Was Pope JP II a mystic?

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Is there anything that we know of him, to conclude he was a mystic?

His Fatima experiences makes me think he might have been, but I really don’t know…

How about the rest of you do you think he was a mystic?

(I moved this from the back fence, because it seems like it might get more answers on this forum…I hope I am not breaking the rules by doing this…I still don’t understand all of the ins and outs about what we are allowed to do)😊
 
Is there anything that we know of him, to conclude he was a mystic?

His Fatima experiences makes me think he might have been, but I really don’t know…

How about the rest of you do you think he was a mystic?

(I moved this from the back fence, because it seems like it might get more answers on this forum…I hope I am not breaking the rules by doing this…I still don’t understand all of the ins and outs about what we are allowed to do)😊
I think the answer lies in how you define “mystic.”
 
I don’t think I am…I am not that holy…I do my best but I know that I am not in that category…no use pretending I am:shrug:
 
he actualy grew up in brasil. then moved to australia during the 1800’s.
 
I don’t think I am…I am not that holy…I do my best but I know that I am not in that category…no use pretending I am:shrug:
There’s still time. He wasn’t born a mystic, most people aren’t.
 
I certainly don’t aspire to be one. I also don’t think it happens just because you want it to…

Mystics are a breed apart, and they suffer greatly for their faith, at times

It is a gift from God, and He choses who will be a mystic, not the mystic themselves
 
Not in the sense of an apparitionist, but in the sense of a person of deep and frequent prayer, a contemplative–yes.

We all have the capacity to be contemplative mystics in the context of our ordinary lives. Make time for prayer. Don’t feel like you have to live up to some holy card image or hagiographical script. The Holy Spirit indwells us all…and that is what makes people “mystics”.

God bless you!!! 🙂
 
I paraphrase from the old gray St. Joseph Catechism:

If a saint that you like slept on boards with no blanket, do not imitate him in this aspect. Rather, imitate his love for the poor, his many hours in prayers, his love for the Blessed Virgin. These are the attributes you must imitate, not his extreme penances.

There are many saints who did not perform extreme penances.
 
In Mystical Theology we define a Mystic as a person who has reached a level of union between the soul and the Divine where words and symbols are not longer necessary. It is a spiritual space, granted by grace, where the sould knows that it is in the presence of God and “feels” truth, without words.

St. Catherine, St. Teresa, St. John of the Cross and St. Therese, who are the Church’s Mystical Doctors teach us that a spiritual marriage takes place between the soul and the Divine. There is actually a real marriage ceremony, not an imagined one, at which the Blessed Virgin, the angels and saints are present.

The external signs of mysticism are an ability to disconnect from the present moment at any time in prayer, especially during the liturgy of the Eucharist and the liturgy of the hours. The person appears to be asleep. St. Catherine of Siena explained that you can often hear moaning coming from the person. This is consistent with some of the verses that we read in psalms about moaning before the Lord.

Pope John Paul II certainly had this ability. His chroniclers have recorded moments when he was in prayer and would lose all sense of time and forget where he was or who was with him. Often during liturgy with the public, his aid would provide a very indescernible nudge to bring him back.

Another sign of mysticism is an understanding of the faith at a level that is not available to most Christians, even to other saints. Mystics tend to see the big picture, because when they pray they step outside of time. They can see the Church from the past into the future all in the present. They can achieve a deep understanding of the faith of the Church. The problem that mystics often have is putting what they understand into words that other people will understand.

Even those these things help us, they never actually convey the fullness of what the mystic experienced, because the experience has no language. There are no words. Serious Mystical Theologians who are currently studying the writings of Pope John Paul are finding the same characteristics in his writing that were found in the writings of St. Francis, St. Catherine and The Cloud of Unknowing. They are led to conclude that in fact much of what he wrote about his life and the Church is deeper than meets the eye. For example, in his famous encyclical Ut Unum Sint he sees conections between the Catholic Church and other faiths that are not apparently obvious to most theologians or even popes before him, which are difficult for the average person to understand. Serious students of John Paul’s spirituality are finding that he had an insight into the Mystical Body that no one has ever had. This insight does not contradict Church teaching on the Mystical Body, but presents elements and details that were never mentioned before, but are nontheless consistent with our faith and the scriptures.

