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JimmyDFG
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Also the bahai believe that was the second coming of Christ as mírza husayn- alí nurí / baha’u’llah :whacky:
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TonyBS
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Hello Jeffrey hope all is well.
To me and Interestingly this ties into the Koran and the Book of revelation.
As such there is much proof that Muhammad was the “Seal of the Prophets” Muhammad brought the age of Prophesy about the coming of Gods Kingdom to a close and opened the door for the Fulfillment to come.
What a day we live in!
God bless and regards Tony
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TonyBS
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Been posted before so no need to repeat in great detail. The entire chapter 11 is about Muhammad.
Verse 11:3 give the time of 1260 years that the Two Witnesses Muhammad and Ali were given power unto. A message clothed in sackcloth.
This is an explanation of verse 11:3
"In the Qur’an it is said that God addressed Muhammad, the Messenger of God, saying: “We made You a Witness, a Herald of good news, and a Warner” – that is to say, We have established Thee as the witness, the giver of good tidings, and as One bringing the wrath of God.[1] The meaning of “a witness” is one by whose testimony things may be verified. The commands of these two witnesses were to be performed for twelve hundred and sixty days, each day signifying a year. Now, Muhammad was the root, and Ali the branch, like Moses and Joshua. It is said they “are clothed in sackcloth,” meaning that they, apparently, were to be clothed in old raiment, not in new raiment; in other words, in the beginning they would possess no splendor in the eyes of the people, nor would their Cause appear new; for Muhammad’s spiritual Law corresponds to that of Christ in the Gospel, and most of His laws relating to material things correspond to those of the Pentateuch. This is the meaning of the old raiment".
[1] This sentence is the Persian translation of the Arabic text of the Qur’an which has been quoted.
Regards Tony
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IgnatianPhilo
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Does it follow from Muslims and Catholics worshipping the same God that the Prophet of Islam is a Prophet of the God of Catholics?
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HelenRose
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I don’t believe that he is a prophet but I do think that he worshiped the same God.
I believe that because the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that. See article 841 in the CCC.
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Adonia
Guest
Well, there are many parts of the world where the sword is being wielded by those who profess to follow Muhammad and are using the very words he wrote as their permission. (Boko Harum, Hezbollah, ISIS, Islamic Jihad, Al Queada to name a few) It’s quite telling that with all the atrocities being perpetrated today by Muslims, few Muslims speak out against them.
The Palestinian Authority routinely whips up it’s citizens with anti-Jewish and anti-western behavior on TV and in their schools. As you well know, on 9-11 sweets were passed out in many places in the Muslim world celebrating the death and destruction of that day. Saudi Arabia’s Wahhabism brand of Islam is likewise full of hatred for the infidel ( there are not any Christian places of worship in that country I am told). I’m not really seeing a lot of love coming from the worldwide Muslim community. As a member of a faith that professes harmony between all people’s, I have to wonder how you offer such a spirited defense of them.
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TonyBS
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To show how chapter 11 continues talking about Muhammad and Ali I will post another small bit about the interpretation of this chapter. There is a full explanation available;
Then it is said: “These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”[1] These two souls are likened to olive trees because at that time all lamps were lighted by olive oil. The meaning is two persons from whom that spirit of the wisdom of God, which is the cause of the illumination of the world, appears. These lights of God were to radiate and shine; therefore, they are likened to two candlesticks: the candlestick is the abode of the light, and from it the light shines forth. In the same way the light of guidance would shine and radiate from these illumined souls. [1 Rev. 11:4.]
Then it is said: “They are standing before God,” meaning that they are standing in the service of God, and educating the creatures of God, such as the barbarous nomad Arab tribes of the Arabian peninsula, whom they educated in such a way that in those days they reached the highest degree of civilization, and their fame and renown became worldwide.
“And if any man would hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies.”[1]That is to say, that no one would be able to withstand them, that if a person wished to belittle their teachings and their law, he would be surrounded and exterminated by this same law which proceedeth out of their mouth; and everyone who attempted to injure, to antagonize and to hate them would be destroyed by a command which would come out of their mouth. And thus it happened: all their enemies were vanquished, put to flight and annihilated. In this most evident way God assisted them. [1 Cf. Rev. 11:5.]
Afterward it is said: “These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy,”[1] meaning that in that cycle they would be like kings. The law and teachings of Muhammad, and the explanations and commentaries of Ali, are a heavenly bounty; if they wish to give this bounty, they have power to do so. If they do not wish it, the rain will not fall: in this connection rain stands for bounty. [1 Rev. 11:6.]
