Was the reformation bound to happen ?

[roselily]

You will come to know Mary in time. I am a cradle Catholic…All I could perceive of Mary beyond being the Mother of Christ in my childhood was this presence in statue form eyes downcast in prayer…to me that image made her indifferent.

I was explaining the Eucharist one day my senior year in college…and suddenly began to talk about Mary…wtithout ever really thinking about her directly…My hail Mary’s were always directed to the Lord like they should.

I found Mary after college with Latin European Catholic missionaries…there she is companion, a presence with them as they work to bring the people to the Lord. When I experienced her at Christmas eve…it was like she was there bearing within my soul the new birth of the infant Jesus, my soul filled with much light with Mary’s help, and her joy in bearing the Cross…she makes the Cross lighter—if you believe in carrying the Cross Christ has given you.

Mary surrounds you with much peace. She can help people who have lived sinful lives know she is their mother. She then cleans them up, loves them, and gives them confidence to face the Lord …and to trust in His goodness, love, and forgiveness. That is why we also say the sinner’s best friend is Mary.

For now, consider her the Mother of Christ, honor her for that. She seeks nothing for her self but only the glory of God, but she comes when she knows you are ready…and also want to know her.

Thank you for that explaination, it was a very good and beautiful way to put it!

:angel1: Yes.
It is very very beautiful.

I believe that Most Holy Mother comes to help us to know the way to Christ, to know the way to eternal life and happiness.

Oh, She would, She would come to you when you is alone and feel lost in the world.

google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FBernadette_Soubirous&ei=IxMvTrGTIsjTiALP7twr&usg=AFQjCNGHycqqAb7VLg42-Nf1BahJyTXQtg

youtube.com/watch?v=aZIFavgLd38&feature=related
youtube.com/watch?v=d8GXfWjIyNY&feature=fvsr

 

[KathleenGee]

Amen Rose Lily…

After I came home, I wanted to experience her again…and sought her for 7 years!!! She does not want to be sought out!!

Then the day the Holy Father was shot in Rome, I got on my knees, and the confusion my soul had acquired being exposed to a false form of liberation theology, crippling my soul, after 15 minutes my soul was healed praying the rosary…and after that the Blessed Mother began in the most subtle ways to let me know she was with me as my companion in the Lord.

With Jesus in the Catholic Church, we have Blessed Mother and the Holy Angels, and the prayers of the communion of saints… As you enter into the sacred mysteries of the Mass…and it is incredible…so much to learn about the Mass…it will also help you to understand Mary in the way we Catholics do.

Once you do, you will never buy into the idea that we worship Mary. Never. but we give her our greatest respect and love…and she is our Mother in heaven…

Mama Mary…and the last thing…you will also find out she has a most subtle sense of humor!

Kathleen

 

[KathleenGee]

Getting ready to zzzzz

Thanks, Rose Lily for the links…St. Bernadette is among my most favorite saints!!!..and the other ones…the song, the miracles…

It is like the more Bernadette is here on earth for us to see, the more beautiful she becomes to us…because she is continuing to grow in the Lord.

A sister friend told me she was very close to a Jesuit priest, and they worked among the poor in Alaska. He passed on. But she felt his presence for 3 weeks, and over and over again she felt his presence saying, ‘Sylvia…Jesus is tremendous!!! Sylvia, Jesus is tremendous!’…that is what Bernadette must continue to experience and show us by growing in beauty here on earth as she lay in state.

 

[roselily]

Amen Rose Lily…

After I came home, I wanted to experience her again…and sought her for 7 years!!! She does not want to be sought out!!

Then the day the Holy Father was shot in Rome, I got on my knees, and the confusion my soul had acquired being exposed to a false form of liberation theology, crippling my soul, after 15 minutes my soul was healed praying the rosary…and after that the Blessed Mother began in the most subtle ways to let me know she was with me as my companion in the Lord.

With Jesus in the Catholic Church, we have Blessed Mother and the Holy Angels, and the prayers of the communion of saints… As you enter into the sacred mysteries of the Mass…and it is incredible…so much to learn about the Mass…it will also help you to understand Mary in the way we Catholics do.