It is also known that the great mystics excelled in heroic charity and mercy. John Paul’s affection for the man who tried to assasinate him was one of those extraordinary acts of mercy. His passion for youth and for the Jewish people seem to reflect an extraordinary love that is deeper than that of most Christians. The studies that are in progress suggest that he literally saw God’s grace and power at work among Jews and youth.

This is verified by the fact that during his pontificate more forms of religious life were born than during any other papacy and all of these forms have attracted young people from every nation and all walks of life. These young men and women are very faithful to the Church. In the USA alone, more than 15 different religious congregations, secular institutes, associations of the faithful arose by the inspiration of John Paul II.

The ultimate sign of a mystic is intense detachment and austerity. When John Paul’s apartment was inspected and his legal papers were read after his death, it was found that he didn’t even have a bank account. As Pope he is paid a salary, may own property and may be very wealthy. Pope Benedict owns a home in Germany and has money that he has received in the past for his years as a professor and for his years as the Prefect of the Congregation of the Faith.

John Paul had no money, no personal property and very few items of clothing. He didn’t even own an automobile, or a life insurance policy. He certainly didn’t seem to notice some of the harsh criticism that was thrown his way. He was very detached from material things and public opinion.

From what we know from his autobriography is that he did spend hours communing with the Blessed Mother. We’re not sure what happened during those hours, because he does not go into detail. But those who knew him say that he only slept about three hours per night and spent most of his night in prayer.

He was also very Catholic, which is a sign of a mystic. This is not Catholic as in RC, but catholic as in universal. He literally kept lists of events in each country of the world stored in his kneeler and he would pull them out and begin to moan as he prayed over each one. He was often found on the floor of the chapel in his apartment, laying face down with his arms wide open, even after he became ill. When asked how he prayed, his answer was always the same. “I don’t know. I pray as the Holy Spirit prays.” This is consistent with the life of the mystics and with the scriptures that describe the Spirit of God groaning within us. Witnesses report that they had no idea how long he spent in this position or how many years he had done this.

Yes, there are some clear indications that he was a true mystic along the same lines of St. Francis more than any othe rmystic, being as he was very oriented toward the needs of others and very gregarious.

JR 🙂
 
Thank you JR it sounds as if he went into ecstasy when he prayed…I might be wrong but I have read the pope takes no salary at all…they go up in rank and down in pay…
 
Thank you JR it sounds as if he went into ecstasy when he prayed…I might be wrong but I have read the pope takes no salary at all…they go up in rank and down in pay…
The salary question is really up to them. Since all popes are above canon law, there is no regulation as to how they get paid. Therefore, they can claim a pay check if hey want to do so. I’m not sure what they would do with it. I can imagine someone like Pope Benedict who has a brother who is elderly taking a salary, just to provide for his brother’s retirement and care. But I can’t see what a Pope himself would do with money as all of his material needs are taken care of. As I’ve said, the fact that Benedict owns property, maybe he has to pay taxes to the German government or something. Who knows? It’s not that important in the great scheme of things.

As to the ecstasy, that’s what Mystical Theologians looking at John Paul are thinking as well.

As St. Teresa of Avila taught us, mysticism and contemplative prayer are not the same.

All saints have been great contemplatives. But not all have had mystical experiences.

The Mystical Doctors teach us not to aspire to be mystics. We should not ask for it or try to reach it. If it happens we should work with it, but the real holiness of a mystic is proven not by his experience, but by his life of charity.

For example, in writing about St. Francis of Assisi, the Church declared him The Mirror of Perfection. That is his official title in the Church. The Church believes that no one has ever been such a perfect duplicate of Christ as he was. However, the Church promotes Francis’ virtues, not his perfection in immitating Christ. That was a very special gift that Christ gave him just for him. We are not to try to achieve that. We are to try to live the virtues that Francis lived.

The same goes with other Mystics. We are not to try to be St. Teresa or St. Catherine. We are to live by their virtues and teachings. That’s why the Church declares them Doctors. This means that they have a right to teach the faith and we have an obligation to listen. But if we listen to what they say, they discourage us from trying to have these mystical experiences. They encourage us to a life of prayer, austerity, detachment, charity, obedience, trust, mercy and fidelity to our state in life.

I hope this helps.

