Was Mohammed a Sinner?

[Scholastic17]

Emad:

Anyone who said Jesus is the son of God is a liar according to my belief. However this thread isn’t about Jesus, it’s about Muhammad being a sinner, you accused him of lying, show me where he lied according to Islam’s definition of lying.

A) Jesus being God is directly relevent to Muhammed being a sinner, because Muhammed said otherwise.

B) I don’t care what you believe

C) I doubt the Apostles lied as concerning what Jesus said. Let us consider the early Christians as opposed to the early Muslims.

The St. Peter was crucified upside down because of his testimony as concerning Jesus.

St. Paul was martyred (I forget how).

St. Bartholemeu was flayed alive.

The Romans and the Jews slaughtered any Christian they could find up until Constantine because they said that Jesus is Lord. The Christians had nothing to gain from a lie. Therefore, i am inclined to believe that what they spoke was a true testimony. The gospels are valid accounts.

Let us consider Muhammed. The first thing he did after spreading his message was raise an army and threaten to attack Mecca. He had plenty to gain from a lie. Don’t you think?

 

[Emad]

Scholastic17:

A) Jesus being God is directly relevent to Muhammed being a sinner, because Muhammed said otherwise.

B) I don’t care what you believe

C) I doubt the Apostles lied as concerning what Jesus said. Let us consider the early Christians as opposed to the early Muslims.

The St. Peter was crucified upside down because of his testimony as concerning Jesus.

St. Paul was martyred (I forget how).

St. Bartholemeu was flayed alive.

The Romans and the Jews slaughtered any Christian they could find up until Constantine because they said that Jesus is Lord. The Christians had nothing to gain from a lie. Therefore, i am inclined to believe that what they spoke was a true testimony. The gospels are valid accounts.

Let us consider Muhammed. The first thing he did after spreading his message was raise an army and threaten to attack Mecca. He had plenty to gain from a lie. Don’t you think?

Great you list me your beliefs and say they are hard facts. You didn’t answer my question. Let me restate it:

Muslims believe Muhammad peace be upon him wasn’t a sinner. Some said that we believe he was. So I told them to list their proof where he sinned and since they claimed it is my belief, they have to also use my belief of a definition of a sin, not anyone elses. So I am waiting for someone to list a sin that he did according to Islams definition of a sin. NOTHING else, not your beliefs or anything else. Back it up with Islamic evidence.

 

[Scholastic17]

Emad:

Great you list me your beliefs and say they are hard facts. You didn’t answer my question. Let me restate it:

Muslims believe Muhammad peace be upon him wasn’t a sinner. Some said that we believe he was. So I told them to list their proof where he sinned and since they claimed it is my belief, they have to also use my belief of a definition of a sin, not anyone elses. So I am waiting for someone to list a sin that he did according to Islams definition of a sin. NOTHING else, not your beliefs or anything else. Back it up with Islamic evidence.

Again, i am not a moral relativist. I don’t have to show Muhammed as a sinner in the eyes of Islam. I merely have to show him a sinner. I don’t have to show him a liar in the eyes of Islam (which is a lie.) I merely have to show him a liar. The blood of the martyrs sow him a liar.

 

[Emad]

Scholastic17:

Again, i am not a moral relativist. I don’t have to show Muhammed as a sinner in the eyes of Islam. I merely have to show him a sinner. I don’t have to show him a liar in the eyes of Islam (which is a lie.) I merely have to show him a liar. The blood of the martyrs sow him a liar.

Great you are free to believe that just as I am free to believe that anyone who said Jesus is God is a liar. That is not what this thread is about, it is about someone who claimed he was according to Islams teachings. You didn’t need to post here, because I already knew that you believe he was a liar. Otherwise you would be Muslim right?

 

[Scholastic17]

Emad:

Great you are free to believe that just as I am free to believe that anyone who said Jesus is God is a liar. That is not what this thread is about, it is about someone who claimed he was according to Islams teachings. You didn’t need to post here, because I already knew that you believe he was a liar. Otherwise you would be Muslim right?

My point stands. The blood of the martyrs shows Muhammed to have been a liar.

 

[Emad]

Scholastic17:

My point stands. The blood of the martyrs shows Muhammed to have been a liar.

Good for you, but that is not what this thread is about. I already told you that you believe that and you are free to believe it. I believe otherwise. That is not the issue I have in this thread.

 

[Scholastic17]

Emad:

Good for you, but that is not what this thread is about. I already told you that you believe that and you are free to believe it. I believe otherwise. That is not the issue I have in this thread.

Answer me this: What is the Islamic definition of “falsehood”?

 

[Emad]

Scholastic17:

Answer me this: What is the Islamic definition of “falsehood”?

I will not answer it because it is off topic. If you can’t list a sin Muhammad peace be upon him did according to Islam’s definition of a sin, then please don’t try to throw the thread off topic.

