Was Pope JP II a mystic?

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I don’t recall if Mother Teresa was in Rome or he was in India. But she was talking to him about the many hungry people that she had met in the world. About a month later she received a telephone call to pick up a car at the docks. It was John Paul’s personal car.

That’s when everyone found out that he had no money in the bank. He couldn’t even write a check.

Many people don’t know this. But the Pope does not have access to the Vatican’s money. That is not his money. He can’t even give it away. That mney belongs to the Church and as a sovereign state, the Secretary of State is the head of government in the Vatican. The Pope is the Head of State. There is a difference.

I guess giving his ring and his car was the only thing that he could do, because legally those belonged to him.

Again, we see the mystical detachment. The Fisherman’s ring is a sign of his office. To give it away, shows that he is even detached from his office.

I don’t mean detached as in not taking it seriously, but detached at a spiritual level. The office does not make the man, charity does. It takes a very holy person to understand this and to trust that with or without the Fisherman’s ring, he is still the successor of Peter. Just as Christ gave up his tunic for others to gamble over, he could give up his ring so that others could benefit and it would take nothing from the papacy and the Church. In fact, it would add to the papacy in an indirect way, because the holier the pope is, the greater the grace for the Church. We live by grace, even if the pope is imperfect in human things, as long as he is holy in matters of the soul.

JR 🙂
I think that the Pope who gave Blessed Mother Teresa the car was Pope Paul VI.
 
I well might be wrong about this, but I think JP II’s car was a little Ford Escort , and it was sold on ebay…Some guy from Vegas bought it
 
I think that the Pope who gave Blessed Mother Teresa the car was Pope Paul VI.
Paul VI gave his tiara to the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception in DC with the condition that it be put on display and the money given to Mother Teresa.

Actually, it’s a very ugly thing. I looks like a bullet.

JR 🙂
 
I well might be wrong about this, but I think JP II’s car was a little Ford Escort , and it was sold on ebay…Some guy from Vegas bought it
I believe that’s another car, also belonging to John Paul. The car that he gave her is the official papal car.

I think that the Ford was his personal car that he purchased while he was a Cardinal. I remember this story. If I’m not mistaken, it was very old, wasn’t it?

JR 🙂
 
I believe that’s another car, also belonging to John Paul. The car that he gave her is the official papal car.

I think that the Ford was his personal car that he purchased while he was a Cardinal. I remember this story. If I’m not mistaken, it was very old, wasn’t it?

JR 🙂
I really don’t remember, but you are probably right. I do recall there was a medal of a saint in it…I can’t recall the saint’s name, but she is a patron saint of purity,if I recall correctly:thumbsup:
 
Many on CAF condemn John Paul II because they blame him personally for the abuses that some people have perpetrated on the liturgy. Others do not like his ideas on ecumenism. Then there are those who believe that he was unjust to the SSPX. Let’s not forget those who want to see him in hell because he prayed with Jews, kissed the Quran, prayed with Protestants, and invited people of all faiths to pray for peace at the Franciscan motherhouse in Assisi.

There was even one poster who hoped that John Paul II would never be canonized, because it would be one more thing that he messed up. How a Catholic can hope that a person never joins the company of the Saints is beyond my comprehension. To hope that someone is never recognized as a saint, is almost as hoping that someone never makes it to Heaven or if he does, that God keep it a secret from the Church.

All this being said, let’s look at some of this in the context of this thread. The abuses of the liturgy were not committed by John Paul. John Paul not only prayed for those who sinned against the liturgy and the faith of the Church, but he also provided the bishops with much encouragement to look into the liturgical life of their dioceses and do whatever was needed to inspire the faith of the people of God, while at the same time preserving communion with the universal Church, past and present. The Holy Father looked at this through a different pair of glasses than many of us on CAF. What many interpreted as liturgical abuse, he understood as a hunger to enter into the mystery of the liturgy. He understood that hungry people will sometimes steal instead of begging, because pride gets in the way. What we see here is John’s mysticism again. He was able to look into the soul of those who committed the abuses against the liturgical laws and regulations and see that they were not as guilty of abusing the liturgy as they were of spiritual pride, because they wanted to take something that was already good and make it better to meet their needs. John Paul focussed on addressing spiritual pride through his living witness and through is writings. He believed that coming down hard with rules would do little to heal pride. Pride could only be healed through a life of prayer, sacrifice and good example. That’s what he did. This kind of insight is only seen through the eyes of a mystic.