Once you do, you will never buy into the idea that we worship Mary. Never. but we give her our greatest respect and love…and she is our Mother in heaven…

Mama Mary…and the last thing…you will also find out she has a most subtle sense of humor!

Kathleen

Sweet loving Kathleen.

 

[roselily]

Getting ready to zzzzz

Thanks, Rose Lily for the links…St. Bernadette is among my most favorite saints!!!..and the other ones…the song, the miracles…

It is like the more Bernadette is here on earth for us to see, the more beautiful she becomes to us…because she is continuing to grow in the Lord.

A sister friend told me she was very close to a Jesuit priest, and they worked among the poor in Alaska. He passed on. But she felt his presence for 3 weeks, and over and over again she felt his presence saying, ‘Sylvia…Jesus is tremendous!!! Sylvia, Jesus is tremendous!’…that is what Bernadette must continue to experience and show us by growing in beauty here on earth as she lay in state.

Kathleen!..

Oh! One day the earth will not be the same?

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2Q.HTM

Sweet loving Kathleen.

It is the most earnest among the adherents their souls beautiful with a beauty not of earth,

 

[KathleenGee]

Rose Lily…

Thanks so much for the link…the Risen Lord is already at work in the Eucharist drawing us up to Him…

He is drawing all mankind up to Him now…and mankind is offered to the Lord every hour of the day at every Mass.

God bless you for the love you are open to, given you by Him…if only more souls would be open to the rays of His Divine Light and Love like you.

 

[hn160]

You will come to know Mary in time. I am a cradle Catholic…All I could perceive of Mary beyond being the Mother of Christ in my childhood was this presence in statue form eyes downcast in prayer…to me that image made her indifferent.

I was explaining the Eucharist one day my senior year in college…and suddenly began to talk about Mary…wtithout ever really thinking about her directly…My hail Mary’s were always directed to the Lord like they should.

I found Mary after college with Latin European Catholic missionaries…there she is companion, a presence with them as they work to bring the people to the Lord. When I experienced her at Christmas eve…it was like she was there bearing within my soul the new birth of the infant Jesus, my soul filled with much light with Mary’s help, and her joy in bearing the Cross…she makes the Cross lighter—if you believe in carrying the Cross Christ has given you.

Mary surrounds you with much peace. She can help people who have lived sinful lives know she is their mother. She then cleans them up, loves them, and gives them confidence to face the Lord …and to trust in His goodness, love, and forgiveness. That is why we also say the sinner’s best friend is Mary.

For now, consider her the Mother of Christ, honor her for that. She seeks nothing for her self but only the glory of God, but she comes when she knows you are ready…and also want to know her.

I don’t doubt your sincerity about your belief in Mary and how she can intercede, but to Lutherans it borders on idolatry. We don’t doubt that she and the others in Heaven pray for us but I have my doubts that they in Heaven can hear us except for Christ, God and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Nicea325]

I don’t doubt your sincerity about your belief in Mary and how she can intercede, but to Lutherans it borders on idolatry. We don’t doubt that she and the others in Heaven pray for us but I have my doubts that they in Heaven can hear us except for Christ, God and the Holy Spirit.

Really? Did not Jesus say Heaven is not for the dead,but the living? So does that mean people are deaf?

 

[hn160]

Really? Did not Jesus say Heaven is not for the dead,but the living? So does that mean people are deaf?

Do you really think that they know the conditions here on earth, if they do then instead of bliss then it must be hell for them.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Do you really think that they know the conditions here on earth, if they do then instead of bliss then it must be hell for them.

I recommend you read a book by the Anglican C. S. Lewis called “The Great Divorce” which gives you an excellent idea of why those in heaven cannot be ‘overcome’ by hell.

I’ll ask you, if people are in heaven, doesn’t Scripture say that they are joined to Christ? Well, if Christ can see and hear us in Heaven, how can those who are fully and completely joined to Him NOT see and hear us from heaven as well?

 

[hn160]

I recommend you read a book by the Anglican C. S. Lewis called “The Great Divorce” which gives you an excellent idea of why those in heaven cannot be ‘overcome’ by hell.

