Was my confession valid?

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I believe you are mis-representing me. Earlier, you were taking apart a strawman that what the priest wears affects the validity of the sacrament. That is not what I meant. Now you are trying to equate what I am saying with the heresy of believing sacramental validity depends on the purity from sin of the priest.

“A gem is a gem no matter who gives it to you” would only work if there was no such criteria as “correct intention”. But, correct intention is one of the three criteria for a valid sacrament. And as I said before, if the priest treats the sacrament as a casual event, is irreverent, and doesn’t bother to wear the correct vesture, his intention can be up to questioning.
 
ImmaculataFides said:
I believe you are mis-representing me. Earlier, you were taking apart a strawman that what the priest wears affects the validity of the sacrament. That is not what I meant. Now you are trying to equate what I am saying with the heresy of believing sacramental validity depends on the purity from sin of the priest.
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You were the one who stated that the mere facts that a priest dresses casually ( regardless entirely of any mention of the reasons the priest may have for doing so - eg engagements immediately pre or post confession that require the casual garb and allow no time to change) and holds a particular coffee cup (again regardless entirely of whether he even saw that writing on it! Maybe he didn’t see it at all. Maybe his eyesight is poor and he didn’t have his glasses on him.) is reason to question their knowledge of the sacraments.

That necessarily leads to the conclusion that knowledge of said sacraments is (reasonably, not necessarily perfectly) related to garb and behaviour irrespective of the reasons for said garb and behaviour. Casual garb is an indicia of lack of understanding of the sacraments. Which can only mean that garb that is NOT casual is an indicia of understanding of them.
“A gem is a gem no matter who gives it to you” would only work if there was no such criteria as “correct intention”. But, correct intention is one of the three criteria for a valid sacrament. And as I said before, if the priest treats the sacrament as a casual event, is irreverent, and doesn’t bother to wear the correct vesture, his intention can be up to questioning.
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Merely because of casual dress and holding a particular coffee cup? (Again, note that you know NOTHING about the reasons the priest may have had for doing so, and there are many perfectly innocent and valid ones at least for the dress, and at least one or two plausible explanations for the cup).

By the way - what is the ‘correct intention’? One who baptises must merely have the intention to ‘do as the Church does’ in baptising. They don’t even need to personally believe in GOD to be able to baptise!

One who absolves sins, surely, must have the intention to absolve sins in God’s name. Why on earth would casual garb indicate that the priest may not believe that he is truly absolving sins in God’s name? Does Christ’s casual (to put it mildly) garb on the cross indicate any lack of understanding or ability to efficaciously forgive on his part?

Let me put to you a case where a priest is sleeping in the middle of the day - perhaps he has a touch of flu or something. Someone knocks on the presbytery door seeking confession. Mindful of Canon Law requirement that a minister is always to hear the confessions of the faithful when they reasonably seek to be heard, the priest judges that the person is reasonably seeking, and does not delay, but hears the confession then and there, still in his pyjamas.

How on earth is this priest in any way less likely to have correct (or even different) knowledge or intent than if he would have had left the penitent waiting for who knows however long while he rummaged around for vestments and a stole?

Again, being that we do not know WHY the OP’s priest was dressed the way he was or carrying the cup he carried, we must assume that you are judging entirely by appearances, and the priest in pyjamas has no better (in fact if anything he has a worse) appearance than the OP’s.
 
Okay, I give up. I knew I shouldn’t of said anything. My original comment was that if the priest treats the sacrament so casually, almost in a joking manner (This is my “frickin” coffee cup), you never know if the priest might have not had the intention to do what the Church does. Just don’t worry about it. I just said that personally, I would find a different confessor so there is no doubt whatsoever.

I.F.
 
Did the priest absolve correctly, in the Trinitarian formula Jilian?
 
By the way LilyM, congratulations on 30,000 posts! :dancing::extrahappy:
 
ImmaculataFides said:
Okay, I give up. I knew I shouldn’t of said anything. My original comment was that if the priest treats the sacrament so casually, almost in a joking manner (This is my “frickin” coffee cup), you never know if the priest might have not had the intention to do what the Church does. Just don’t worry about it. I just said that personally, I would find a different confessor so there is no doubt whatsoever.

I.F.
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Intention.

Intention.

You’re questioning intention because a priest brought his favorite coffee cup to hear a confession.

You’re questioning intention because a priest wore casual dress to a mid-week confession.

Because of a coffee cup which contained a slogan that appears on several sweaters (my mother had one which was similar) and other coffee cups, and because he was dressed casually you doubt his intention to administer the Sacrament in a valid fashion.

Using this logic you should also need to doubt the intention of every single Sacrament administered in Latin or in an inaudible way, since you have zero idea if they are either truly intending to do it right or may not even understand the language. You’d need to doubt anyone who isn’t wearing certain clothing. You need to doubt anyone who doesn’t kneel at a certain point, say certain things, you need to doubt the intention of anyone and everyone.

Including yourself. Should we doubt your intention when without hesitation you judge this priest without even meeting him, all over mid-week casual dress and a coffee cup?

And people wonder why I try not to focus too much on the externals.
 
With all due respect, you know exactly what I meant, you just dislike what I said so you are deliberately mis-representing me to make my comments sound horrible. It’s not about “he brought his coffee cup, therefore the confession is invalid”. As I have repeated several times in this thread already; it is the manner in which the priest treated the sacrament. He obviously didn’t bother to wear the proper vesture and he unnecessarily brought his coffee mug with him. It wasn’t an emergency. It was a scheduled confession. He should be wearing the proper attire. The fact that he didn’t bother to wear the proper attire and he treated the sacrament so casually and irreverently points to the question of whether he understands the sacrament properly; which could effect intention.