JR 🙂
 
It does help a lot. I would never even want to be a mystic…it’s hard enough to be a good Christian…😊

I know that once in S America. they were buidling a church or some such…P JP II had nt money to give ,so he removed his Papal Ring and put it in the basket…It was really a widow’s mite
 
It does help a lot. I would never even want to be a mystic…it’s hard enough to be a good Christian…😊

I know that once in S America. they were buidling a church or some such…P JP II had nt money to give ,so he removed his Papal Ring and put it in the basket…It was really a widow’s mite
I don’t recall if Mother Teresa was in Rome or he was in India. But she was talking to him about the many hungry people that she had met in the world. About a month later she received a telephone call to pick up a car at the docks. It was John Paul’s personal car.

That’s when everyone found out that he had no money in the bank. He couldn’t even write a check.

Many people don’t know this. But the Pope does not have access to the Vatican’s money. That is not his money. He can’t even give it away. That mney belongs to the Church and as a sovereign state, the Secretary of State is the head of government in the Vatican. The Pope is the Head of State. There is a difference.

I guess giving his ring and his car was the only thing that he could do, because legally those belonged to him.

Again, we see the mystical detachment. The Fisherman’s ring is a sign of his office. To give it away, shows that he is even detached from his office.

I don’t mean detached as in not taking it seriously, but detached at a spiritual level. The office does not make the man, charity does. It takes a very holy person to understand this and to trust that with or without the Fisherman’s ring, he is still the successor of Peter. Just as Christ gave up his tunic for others to gamble over, he could give up his ring so that others could benefit and it would take nothing from the papacy and the Church. In fact, it would add to the papacy in an indirect way, because the holier the pope is, the greater the grace for the Church. We live by grace, even if the pope is imperfect in human things, as long as he is holy in matters of the soul.

JR 🙂
 
I see so much peace in his writings. And serving for so long he was able to give so much to the Church and help it to grow. I think he wanted unity most. This I have seen with the many inspirations from him and his love of the rosary. He initialized the Luminous mysteries quite an accomplishment. He brought the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary joined in many ways. He wrote poetry, and prayers, many prayers. He brought love, and was a comforter, if this is mystic then his spiritual journey was to the light, which glowed and was a beacon for all to see and understand the mysteries as each of us can be made aware of as we read what he wrote. I am just discovering his treasury of truth.
 
I see so much peace in his writings. And serving for so long he was able to give so much to the Church and help it to grow. I think he wanted unity most. This I have seen with the many inspirations from him and his love of the rosary. He initialized the Luminous mysteries quite an accomplishment. He brought the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary joined in many ways. He wrote poetry, and prayers, many prayers. He brought love, and was a comforter, if this is mystic then his spiritual journey was to the light, which glowed and was a beacon for all to see and understand the mysteries as each of us can be made aware of as we read what he wrote. I am just discovering his treasury of truth.
If you want to see John Paul’s mysticism at its best, read Crossing The Threshold of Hope. But don’t expect to understand much of it. It is so deep that it requires two or three readings to understand it.

I had to read it three times to begin to understand it and I was in grad school majoring in Mystical Theology at the time. I had professors to help me through it. I often wondered who else besides by professors who were theologians and Bishops could understand that darn thing. It took forever.

I finally began to understand when I stopped trying to to figure out what the words meant and began to ask myself “What does he see that I’m missing?” That helped a lot.

I hope you find this advice helpful in reading his writings.

JR 🙂
 
I feel so out of my depth on this forum…Everyone is so educated and I am not…I am like a country bumpkin compared to most of you:blush:

I am always glad when people post simply, I understand what they are talking about…JP II’s book is waaaay beyond me…🤷

But I am drawn to people that are mystics, and enjoy reading about them…they are such a breed apart…and can be very humble people, such as Rhoda Wise, the mystic that helped cure Mother Angelica…🙂
 
I feel so out of my depth on this forum…Everyone is so educated and I am not…I am like a country bumpkin compared to most of you:blush:

I am always glad when people post simply, I understand what they are talking about…JP II’s book is waaaay beyond me…🤷

But I am drawn to people that are mystics, and enjoy reading about them…they are such a breed apart…and can be very humble people, such as Rhoda Wise, the mystic that helped cure Mother Angelica…🙂
Don’t ever feel out of place because of your education level. It doesn’t take formal education to learn your faith, and the faith of our Church.

I make it my goal to learn as much as I can, as I can. Baby steps, that’s my motto.

Don’t ever feel like you can’t learn whatever you want. And hang around educated people, or people who know and love their faith and our Church, it rubs off a bit. 😉 😃
 
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