John Paul’s ideas on ecumenism came from a vision that was not the same as that of the rest of us. When he looked at people of faith, any faith, he saw a garden. In the centre of that garden there is a large tree which is the Catholic Church. This large tree has seven trunks, which are the apostolic churches. This is why he calls the Orthodox Churches Sister Churches. From the main trunk there are many small branches. Some are weaker and others are stronger. However, they are connected to the large tree even though the connection is very narrow. These are the ecclesial communities of the Reformation. Beneath the tree he saw the earth that nurtured the tree in its infancy. This is Judaism. Without it, the tree would not have come to life. Around the garden he sees small plants that are not part of the tree, but grow in the shade of the tree. These are other faiths that are neither Christian nor Jewish, but have some of the same elements of the Catholic Church, such as natural moral law and the desire for world peace and unity among people or justice for everyone. These include Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and others. From his mystical vantage point he can see connections that others can easily miss, because they are not visible to the average Christian, not even to saints or popes, unless they are mystics and can see the big picture of the mystical body.

JR 🙂
 
They blame him because they want to blame someone besides the people that did it ,and the bishops/cardinals that kept moving them around

We also must remember JP II was very ill when this scandal broke…he loved children and no one in their right mind would accuse him of trying to cover up someone’s sins

I have heard when the church is in error and at her darkest hr God will lift up the greatest saints…I have seen at least 2 in my lifetime Mother Teresa and JP II
 
They blame him because they want to blame someone besides the people that did it ,and the bishops/cardinals that kept moving them around

We also must remember JP II was very ill when this scandal broke…he loved children and no one in their right mind would accuse him of trying to cover up someone’s sins

I have heard when the church is in error and at her darkest hr God will lift up the greatest saints…I have seen at least 2 in my lifetime Mother Teresa and JP II
Let us remember what we have learned from John Paul II. The Church is not in error, individuals are. We can’t all be in error, nor are we guilty by association. God is not unjust.

JR 🙂
 
You are correct of course and he publicly apologized for the acts in the past that were committed by some of our erring catholics…🙂
 
Many on CAF condemn John Paul II because they blame him personally for the abuses that some people have perpetrated on the liturgy. Others do not like his ideas on ecumenism. Then there are those who believe that he was unjust to the SSPX. Let’s not forget those who want to see him in hell because he prayed with Jews, kissed the Quran, prayed with Protestants, and invited people of all faiths to pray for peace at the Franciscan motherhouse in Assisi.

There was even one poster who hoped that John Paul II would never be canonized, because it would be one more thing that he messed up. How a Catholic can hope that a person never joins the company of the Saints is beyond my comprehension. To hope that someone is never recognized as a saint, is almost as hoping that someone never makes it to Heaven or if he does, that God keep it a secret from the Church.

All this being said, let’s look at some of this in the context of this thread. The abuses of the liturgy were not committed by John Paul. John Paul not only prayed for those who sinned against the liturgy and the faith of the Church, but he also provided the bishops with much encouragement to look into the liturgical life of their dioceses and do whatever was needed to inspire the faith of the people of God, while at the same time preserving communion with the universal Church, past and present. The Holy Father looked at this through a different pair of glasses than many of us on CAF. What many interpreted as liturgical abuse, he understood as a hunger to enter into the mystery of the liturgy. He understood that hungry people will sometimes steal instead of begging, because pride gets in the way. What we see here is John’s mysticism again. He was able to look into the soul of those who committed the abuses against the liturgical laws and regulations and see that they were not as guilty of abusing the liturgy as they were of spiritual pride, because they wanted to take something that was already good and make it better to meet their needs. John Paul focussed on addressing spiritual pride through his living witness and through is writings. He believed that coming down hard with rules would do little to heal pride. Pride could only be healed through a life of prayer, sacrifice and good example. That’s what he did. This kind of insight is only seen through the eyes of a mystic.