I.F.
 
ImmaculataFides said:
With all due respect, you know exactly what I meant, you just dislike what I said so you are deliberately mis-representing me to make my comments sound horrible. It’s not about “he brought his coffee cup, therefore the confession is invalid”. As I have repeated several times in this thread already; it is the manner in which the priest treated the sacrament. He obviously didn’t bother to wear the proper vesture and he unnecessarily brought his coffee mug with him. It wasn’t an emergency. It was a scheduled confession. He should be wearing the proper attire. The fact that he didn’t bother to wear the proper attire and he treated the sacrament so casually and irreverently points to the question of whether he understands the sacrament properly; which could effect intention.

I.F.
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I’m not mis-representing anything, really. You’re calling into question the validity of a Sacrament administered by a priest purely based off of someone saying “he brought a coffee cup and was dressed casual”. Next thing you know you’ll be saying priests with long unkempt hair have a lack of intention as well.
 
Melchior said:
I’m not mis-representing anything, really. You’re calling into question the validity of a Sacrament administered by a priest purely based off of someone saying “he brought a coffee cup and was dressed casual”. Next thing you know you’ll be saying priests with long unkempt hair have a lack of intention as well.
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Could be. See 1 Corinthians 11:14, and also consider the association of long unkempt hair with the 1960’s counter-culture. Dress and deportment provide (fallible) indications of inner disposition.
 
MikeDunphy said:
Could be. See 1 Corinthians 11:14, and also consider the association of long unkempt hair with the 1960’s counter-culture. Dress and deportment provide (fallible) indications of inner disposition.
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My father wore very nice clothes to Mass, and took me to church every Sunday. Lets just say that was not an accurate description of the man he was.

Last I checked there were few groups that pre-date the hippies who had long hair and long beards. Whoops, there I go talking about religious orders and not relying on the externals again!
 
Sometimes when a leader in another country dies, our president will send someone else to attend the funeral in his place. If that person was to go to a funeral wearing shorts, carrying a cup of coffee and talking about his “frickin” coffee, I don’t think you would say the person is representing his president or his country very well, and in fact, if he appeared at the funeral that way, he would be booted out of the funeral and severely reprimanded for disgracing his president and his country.

When a priest hears someone’s confession, he is there in persona Christi, representing Jesus Christ. It is a most solemn sacrament, involving the forgiveness of sins and bringing the pentinent back into union with his Creator. It is far more important than a funeral of any head of state could ever be. It should be treated with utmost dignity and solemnity. The priest in question here was completely and totally inappropriate and disrespectful towards everyone involved, including Jesus. The only good thing is that as a priest, if he pronounced the correct words of absolution, the confession was still valid. Fortunately, the validity of the sacraments has nothing to do with the spiritual condition of the priest.

I know there are some people here who will never concede the point I’m making and will continue to fight and say this priest did nothing wrong, but I’m going to make it anyway.
 
Brooklyn said:
The priest in question here was completely and totally inappropriate and disrespectful towards everyone involved, including Jesus. The only good thing is that as a priest, if he pronounced the correct words of absolution, the confession was still valid. Fortunately, the validity of the sacraments has nothing to do with the spiritual condition of the priest.

I know there are some people here who will never concede the point I’m making and will continue to fight and say this priest did nothing wrong, but I’m going to make it anyway.
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And you know this how??
Where you there?
So, because some anonymous poster on the internet relays some information, from their own perspective, that gives you the right to call into question the motives and intentions of a priest? 🤷:mad:

And we wonder why we have such a lack of vocations in the US! :mad:
 
LilyM said:
Wait a sec. How about we get some context on this before we go jumping all over him because of the coffee cup.

If I grab a java to go from a cafe on the way to work I certainly don’t always inspect the cup from all possible angles for potentially offensive messages! And if someone else is kind enough to make me a cup I’m not going to refuse it simply because of the cup it comes in either.
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I would notice if the coffee cup said “This is my frickin’ coffee!” :eek: I suspect it was a gag gift, not a disposable cup, though.

Priests are holy men. Profanity is not holy.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
And you know this how??
Where you there?
So, because some anonymous poster on the internet relays some information, from their own perspective, that gives you the right to call into question the motives and intentions of a priest? 🤷:mad:

And we wonder why we have such a lack of vocations in the US! :mad:
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Sigh. I hope your blood pressure hasn’t gotten too high from your anger at me.

Interesting that you only quoted part of my post.
 
I think he said your sins are frickin forgivin. Lol j.k

No he said your forgiven in the name of the…you know the rest.

I don’t care what he was doing. I just wanted to know since I had a casual confession if that’s ok since I never had a confession like this. I think there has been not very nice intentions here. I need to go to confession now…lol:D:thumbsup::o
 
Oneofthewomen said:
And you know this how??
Where you there?
So, because some anonymous poster on the internet relays some information, from their own perspective, that gives you the right to call into question the motives and intentions of a priest? 🤷:mad:

And we wonder why we have such a lack of vocations in the US! :mad:
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Maybe the casualness contributes to the lack of vocations.

There are plenty of vocations in the traditional orders of priests – the type who wear cassocks in the street.👍🙂
 
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