Was the pope a member of the Nazi Party/Hitler Youth

[rex_clinton]

hitler was ok with the catholics. it was the jews he was after. and by the way, do you have any experience with european christians? not exactly the biggest fans of the chosen people.

not that the majority of them would think of personally harming a jew. not at all. it’s just that,well, say… if someone down the street were to be laying a beating on a jew… well, they might not exactly try to step in and help. if you know what i mean.

so you can be a nazi, be faithful to the political structure of the catholic church and not love the jews all at the same time.

weird huh?

If the pope was so rooted in Nazism then why on earth would the man become a priest and be faithful to the church for over the last 55+ years! That sure is a long time to hide one’s “true” self!

This is nothing more that non-Catholics trying to discredit a great pope!

 

[Mirdath]

hitler was ok with the catholics. it was the jews he was after.

And the Roma, and the homosexuals, and the disabled, and more than a few Catholics in the mix too. Check out Maximilian Kolbe and Titus Brandsma for a couple more famous examples.

Yeah, Hitler was an altar boy growing up, professed Christianity most of his life, and is often wrongly thrown at non-believers for some reason as a poster child of modern atheism, but there comes a point when you’ve just gotta say ‘okay, this guy was a monster, he doesn’t speak for any of us’.

 

[rex_clinton]

no argument here. my point was that he is no saint but instead a skillful political operative. you don’t get to be head of an organization like the vatican by being an altar boy.

the popes have always been cynically portrayed as humble and pious when in reality, with few exceptions, the polar opposite is necessary to survive in their cut throat world.

as a matter of fact, rome, and particularly the vatican are very special places for me because it was there that i fervently adopted atheism as my belief system.

witnessing the arrogance and hypocrisy of that institution and state was all i needed to convince me that a religion is among other things, a corrupt enterprise intent on amassing capital in order to perpetuate itself and provide for the enrichment of it’s officers.

And the Roma, and the homosexuals, and the disabled, and more than a few Catholics in the mix too. Check out Maximilian Kolbe and Titus Brandsma for a couple more famous examples.

Yeah, Hitler was an altar boy growing up, professed Christianity most of his life, and is often wrongly thrown at non-believers for some reason as a poster child of modern atheism, but there comes a point when you’ve just gotta say ‘okay, this guy was a monster, he doesn’t speak for any of us’.

 

[Valke2]

And what hyprocisy did you witness in Rome? I have no doubt there are internal politics involved in acheiving the Papal seat. I also have no reason to doubt a Pope’s religious sincerity unless their actions prove otherwise.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Anyway the whole Church remained pretty silent about Hitler’s treatment of Jews because it didn’t want Hitler to start persecuting Catholics in retaliation.

**This is popular wisdom. It has every advantage except being true.

For refutation, read Rabbi David Dalin’s THE MYTH OF HITLER’S POPE.

As for Benedict XVI’s association with the Hitler Youth, EVERY male of a certain age had to be in it. He and his family always despised the Nazis.

In cany case, this was over 60 years ago. Does it really matter now.**

 

[bpbasilphx]

The pope should have done the same. He is nothing more that a falabile ex nazi who protects sex offenders and hides behind a mask.
Reply With Quote

**1. The pope was all of a teenager when the Nazis came to power. what was he supposed to do?

1. Please tive the name of three sex offenders whom Benedict XVI has protected. Be specific.**

 

[Dameedna]

A movie I once saw, called “Das Boat” (the boat), really showed me what it was like to be a German, forced to fight a war you didn’t really believe in.

War is so complex, so dreadfully, incredibly complex, and the propoganda and ignorance that pervades a country that heads to war, like Germany did is devastating.

It may sound strange, but I’d rather talk with some-one who was on the 'bad" side of WW2 than one who was on the good side. What made them do it? Most weren’t really bad people.

As one German once told my father “When you are in the middle, you cannot see from the outside in”.

Simple statement, but one I apply in my own life all the time now. When you are in the middle of something, so caught up in it, you cannot see what you are doing from the outside of your behaviour.

I keep this in mind, with every decision I make . If the Pope was in this situation, and is less likely to view the world in an insular, “being in the middle of it” way, he will be a better leader for it.

Then again, I have no idea how “true” these beliefs about the pope are. I’m talking conceptually.

 

[Dameedna]

Yeah, Hitler was an altar boy growing up, professed Christianity most of his life, and is often wrongly thrown at non-believers for some reason as a poster child of modern atheism, but there comes a point when you’ve just gotta say ‘okay, this guy was a monster, he doesn’t speak for any of us’.

Amen.

 

[LDNCatholic]

I lived in South Africa before freedom was resored. From the age of 12 I refused to belong to any movement or oranization that put this freedom in jeopardy. I truely risked my life. The pope should have done the same. He is nothing more that a falabile ex nazi who protects sex offenders and hides behind a mask.

He DID refuse to be a part of it. He DID risk his life.

You banging on about what you did serves only your own ego. You joined very recently and so far I’ve counted 4 posts detailing what a great person you are.

All written by you.

 

[Huguenot]

I do not know much about the pope.

But is it true that he was a member of the Nazi party or the Hitler youth or something.

If thats the case why would you pick a former member of the Nazi party as a pope…

He was a member of the Hitler Youth according to what I’ve heard, but never of the Nazi party ; Hitler’s Germany was a dictatorship and at a give age ALL young people HAD TO belong to the Hitler Jugend ( Hitler Youth ), it doesn’t mean that they ( necessarily ) agreed with Nazi ideology . ( the “link” between the two, I mean, saying "the Pope is a nazi, the proof is that he belonged to the Hitler Youth is one of the atheists’ favourite attacks on the Pope on French talking boards and even though I’m a Protestant I answer them just about the same as here … )

 

[ibkc]

1. The pope was all of a teenager when the Nazis came to power. what was he supposed to do?

Actually, he was only about five or six years old when the Nazis came to power.