I’ll ask you, if people are in heaven, doesn’t Scripture say that they are joined to Christ? Well, if Christ can see and hear us in Heaven, how can those who are fully and completely joined to Him NOT see and hear us from heaven as well?

I guess the only way we can end the argument, we will find out when we get there as to who is right.

 

[KathleenGee]

Mary is our companion, a fellow believer and follower of Christ. That does not place her as an idol.

The Church has known her intercession beginning with the early Christian persecution.

 

[Nicea325]

Do you really think that they know the conditions here on earth, if they do then instead of bliss then it must be hell for them.

And why would one in Heaven be totally oblivious to things here on earth?

 

[KathleenGee]

Scripture says heaven watches us with a 1,000 eyes…

When we physically die, we keep on going…we go where our hearts desire.

What we are experiencing is the communion of saints. We aren’t, but they pray and intercede on our behalf. As Mary’s soul magnified the Lord, likewise, her prayers for us are magnified before the Lord.

One time I experienced Mary in my room during a time of pondering, and wondering what direction to take in life. It was like being outside in the winter sun, the air so clean and pure, everything white with snow…these kinds of mornings are seldom experienced in this region. It was the purity of her presence…so pure and clean it made me think of being out in the snow on a most peaceful and beautiful winter morning.

 

[rinnie]

Do you really think that they know the conditions here on earth, if they do then instead of bliss then it must be hell for them.

I used to wonder about this, But here is how I came to my understanding of it all.

In this world I believe we can ALL agree on this one, we all SUFFER one way or another. And we cannot all UNDERSTAND what was the REASON for this suffereing and what GOOD did come out of it.

But if you truly believe in God, you know he has his reasons.

Now the difference and getting back to your question is they KNOW WHY, simply because they can ask God and find out the answer right now.

So while they can see what the suffereing makes us become they do not see it as suffering at all, they see it as us just walking on our path on our way to God the same as they themselves did.

 

[JonNC]

Do you really think that they know the conditions here on earth, if they do then instead of bliss then it must be hell for them.

You know, hn, I have pondered this question for quite a while now, and while I still see no command, promise, or example tied to invocation, I think about the following:

First, a verse from one of my favorite hymns, “The Church’s One Foundation” by Samuel Stone, an Anglican;
Though with a scornful wonder
we see her sore oppressed,
by schisms rent asunder,
by heresies distressed,
**yet saints their watch are keeping;
their cry goes up, “How long?” **
And soon the night of weeping
shall be the morn of song.

Secondly, from Luke 15:7, Christ’s words,
“Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.”

So, I’m not at all certain that the Church Triumphant does not have some sense of the conditions here on earth, at least in a general way, just as we know they pray for us in a general way. As I said, even this doesn’t prove a command, promise, or example for invocation, but it does imply that they have some awareness, that they pray for us, and so it seems appropriate for us to ask God to listen to their prayers.

What do you think?

Jon

 

[KathleenGee]

Jon,

Thought provoking post…again, do Lutherans believe in the communion of saints?..we believe they pray for us…that they can see God…and are in communion with Him in heaven where there is no pain…I would think such bliss would kindle their desires to pray for us here on earth.

 

[JonNC]

Jon,

Thought provoking post…again, do Lutherans believe in the communion of saints?..we believe they pray for us…that they can see God…and are in communion with Him in heaven where there is no pain…I would think such bliss would kindle their desires to pray for us here on earth.

Yes to all. Remember, however, that we believe that they pray for us in a general way. And since, as the confessions say, there is no command, promise, or example of invocation in scripture, including the Deutero’s, we can’t know if they can hear or respond to our individual prayers (requests) for intercession. But God can. He can respond to our prayers and theirs. So, in keeping with this Lutheran line of thought, we can ask God to hear and respond to their prayers for the Church Militant.

By the way, All Saints’ Day is one of my favorite holydays of the Church.

Jon

 

[KathleenGee]

Thanks, Jon!

I would say the saints in heaven are well aware of our sufferings here on earth, and at the same time, they are living out the Beatific Vision.

I think alot of the devout, once leaving this world, on no uncertain terms want to come back, unless they have some unfinished business…near death experiences and so on.