Was my confession valid?

[JimG]

That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard for a long time, but yes your confession was valid.

Next time you make an appointment ask him if he could bring out a 6-pack while you make a general confession!

 

[mlz]

I was specifically talking about lawyers going to court and appearing before a judge. I was not talking about office attire. No lawyer would ever appear in court without dressing appropriately. You should know that if you have worked in law offices. Most lawyers that I know will always keep a suit in their office for appearing in court or if a client comes into the office.

A Catholic priest has a much more important vocation than any lawyer. The priest is appearing before the great God in heaven. The priest is representing Jesus Christ and he should dress appropriately. Again, the OP had made an appointment. This wasn’t a surprise in the middle of the night. There was absolutely no reason why the priest should be carrying a “fricking” cup of coffee with him either. His behavior was totally inappropriate. I find his behavior inexcusable and completely disrepectful to the office of the priesthood.

This sounds to me as if the casualness of our culture has permeated into the priesthood. I’m am a new convert and the sense of respect drew me toward the Catholic Church so this honestly bothers me some, but I make no judgement as I know neither the priest or the person going for confession. Still…I would hope for more respect as it is sorely needed these days IMHO. It is so lacking and so the witness of it by clergy is to be praised. A contrite confession is always valid regardless to a priests life. It is his Holy Orders that flow through that priest and all priests, thanks be to God!

mlz

 

[Pekita]

I agree with you. The priest wasn’t in a war zone, he wasn’t just “jogging by”, the OP made an appointment so the priest knew the OP was coming. There was no reason for the priest to be dressed like this and no reason for him to be drinking a “Fricking” cup of coffee. I work in a law office and I can tell you that if lawyers went to court wearing regular street clothes instead of a suit, the judge would throw them out of court. This priest was there in persona Christi to absolve sins, which is the greatest calling on this earth. As one priest told me, they are literally pulling people out of hell. This priest showed no respect for the great office he holds and no respect for the person who confession he was there to hear.

But all that aside, as long as he said the correct words of absolution, the OP’s sins were absolved.

Totally agree! We´re talking about a sacrament here, where the OP made an appointment. Priests have to show their dignity and respect when administrating a sacrament.

 

[LilyM]

I was specifically talking about lawyers going to court and appearing before a judge. I was not talking about office attire. No lawyer would ever appear in court without dressing appropriately. You should know that if you have worked in law offices. Most lawyers that I know will always keep a suit in their office for appearing in court or if a client comes into the office.

A Catholic priest has a much more important vocation than any lawyer. The priest is appearing before the great God in heaven. The priest is representing Jesus Christ and he should dress appropriately. Again, the OP had made an appointment. This wasn’t a surprise in the middle of the night. There was absolutely no reason why the priest should be carrying a “fricking” cup of coffee with him either. His behavior was totally inappropriate. I find his behavior inexcusable and completely disrepectful to the office of the priesthood.

This is NOT like going to court - as I said one is usually told weeks in advance when one is to appear in court.

Yes, the OP made an appointment. Which could very easily mean as much notice as rocking up to the sacristy five minutes before Mass and saying ‘Father, could you hear my confession after Mass?’ ie for practical having-time-to-groom-and-dress purposes none.

Can you seriously imagine a scenario of ‘father, I’d really like you to hear my confession, I have my lunch break in two hours.’ ‘Sorry my child, can we make it another time? I’m not properly dressed to hear confessions, and won’t have time to change between now and then’?

As you said, confession is the most important thing a priest can do. And I’d imagine for lots of people a ‘come back later’ when they feel in serious need can mean they don’t ome
back at all.

We expect priests to be on call like doctors. Not like lawyers, who are next-to-never ‘on call’. That means, like an ER doctor, sometimes you take them however they are dressed, as long as they are competent to do the job. With good grace and thankfulness rather than being miffed that they haven’t got a suit and tie on.

Having numerous doctors in the family, who all took their turns at emergency house calls, delivering babies at ungodly hours and so on, perhaps I know better than to be scandalized by dress.

 

[JillianRose]

That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard for a long time, but yes your confession was valid.