 

[I_Leatherman]

Well you asked:

Emad:

Can we please get back on topic? Don’t judge a sin according to your own definition, if you say Muhammad lied, show me where and what he said is a lie and prove its a lie. … Muhammad sought forgiveness for his “sins” because he was giving us an example. If the Prophet who is our example never asked for forgiveness, what kind of example is he setting?

“…The Messenger of Allah said: Do you know that it has been revealed to me: “You would be put to trial in the grave”?
Aisha said: I heard the Messenger of Allah seeking refuge from the torment of the grave after this.”

Allah clearly felt Muhammed had sinned, but you say Muhammed thought he had not sinned, so is Muhammed now calling Allah a liar.
Or, when Muhammed asks for forgiveness for sins he did not commit, that too is called lying, and is a sin in itself.
Those sins of Muhammeds fall under these headings:

1. Lying about Allah or His Messenger
2. Bearing false witness
3. Lying frequently

Laying seige to and attacking a city that saw him as a nuisance and kicked him out, also falls under this heading:
59. Arguing and disputing violently

 

[JoeyWarren]

I Leatherman:

Well you asked:"…The Messenger of Allah said: Do you know that it has been revealed to me: “You would be put to trial in the grave”? Aisha said: I heard the Messenger of Allah seeking refuge from the torment of the grave after this." Allah clearly felt Muhammed had sinned, but you say Muhammed thought he had not sinned, so is Muhammed now calling Allah a liar.
Or, when Muhammed asks for forgiveness for sins he did not commit, that too is called lying, and is a sin in itself. Those sins of Muhammeds fall under these headings:
14. Lying about Allah or His Messenger
18. Bearing false witness
30. Lying frequently
Laying seige to and attacking a city that saw him as a nuisance and kicked him out, also falls under this heading:
59. Arguing and disputing violently

I think he has got you there Emad…

 

[zingo227]

JoeyWarren:

There is an issue about whether Mohammed was a sinful person or not.
What say you?

answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Enemies/index.html

There are many issues one needs to look at when evaluating the character of a person. There is no doubt that Muhammad had also a great many good traits and achieved important reforms in Arabia that were for the good. The claim, however, is not only that he is a reformer, but that he is the spokesman for God and the model for mankind and as such the standard is put higher and we need to look at all he does not only the positive features that are emphasized by the Muslims in their books, speeches and web sites.

One of the most telling observations about the character of people is how they deal with their enemies. When we are put under pressure by being challenged and questioned, then our real character and personality is revealed that might easily be hidden when everything is under control.

The flawless character of Muhammad is often used as evidence for him being the prophet of God and his message, the Qur’an, to be the very word of God.

This page will provide you with source material and our conclusions so that you can read and make your own evaluation and informed decision what you will believe about this historically very important person who greatly influenced our world for the better or worse.

The following are names of people whose execution was suggested, requested or ordered by Muhammad. Many of them were assassinated, some got away for reasons of unforeseen circumstances. But deeds are judged by intention and the intention or request for assassination is serious in itself.

 

[Emad]

“…The Messenger of Allah said: Do you know that it has been revealed to me: “You would be put to trial in the grave”?
Aisha said: I heard the Messenger of Allah seeking refuge from the torment of the grave after this.”

Allah clearly felt Muhammed had sinned, but you say Muhammed thought he had not sinned, so is Muhammed now calling Allah a liar.
Or, when Muhammed asks for forgiveness for sins he did not commit, that too is called lying, and is a sin in itself.
Those sins of Muhammeds fall under these headings:

Muhammad is a human and has human shortcomings, this is what he would seek forgiveness for. That no matter what he did it was not enough as to what God deserves, this is not a sin, but it is just feeling how much more God deserves to be praised and worshiped and how little you do, though you are doing all you can.

1. Lying about Allah or His Messenger
2. Bearing false witness
3. Lying frequently

List examples of all of the above please. Don’t quote me Bible verses.

Laying seige to and attacking a city that saw him as a nuisance and kicked him out, also falls under this heading:
59. Arguing and disputing violently

Attacking Mecca? Go read about how he entered Mecca, he was in full power and had the chance to slaughter everyone in it, yet he entered saying he forgives everyone and none but 1-2 people were killed. They also welcomed him and many were Muslims already.

 

[Emad]

answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Enemies/index.html

There are many issues one needs to look at when evaluating the character of a person. There is no doubt that Muhammad had also a great many good traits and achieved important reforms in Arabia that were for the good. The claim, however, is not only that he is a reformer, but that he is the spokesman for God and the model for mankind and as such the standard is put higher and we need to look at all he does not only the positive features that are emphasized by the Muslims in their books, speeches and web sites.

