim culture may accept this, but it’s man made. God wouldn’t give christians a different set of values, and muslims another. The 10 Commandments are universal truth. If we differ, then are we saying we worship two different Gods??? That would be bizarre, no?? I thought muslims, christians and jews all worship the same God. The same God doesn’t have different rule books depending on what part of the world you reside. Universal truth. If you choose to not believe universal truth, that is your right. But, God isn’t interested in accomodating our cultural whims…He is the same, now and forever.
- Status