Next time you make an appointment ask him if he could bring out a 6-pack while you make a general confession!

haha !! Me too. I was not judging this Priest. I DO NOT KNOW HIM!!! I was just wondering because in the past when I go to confession, even if it is by appointment its in the church, in the confession booth. I did not know what to think. Now that I know this, next time I am not going to dress up either!! lol

 

[Brooklyn]

This is NOT like going to court - as I said one is usually told weeks in advance when one is to appear in court.

Yes, the OP made an appointment. Which could very easily mean as much notice as rocking up to the sacristy five minutes before Mass and saying ‘Father, could you hear my confession after Mass?’ ie for practical having-time-to-groom-and-dress purposes none.

Can you seriously imagine a scenario of ‘father, I’d really like you to hear my confession, I have my lunch break in two hours.’ ‘Sorry my child, can we make it another time? I’m not properly dressed to hear confessions, and won’t have time to change between now and then’?

As you said, confession is the most important thing a priest can do. And I’d imagine for lots of people a ‘come back later’ when they feel in serious need can mean they don’t ome
back at all.

We expect priests to be on call like doctors. Not like lawyers, who are next-to-never ‘on call’. That means, like an ER doctor, sometimes you take them however they are dressed, as long as they are competent to do the job. With good grace and thankfulness rather than being miffed that they haven’t got a suit and tie on.

Having numerous doctors in the family, who all took their turns at emergency house calls, delivering babies at ungodly hours and so on, perhaps I know better than to be scandalized by dress.

You have your opinion and I have mine about what constitutes respectful behavior, and we most defiintely do not agree. I’ll leave it there.

 

[JillianRose]

Ok, I made the appointment by phone a week in advance. I do not understand why some are picking apart the details. I do not know the priest. I do not attend this church. My priest at my church was not avail. My question was answered and I thank all of you so much. It was an innocent question. I just have always attended churches with older priests. That is it. You are really making a bigger deal out of a innocent question. Please do not fight. I respect and understand what you all are saying. I have never come across this way of confession before . I have always belonged to more of a traditional catholic church. It really doesn’t matter. God knows the intent.

Please note, I am hear to ask questions, not to cause problems. I want to learn more about my faith from other Catholics. I think beside prayer request I am going to stay away from asking faith/tradition questions. Everytime I post something, some one has to make it about them. I just wanted a question answered. I don’t want to get in trouble for causing this thread to turn ugly.

I am so sorry. I really meant this as an innocent question.
Thank you all for all you knowledge. I think I will just read the threads from now one.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

What I am getting from many of the respondants in this thread is that they have no respect for priests as human beings. They seem to have a “Bing Crosby” Hollywood image as to how a priest must appear.
I grew up in a Jesuit parish in Miami, Fla. during the 1940’s. My parents home became a “home away from the rectory” for the parish and visiting priests to the extent that our home phone number was kept near the rectory telephone, in case someone needed a priest in an emergency. It was not uncommon for me to come home to find Father so-and-so seated in a beach chair in our back yard with a beer, reading his newspaper…and rarely did they wear priestly garb except for possibly their black trousers.
I Clearly remember attending Mass at St. Mary’s long before it became the site of the Cathedral in Miami, and seeing tan work pants underneath the cassock of the priest.
In fact, the monthly inter-parish “probability seminar” i.e. poker game was held on my parents dining room table.
The point of all of this is that I grew up with priests being sort of adopted family members and got to know them as human beings, and definately not idols placed on pedistals. So, calm down everyone…You all have no idea what the priest was doing just before Mass, and was kind enough to accept an appointment to hear a confession. Priests are people, and in this case, Clothes do not make the man!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Don’t take all of this personally.