Then it is said: “They have power over water to turn it to blood,”[1] meaning that the prophethood of Muhammad was the same as that of Moses, and that the power of Ali was the same as that of Joshua: if they wished, they could turn the water of the Nile into blood, so far as the Egyptians and those who denied them were concerned – that is to say, that that which was the cause of their life, through their ignorance and pride, became the cause of their death. So the kingdom, wealth and power of Pharaoh and his people, which were the causes of the life of the nation, became, through their opposition, denial and pride, the cause of death, destruction, dispersion, degradation and poverty. Hence these two witnesses have power to destroy the nations. [1 Cf. Rev. 11:6.]
What I like is if we look for the Oneness of all Religions under our One and Only God, connections are found, connections are made.
If we wish to not look for connections then division is the inevitable consequence.
God Bless and Regards Tony
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RebeccaJ
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No.
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jeffrey_erwin
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**For me the central problem is how to accept Muhammad as a legitimate religious teacher while at the same time not converting to Islam. I have explained my view in my two previous posts.
Mohammed was like a “Moses” that YHWH sent to the tribes of Ishmael some 2000 years later. While Christians should show respect to him and to Islam, we do not need to convert to that religion.
Furthermore we should also learn from the teachings of the recent messiah of Islam and give up our resistance to the formation of a world government.
We could have it now, but, because of vehement opposition to that idea, the world will have to suffer the ravages of WW III, a global nuclear war, before such becomes a reality. **
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TonyBS
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Funny - Quoted someone, obviously deleted post 
Thus Put this quote in its place
It is not to man that we look for Proof, it is to God we turn in Love, ask and let out heart guide us.
The Word after the Prophet has passed on is our guide, not the way man Interprets it for His own advantage.
When we read the Word the most fundamental Law of God stands out “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.
Regards Tony
Thus Put this quote in its place
If we look to the way that man behaves when Following a Message from God, there is not one Religion that could pass the Test, Baha’i included.
It is not to man that we look for Proof, it is to God we turn in Love, ask and let out heart guide us.
The Word after the Prophet has passed on is our guide, not the way man Interprets it for His own advantage.
When we read the Word the most fundamental Law of God stands out “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.
Regards Tony
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IgnatianPhilo
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What does it mean to say Muhammad was like a Moses to the Arabs? Did the Arabs need Moses more than they needed Jesus? It seems like a regression if we compare a later “Prophet” who contradicted Christianity and said we were in error, a Moses when as Christians we believe Jesus inaugurated a new covenant which was different from the previous one established with Moses. Why should Christians show respect to a regression?
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Techno2000
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Early Christians, such as Tertullian, Irenaeus, and Hippolytus of Rome, have concluded that the two witnesses would be Enoch and Elijah, prophets who did not die because God “took” them. Others have proposed Moses as one of the witnesses, for his ability to turn water into blood and the power to plague the earth.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_witnesses
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RebeccaJ
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Still, no.Funny - Quoted someone, obviously deleted post
Thus Put this quote in its place
If we look to the way that man behaves when Following a Message from God, there is not one Religion that could pass the Test, Baha’i included.
It is not to man that we look for Proof, it is to God we turn in Love, ask and let out heart guide us.
The Word after the Prophet has passed on is our guide, not the way man Interprets it for His own advantage.
When we read the Word the most fundamental Law of God stands out “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.
Regards Tony
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TonyBS
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This is the book of Revelation talking about things to come.
It does use Old Testament passages from Daniel most specifically the 1260 years as to when the Seals will be opened.
The Spirit has talked to the Churches 3 Times since Christ, the first was In 622AD through Muhmmad.
Then as foretold in the bible the year 1260 saw the fulfillment of all that man has prayed and waited for.
Regards Tony
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JimmyDFG
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Any answers you get to this question are going to be speculations and guesses. My guesses are Enoch and Elijah, the only two Old Testament characters who did not die, and who must die to fulfill the scripture that it is appointed to every [wo]man to die. Or, if that verse is not to be taken absolutely literally, then second place on my list is Moses and Elijah, who appeared talking to Jesus on Mt. Tabor.
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JimmyDFG
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But when did the count down to the 1260 start?
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IgnatianPhilo
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Muhammad didn’t so much talk to the church as he tried to destroy it. Specifically in wanting to conquer Byzantium and then Rome. Ali Nuri didn’t so much talk to the Church as he talked to Muslims.
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TonyBS
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From Muhammad, The year 1260 AH is 1844AD.
Daniel gives you the 1844, Revelation confirms it with Muhammad.
Regards Tony
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TonyBS
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Both messages were rejected by the Divines of the age, thus they deprived mankind of a better destiny. Scripture tells of the error of the Divines throughout history.
Regards Tony
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IgnatianPhilo
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I think the Christians rejected Islam for a good reason, the Muslims began invading and taking over Christian lands. The message was: “Convert or be enslaved or die.” But I brought this point up in my first post. Why would God establish for himself a new community that was totally separated from the community he established in Christ and then let the two basically war it out for fourteen centuries?
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