John Paul’s ideas on ecumenism came from a vision that was not the same as that of the rest of us. When he looked at people of faith, any faith, he saw a garden. In the centre of that garden there is a large tree which is the Catholic Church. This large tree has seven trunks, which are the apostolic churches. This is why he calls the Orthodox Churches Sister Churches. From the main trunk there are many small branches. Some are weaker and others are stronger. However, they are connected to the large tree even though the connection is very narrow. These are the ecclesial communities of the Reformation. Beneath the tree he saw the earth that nurtured the tree in its infancy. This is Judaism. Without it, the tree would not have come to life. Around the garden he sees small plants that are not part of the tree, but grow in the shade of the tree. These are other faiths that are neither Christian nor Jewish, but have some of the same elements of the Catholic Church, such as natural moral law and the desire for world peace and unity among people or justice for everyone. These include Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and others. From his mystical vantage point he can see connections that others can easily miss, because they are not visible to the average Christian, not even to saints or popes, unless they are mystics and can see the big picture of the mystical body.

JR 🙂
That was a good post.
Our roots of Catholicism is in Judaism as they are the stable roots that support and make strong the entire tree.
 
John Paul focussed on addressing spiritual pride through his living witness and through is writings. He believed that coming down hard with rules would do little to heal pride. Pride could only be healed through a life of prayer, sacrifice and good example. That’s what he did. This kind of insight is only seen through the eyes of a mystic.

JR 🙂
Beautiful insight JR.

I have nothing but love and respect for this holy man, your post above shows us why we all should.
 
We’ve been blest with some awesome popes in the last couple hundred years but I think JPII was a cut above most. An incredible man.
 
Beautiful insight JR.

I have nothing but love and respect for this holy man, your post above shows us why we all should.
:amen:
He indeed is John Paul the Great. I love reading about him and reading things he wrote. I thought it was particularly touching that he lost his mother early in his life and claimed the Blessed Mother as his mother, she helped him through his whole life. After his Father and dear brother died while he was still young, he truly suffered in ways that none of us could imagine.
 
Many on CAF condemn John Paul II because they blame him personally for the abuses that some people have perpetrated on the liturgy. Others do not like his ideas on ecumenism. Then there are those who believe that he was unjust to the SSPX. Let’s not forget those who want to see him in hell because he prayed with Jews, kissed the Quran, prayed with Protestants, and invited people of all faiths to pray for peace at the Franciscan motherhouse in Assisi.

There was even one poster who hoped that John Paul II would never be canonized, because it would be one more thing that he messed up. How a Catholic can hope that a person never joins the company of the Saints is beyond my comprehension. To hope that someone is never recognized as a saint, is almost as hoping that someone never makes it to Heaven or if he does, that God keep it a secret from the Church.

All this being said, let’s look at some of this in the context of this thread. The abuses of the liturgy were not committed by John Paul. John Paul not only prayed for those who sinned against the liturgy and the faith of the Church, but he also provided the bishops with much encouragement to look into the liturgical life of their dioceses and do whatever was needed to inspire the faith of the people of God, while at the same time preserving communion with the universal Church, past and present. The Holy Father looked at this through a different pair of glasses than many of us on CAF. What many interpreted as liturgical abuse, he understood as a hunger to enter into the mystery of the liturgy. He understood that hungry people will sometimes steal instead of begging, because pride gets in the way. What we see here is John’s mysticism again. He was able to look into the soul of those who committed the abuses against the liturgical laws and regulations and see that they were not as guilty of abusing the liturgy as they were of spiritual pride, because they wanted to take something that was already good and make it better to meet their needs. John Paul focussed on addressing spiritual pride through his living witness and through is writings. He believed that coming down hard with rules would do little to heal pride. Pride could only be healed through a life of prayer, sacrifice and good example. That’s what he did. This kind of insight is only seen through the eyes of a mystic.