The priest is more casual than many of us have ever experienced - and the “frickin’” coffee cup is profane. That word is a substitute for another “f” word. That is a word that some of us feel compelled to confess when we use it! What if profanity had been one of your sins and then you sit and read his coffee cup and…

I think he could have shown a little more respect for his role. Come off the basketball court, put on a pair of jeans and a shirt with your collar, Father. And dump that coffee cup, even if someone gave it to you. It’s rude, crude, and not very seemly for a Catholic priest.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

What I am getting from many of the respondants in this thread is that they have no respect for priests as human beings. They seem to have a “Bing Crosby” Hollywood image as to how a priest must appear.
I grew up in a Jesuit parish in Miami, Fla. during the 1940’s. My parents home became a “home away from the rectory” for the parish and visiting priests to the extent that our home phone number was kept near the rectory telephone, in case someone needed a priest in an emergency. It was not uncommon for me to come home to find Father so-and-so seated in a beach chair in our back yard with a beer, reading his newspaper…and rarely did they wear priestly garb except for possibly their black trousers.
I Clearly remember attending Mass at St. Mary’s long before it became the site of the Cathedral in Miami, and seeing tan work pants underneath the cassock of the priest.
In fact, the monthly inter-parish “probability seminar” i.e. poker game was held on my parents dining room table.
The point of all of this is that I grew up with priests being sort of adopted family members and got to know them as human beings, and definately not idols placed on pedistals. So, calm down everyone…You all have no idea what the priest was doing just before Mass, and was kind enough to accept an appointment to hear a confession. Priests are people, and in this case, Clothes do not make the man!

Yeah, George, but would your parents have accepted a priest who substituted a different word for the “f” word? Had that word on a coffee cup that he was using?

 

[LilyM]

Ok, I made the appointment by phone a week in advance. I do not understand why some are picking apart the details. I do not know the priest. I do not attend this church. My priest at my church was not avail. My question was answered and I thank all of you so much. It was an innocent question. I just have always attended churches with older priests. That is it. You are really making a bigger deal out of a innocent question. Please do not fight. I respect and understand what you all are saying. I have never come across this way of confession before . I have always belonged to more of a traditional catholic church. It really doesn’t matter. God knows the intent.

Please note, I am hear to ask questions, not to cause problems. I want to learn more about my faith from other Catholics. I think beside prayer request I am going to stay away from asking faith/tradition questions. Everytime I post something, some one has to make it about them. I just wanted a question answered. I don’t want to get in trouble for causing this thread to turn ugly.

I am so sorry. I really meant this as an innocent question.
Thank you all for all you knowledge. I think I will just read the threads from now one.

Hun, don’t feel bad, please, you’ve done nothing wrong :hug: This is just one of those topics where there’s no cut and dried rule but lots of strong opinion. All part of the joy of belonging to such a huge and diverse organization.

I would be at least a little curious in your circumstances too, and perhaps even a little disappointed if he’d known of the appointment a week ahead. But we really ought in charity to not presume that the priest was being disrespectful, doesn’t care about the priesthood or anything terrible like that.

 

[JillianRose]

Don’t take all of this personally.

The priest is more casual than many of us have ever experienced - and the “frickin’” coffee cup is profane. That word is a substitute for another “f” word. That is a word that some of us feel compelled to confess when we use it! What if profanity had been one of your sins and then you sit and read his coffee cup and…

I think he could have shown a little more respect for his role. Come off the basketball court, put on a pair of jeans and a shirt with your collar, Father. And dump that coffee cup, even if someone gave it to you. It’s rude, crude, and not very seemly for a Catholic priest.

Funny you mentioned that. One of my confessions was a little bit of a potty mouth lately. I accidently said the** S** word and now my 3 year old keeps repeating it!! : I will probably not see him again. I just wanted to make sure I was ok so I could have communion this weekend… Which was great to do!! I do not like missing communion!! I also felt that I should get my little incident out of the way asap!! lol

 

[LilyM]

Yeah, George, but would your parents have accepted a priest who substituted a different word for the “f” word? Had that word on a coffee cup that he was using?

Wait a sec. How about we get some context on this before we go jumping all over him because of the coffee cup.

If I grab a java to go from a cafe on the way to work I certainly don’t always inspect the cup from all possible angles for potentially offensive messages! And if someone else is kind enough to make me a cup I’m not going to refuse it simply because of the cup it comes in either.

 

[JillianRose]

Hun, don’t feel bad, please, you’ve done nothing wrong :hug: This is just one of those topics where there’s no cut and dried rule but lots of strong opinion. All part of the joy of belonging to such a huge and diverse organization.