 

[ruslan]

I lived in South Africa before freedom was resored. From the age of 12 I refused to belong to any movement or oranization that put this freedom in jeopardy. I truely risked my life. The pope should have done the same. He is nothing more that a falabile ex nazi who protects sex offenders and hides behind a mask.

Well, first and foremost Pope Benedict XVI was not and is not a Nazi. And, as I tend to remind people - if you weren’t there at the time this all happened, you have no idea what you would have done.

And, as has been pointed out many times on this thread, the Pope was in the Hitler Youth but that did not mean he agreed with Hitler. That is what all children of a certain age were made to do.

Just because a bunch of old Prussian career soldiers got caught up in this mess didn’t mean they agreed with Hitler either. Most of them did not.

There were things going on that some of us can only read about. Unfortunately, for some, they lived through that nightmare.

 

[rex_clinton]

it’s not about what you or i would or would not do. it’s about what he did and didn’t do. there were many who chose not to participate. there are few if any instances of germans being harmed for not acting as the fuehrer wished.

god’s rottweiler was and is a political beast. we may never really know what his thoughts were so long ago but judging from his life since he is a cynical manipulator of the levers of power.

take as evidence his directive to the clergy to keep secret any evidence uncovered on child abuse. and now witness his mea culpas to the public. it really is disgusting.

i can’t blame the legions of sheep who follow Shepherd One on his little publicity tour. they are only exhibiting the effects of the indoctrination that has been imposed on most of them from infancy and from which they’ve been unable or unwilling to think themselves past. but i can blame the princes of the church. they really are at heart banally evil.

Well, first and foremost Pope Benedict XVI was not and is not a Nazi. And, as I tend to remind people - if you weren’t there at the time this all happened, you have no idea what you would have done.

 

[latin_rite]

Just a technicality: not all Nazis were members of the Nazi Party.

Secondly, even if it was true, can people not change? Can they not reform? Can God not transform a person’s life?

I think you mean not all germans were members of the nazi party.
No the pope wasn’t in the nazi party. hitler youth doesn’t = nazi party member. it’s like saying boy scouts = members of the nra or republican party.

 

[water]

Some Catholic friends of my living in Vietnam had to take up their duty and went to war as Vietnamese Communist soldiers. Does this mean they are Communist?

No! the same thing with the Pope case.

 

[Zooey]

So what? Has anyone seen him goose-stepping to the strains of ‘Deutschland Über Alles’ lately?

You may not particularly care for many of Benedict’s ideas and actions these days (I know I don’t), but if you have a problem with those at least have the basic decency to argue against them directly instead of arguing against what his every word has struck out at for decades.

Thank you, Mirdath.
I appreciate you speaking up here!!

And now that we have heard from our Friendly Neighborhood Agnostic:

Your Friendly Neighborhood Methodist would like to add, that calling the pope a nazi because he was unfortunate enough to have been dragged into Hitler Youth by the German law of the time, is kinda like saying that, if you get locked out of your house, & sleep in the garage, you must be a car!

Sheesh. I think they must have a factory somewhere that turns out these AC-guys on an assembly line.

 

[patrick457]

I do not know much about the pope.

But is it true that he was a member of the Nazi party or the Hitler youth or something.

If thats the case why would you pick a former member of the Nazi party as a pope…

Yes, he was a member of the Hitler Youth, a paramilitary organization of the Nazi party. In Nazi Germany all young males were required to be a member of the Hitlerjugend after December 1939, whether they want to or not (about only 10-20% of the population escaped membership).

His being a member of the Hitler Youth has nothing to do with his Pontificate; he had no choice on the matter (membership was required even if the child’s parents are opposed).

Would you call someone a Communist just because he lived in a Communist country or joined an organization that is in cahoots with it?

Would you call ‘carrots’ ‘turnips’ just because it was stocked in the same box as turnips?

 

[LRThunder]

And something that people who criticize the Pope for being in the Hitler Youth should keep in mind:

St. Paul helped persecute the church, and St. Peter denied our Lord three times…worse things than being forced to join an organization that was required for all youth in the certain country. I wonder if the Pope’s critics will hold St. Paul and St. Peter to the same standards. Guess not.

 

[EasterJoy]

no argument here. my point was that he is no saint but instead a skillful political operative. you don’t get to be head of an organization like the vatican by being an altar boy.

the popes have always been cynically portrayed as humble and pious when in reality, with few exceptions, the polar opposite is necessary to survive in their cut throat world.

as a matter of fact, rome, and particularly the vatican are very special places for me because it was there that i fervently adopted atheism as my belief system.

witnessing the arrogance and hypocrisy of that institution and state was all i needed to convince me that a religion is among other things, a corrupt enterprise intent on amassing capital in order to perpetuate itself and provide for the enrichment of it’s officers.

Are there politics at work in the Vatican? Well, yes. Still, I somehow doubt that living in Rome was solely responsible for making you so cynical.

And something that people who criticize the Pope for being in the Hitler Youth should keep in mind:

St. Paul helped persecute the church, and St. Peter denied our Lord three times…worse things than being forced to join an organization that was required for all youth in the certain country. I wonder if the Pope’s critics will hold St. Paul and St. Peter to the same standards. Guess not.

Exactly.

 

[rex_clinton]

i’m not cynical. i’m skeptical. many people confuse the two.

Are there politics at work in the Vatican? Well, yes. Still, I somehow doubt that living in Rome was solely responsible for making you so cynical.

Exactly.