One of the most telling observations about the character of people is how they deal with their enemies. When we are put under pressure by being challenged and questioned, then our real character and personality is revealed that might easily be hidden when everything is under control.

The flawless character of Muhammad is often used as evidence for him being the prophet of God and his message, the Qur’an, to be the very word of God.

This page will provide you with source material and our conclusions so that you can read and make your own evaluation and informed decision what you will believe about this historically very important person who greatly influenced our world for the better or worse.

The following are names of people whose execution was suggested, requested or ordered by Muhammad. Many of them were assassinated, some got away for reasons of unforeseen circumstances. But deeds are judged by intention and the intention or request for assassination is serious in itself.

Do you have your own brain? Or do you have to rely on others to think for you? You can’t even think of your own garbage so you have to borrow it from others. I will not respond to claims from answering-islam unless you allow me to list claims from answering christianity for you to answer.

 

[Scholastic17]

Emad:

I will not answer it because it is off topic. If you can’t list a sin Muhammad peace be upon him did according to Islam’s definition of a sin, then please don’t try to throw the thread off topic.

A lie, by definition, is something that is falsely reported in which the person reporting understands that the statement is false. Muhammed never knew Jesus. That is a fact. He took what he understood of Byzantine Christianity and perverted it to his ends.The apostles knew Christ. Muhammed falsely said things as concerning Jesus, most likely in full knowledge that these things were false. If you’ll really take a good, long look at Islam, you’ll find that it is nothing but Orthodox Judaism and Byzantine Christianity rolled into one with the added Muhammetian influence. Islam was nothing but a big scheme for Muhammed to rise in status.

In the words of Hitler: “The masses will more easily believe a big lie than a small one.”

Islam is one big, giant lie, and rest you assured, the masses have believed it.

Muhammed was a liar, a heretic, and therefore a sinner.

 

[JoeyWarren]

I am really gonna have to get a copy of the Quran. So I can discern this as well.

 

[zingo227]

Emad:

Do you have your own brain? Or do you have to rely on others to think for you? You can’t even think of your own garbage so you have to borrow it from others. I will not respond to claims from answering-islam unless you allow me to list claims from answering christianity for you to answer.

go for it pal

nothing personal, I will trust that website before I trust islam or it’s followers

 

[NonDenom]

There is an issue about whether Mohammed was a sinful person or not.
What say you?

Hi All
Of course Mohammad was a sinner, Jesus is the only person who was sinnless.
In Him and Only Him

 

[inJESUS]

Emad, i gave you hadith and prayer and a verse saying that mohammad needed to ask forgiveness for his dhanb…dhanb according to quran is something to be punished and deserves hell…i don’t care what dhanb allah/mohammad was refering to…the point is that there is a dhanb that needs forgiveness …and no mohammad was not giving you an example cuz allah mentioned mohammad in addition to other people…Sura 40:55 and 48:1-2 are only about mohammad’s sins…and in muhammad’s words, he is nothing but a human like all humans.Sura 18:110

Can you show me where in quran it says that mohammad is sinless? i showed you verses where Allah ask mohammad to ask for forgiveness of his sins…can you show me where Allah says mohammad is sinless?

 

[inJESUS]

Dude (a word i do find very endearing ), that is exactly what the Children of Israel said about Jesus. They denied him based on the “he’s crazy”

no they rejected him because they waited a political “saviour” and not a spiritual one.

and you deny Muhammad based on that same idea

i don’t believe he was crazy…he was a very sane and intelligent man though ignorant of too many things regarding Judaism and Christianity…

You are basing those 3 views on an idea that I dont believe: *that Jesus said he was divine. *

Jesus was not crazy, nor was he a liar. He was a man sent by God (as he himself said) who did only God’s will, not his own will (as he himself said) to call people back to the worship of one God. why you accept these and you do not accept the other things? the authors talked about both natures of Jesus. Choosing one and rejecting one is not how a testimony book must be read.

Divnity belongs to the One who never sleeps and is never in need of food and drink.

can you claim that God cannot take a human body and retain his divine nature?

 

[inJESUS]

That isn’t proof. Jesus also said he wasn’t divine according to us. It’s God’s word against yours.

it is God’s Word against Allah’s word…and since we believe in God who preserves His Word cuz He cares about His people, then we believe the Bible…

Now you tell me:

O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of Allah: as said Jesus the son of Mary to the Disciples, “Who will be my helpers to (the work of) Allah?” Said the Disciples, “We are Allah’s helpers!” then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved: But We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, AND THEY BECAME THE ONES THAT PREVAILED. S. 61:14

According to these passages, Allah gave Christ’s followers the power to prevail over the disbelievers & made them superior till the day of resurrection…yet the ones that prevailed were the ones who wrote the NT …which means that the prevailing Bible is the truth…