I would be at least a little curious in your circumstances too, and perhaps even a little disappointed if he’d known of the appointment a week ahead. But we really ought in charity to not presume that the priest was being disrespectful, doesn’t care about the priesthood or anything terrible like that.

I did not mean to insinuate he was being disrespectful. I grew up in Chicago. I went to Church in Chicago. I made all my sacraments in the Chicago Diocese. I just never seen it a Priets not in his “outfit” so to speak. Now I live in another state. He must be doing something right because his Church has the best participation with the young couples and the elderly. They love him. I bet he does this all the time. Hey, I just wanted to take communion this weekend. I don’t want to have the body of Christ with a heavy heart. I also don’t like not having it!! I think the Communion of our church is what binds us to Christ and Each other!!

God Bless all of you. And thank the Good Lord that we have the most important thing in common - CHRIST!! xo

 

[LilyM]

I did not mean to insinuate he was being disrespectful. I grew up in Chicago. I went to Church in Chicago. I made all my sacraments in the Chicago Diocese. I just never seen it a Priets not in his “outfit” so to speak. Now I live in another state. He must be doing something right because his Church has the best participation with the young couples and the elderly. They love him. I bet he does this all the time. Hey, I just wanted to take communion this weekend. I don’t want to have the body of Christ with a heavy heart. I also don’t like not having it!! I think the Communion of our church is what binds us to Christ and Each other!!

God Bless all of you. And thank the Good Lord that we have the most important thing in common - CHRIST!! xo

Amen!

I wasn’t directing everything at you - in fact it’s really only been a few other posters who have jumped straight to the worst conclusions.

One of my favourite St Francis of Assisi stories - although an incredibly holy man, he deemed himself unworthy of the honour of becoming a priest. And treated all priests with the greatest possible respect. He declared ‘if I were to meet at the same time an angel come down from heaven and the worst priest, I would first be sure to kiss the priest’s hand, out of respect for the fact that it holds the bread of life’. And this was in response to hearing gossip about a sinful priest.

So I can’t imagine what he would make of some of the derogatory things that have been said here by some!

 

[ImmaculataFides]

Hi Jillian,

Personally, I would go to confession again to a traditional priest. Judging from how that priest treated the sacrament, I think there is room for doubt in the priest’s intention required for the sacrament to be valid. It’s up to you. I would find a traditional confessor.

I.F.

 

[ClayPots47]

Hi Jillian,

Personally, I would go to confession again to a traditional priest. Judging from how that priest treated the sacrament, I think there is room for doubt in the priest’s intention required for the sacrament to be valid. It’s up to you. I would find a traditional confessor.

I.F.

And exactly how did that priest treat the sacrament? The OP gave no details. If he kept the appointment she made, was present and heard her confession, and granted absolution (which we should assume happened, unless the OP indicates otherwise, and in reply to another poster it appears she indicates that she was absolved); the sacrament was valid.

Thank you LilyM for being a voice of reason.

I worked many years in a rectory, and my guess is that priest had time off that day, and had plans for the day after the morning Mass. He probably squeezed the OP in to hear her confession, before he left for the day.

At the rectory I worked at, the priests dressed casually when not working. And sometimes they ended up doing priestly duties even though it was their day off, so were casually dressed when performing them. Here’s an example. Father P has off, but he is on call for emergencies. Father G is on duty, Father G responds to an emergency. While Father G attends to the emergency, another call comes through. Since Father G is unavailable, Father P is called, even though it’s his day off. Father P is not going to take the time to change to clerics, he’s going to go as he is.

In the parish I worked at, the assistant pastor occasionally showed up at someones deathbed in shorts, a tee, and jogging shoes, because he was out running at the time the call came through, and the pastor was the on-call priest, but was already handling a previous emergency call. The opposite has happened, with the pastor showing up in his golfing attire, because the on-call priest was the assistant, and this was a second emergency. Sometimes either priest on their day off, might squeeze in a confession or two after morning Mass, and before they leave, dressed in casual dress.