John Paul’s ideas on ecumenism came from a vision that was not the same as that of the rest of us. When he looked at people of faith, any faith, he saw a garden. In the centre of that garden there is a large tree which is the Catholic Church. This large tree has seven trunks, which are the apostolic churches. This is why he calls the Orthodox Churches Sister Churches. From the main trunk there are many small branches. Some are weaker and others are stronger. However, they are connected to the large tree even though the connection is very narrow. These are the ecclesial communities of the Reformation. Beneath the tree he saw the earth that nurtured the tree in its infancy. This is Judaism. Without it, the tree would not have come to life. Around the garden he sees small plants that are not part of the tree, but grow in the shade of the tree. These are other faiths that are neither Christian nor Jewish, but have some of the same elements of the Catholic Church, such as natural moral law and the desire for world peace and unity among people or justice for everyone. These include Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and others. From his mystical vantage point he can see connections that others can easily miss, because they are not visible to the average Christian, not even to saints or popes, unless they are mystics and can see the big picture of the mystical body.

JR 🙂
 
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Nancy47:
JPII was an apostate. He was not a mystic, he was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Truly amazing how many call evil, good.
 
I do not think for one second that JPII was an apostate, nor was he a “wolf in sheep’s clothing”. I believe that he had the makings of a great saint while on earth (and JR explains it quite eloquently, much better than I could), and he’s a heavy hitter for us now that he is in the Father’s House. I have faith and hope that, God willing, he will become a saint in my lifetime; he’s already on the fast track to canonization.

I am someone who believes he is fully deserving of the title John Paul the Great. Very few popes have led such holy lives and gave of their very selves to the service of God and His Church to be worthy of such magnification.

Ioannes Paulus II, ora pro nobis. :crossrc:
 
I doubt that an apostate would have been protected by Our Lady when shot at point blank range, on her feast day

I doubt that an apostate would have called down the power of the Holy Spirit and ended the godless Soviet Union’s grip on Poland

He brought down communism without a shot being fired
 
I do not think for one second that JPII was an apostate, nor was he a “wolf in sheep’s clothing”. I believe that he had the makings of a great saint while on earth (and JR explains it quite eloquently, much better than I could), and he’s a heavy hitter for us now that he is in the Father’s House. I have faith and hope that, God willing, he will become a saint in my lifetime; he’s already on the fast track to canonization.

I am one who believes he is fully deserving of the title John Paul the Great. Very few popes have led such holy lives and gave of their very selves to God and His Church to be worthy of such magnification.

Ioannes Paulus II, ora pro nobis. :crossrc:
The man was an apostate by his own words and actions. He was an idolator. He prayed with false religions and praised them, respected them in their idolatry. He was an enemy of Christ, an antichrist. He professed that Catholic’s worshipped the same God as the Muslim’s. To say such is an abomination!!! Catholic’s do not worship the same God as a Muslim. Muslim worship a false god; muslim’s deny Christ. Catholic’s worship the one true God in the Trinity.
John Paul II, May 5, 1999: “Muslims, who ‘together with us adore the one, merciful God …We believe in the same God, the one God, the living God, the God who created the world and brings His creatures to their perfection.’” (General Audience, May 5.)

Evil, the man was evil, and you call him good!!! I could continue, but they only allow 6000+ words to a post.
 
I doubt that an apostate would have been protected by Our Lady when shot at point blank range, on her feast day

I doubt that an apostate would have called down the power of the Holy Spirit and ended the godless Soviet Union’s grip on Poland

He brought down communism without a shot being fired
You say you “doubt” What I say is with 100% certainty. The man was not a friend of Christ. Does a Catholic pray with false religions? NO. Does a Catholic respect false religions? NO. Does a Catholic worship the same God as a Muslim? Absolutely NOT!!!
 
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