This priest celebrated the morning Mass, heard the OP’s confession, and likely left after to whatever he had planned that shorts was appropriate attire for. He was probably hearing the OP’s confession on his day off, something he really didn’t have to do, but he probably figured since he would be doing the morning Mass, it wouldn’t take much more of his time to hear a person’s confession. Priests often do overtime hours; if they show up to administer a sacrament casually dressed, assume they are seeing you while off-duty.

A law office and their dress codes and policies cannot be compared to a parish rectory and the duties of the diocesan priest living and working there.

I once attended a retreat led by a Conventual Franciscan Friar. On the last day after the final talk, he apologized that he would have to leave very shortly after, as he had a prior commitment. After he finished, he removed his habit and sandals to reveal underneath a pair of bike shorts and tee. He put on his biking shoes and headed on his way to bike race to raise funds for a charity. He had a few attendees that were scheduled to meet with him, they were the last that hadn’t been able to meet with him earlier. Some probably confessed as part of the meeting (most of us did). He was pressed for time, and literally would not have the time to change prior to the race, he completed his scheduled appointments and arrived at the event and signed in just in time to participate in the race. Some retreat attendees went to the race to cheer him on. I’m sure none of those seeing Father Bart really cared that he was dressed in bike racing attire while hearing their confession.

 

[LilyM]

Hi Jillian,

Personally, I would go to confession again to a traditional priest. Judging from how that priest treated the sacrament, I think there is room for doubt in the priest’s intention required for the sacrament to be valid. It’s up to you. I would find a traditional confessor.

I.F.

But I suppose you’d be quite happy to go to an Anglican/Episcopal priest, provided he was sufficiently impressively garbed? After all, fancy duds are such a reliable indicator of orthodoxy of belief and validity of sacraments. That must be why Rowan Williams and Katherine Jefferts-Schori get into full episopal regalia so often - mitre, crozier, robes etc.

Remember Christ perfectly validly forgave the thief from the Cross - and there’s every possibility He was totally sans clothes of any kind while doing so!

 

[ImmaculataFides]

That’s not what I was saying, and you know it. I said that the way the priest treated the sacrament of penance as described by the original poster (very irreverently and casual) brings up valid questions as to whether that priest fully understands the nature of the sacrament. If he doesn’t understand the sacrament correctly, his intention, which is required for validity, can be put into question. As I said above, I would probably find a traditional priest for confession just in case.

I.F.

 

[LilyM]

That’s not what I was saying, and you know it. I said that the way the priest treated the sacrament of penance as described by the original poster (very irreverently and casual) brings up valid questions as to whether that priest fully understands the nature of the sacrament. If he doesn’t understand the sacrament correctly, his intention, which is required for validity, can be put into question. As I said above, I would probably find a traditional priest for confession just in case.

I.F.

With all due respect, it is exactly what you were saying. That whether a person ‘fully understands’ a sacrament is related to how casually they behave when confecting it. That necessarily means the greater the solemnity of behaviour, the greater the likelihood that they understand.

Which, if it were true, would mean (as I said) that a Williams or a Jefferts-Schori is just as likely to ‘fully understand’ the sacraments as a similarly solemn Catholic bishop or Archbishop. Never mind that their solemn garb and demeanour doesn’t magically protect these Anglican/Episcopalian clerics from the fundamental delusion that their sacraments are valid.

As a child I read an extremely orthodox and wonderful catechism/guide for children - written I think some time in the early 1950s. It made a statement that is wonderfully appropriate for this debate. In the context of receiving sacraments from priests who are personally sinful, it said ‘a diamond (meaning the sacraments) is a diamond no matter whether the person who gives it to you is a jeweller (honest and just) or a thief (dishonest and sinful).’

You could easily substitute ‘jeweller’ for ‘well-dressed, impeccably-behaved priest’ and ‘thief’ for ‘casually-dressed, less formally-behaved priest’ and the point still holds. Or you could simply remember that many a thief dresses and speaks extremely well, especially when he’s trying to pass himself off as a legitimate owner/retailer of valuable gems. And that a legitimate jeweller, well aware that the gems he or she retails are sufficiently beautiful and valuable to ‘sell’ themselves, may well dress and behave more to please him or herself than the public.