Was the universe really created in time?

[Rubia]

Since the cosmos is space and time and created then time itself had a beginning. But surely time cannot be created in time? What was created in time? The universe or time-space? What is the binding catholic dogma or doctrine on time and creation?

 

[balto]

I don’t know that there is any binding Catholic dogma on the matter, but no, the universe was not created in time. Creation is not a process that happens in time because it does not involve a change. There is no such thing as a state of “being non-existent” that becomes actualized by God. It’s simply the case that all that is real is ultimately actualized by God, so there is no need for a change in God. In order to understand this you have to have a proper understanding of God as the ultimate sustaining cause of all that exists. He is not simply one agent in a causal series of agents that just happens to be the first one in the series that “made up His mind one day” to create the universe.

Does this imply that the universe has an infinite past duration? Not necessarily, although it doesn’t preclude that either. A past-finite universe is still consistent with the timeless, unchanging creative action of God since at every moment of the universe’s finite existence it is ultimately dependent on God as the source of all being.

 

[Bahman]

Since the cosmos is space and time and created then time itself had a beginning. But surely time cannot be created in time? What was created in time? The universe or time-space? What is the binding catholic dogma or doctrine on time and creation?

That is a good question. In simple word any dynamical system, creation for example, can be explained using the very concept time yet there does not exist anything which can explain the dynamic of creation of time.

 

[Bookcat]

All creation …by definition is created…including the aspect of “time”.

 

[Bahman]

Other physicists say space is not basic, but time is. In 2004, after winning the Nobel Prize in physics, David Gross expressed this viewpoint: “Everyone in string theory is convinced…that spacetime is doomed. But we don’t know what it’s replaced by. We have an enormous amount of evidence that space is doomed. We even have examples, mathematically well-defined examples, where space is an emergent concept…. But in my opinion the tough problem that has not yet been faced up to at all is, “How do we imagine a dynamical theory of physics in which time is emergent?” …All the examples we have do not have an emergent time. They have emergent space but not time. It is very hard for me to imagine a formulation of physics without time as a primary concept because physics is typically thought of as predicting the future given the past. We have unitary time evolution. How could we have a theory of physics where we start with something in which time is never mentioned?”

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Other physicists say space is not basic, but time is. In 2004, after winning the Nobel Prize in physics, David Gross expressed this viewpoint: “Everyone in string theory is convinced…that spacetime is doomed. But we don’t know what it’s replaced by. We have an enormous amount of evidence that space is doomed. We even have examples, mathematically well-defined examples, where space is an emergent concept…. But in my opinion the tough problem that has not yet been faced up to at all is, “How do we imagine a dynamical theory of physics in which time is emergent?” …All the examples we have do not have an emergent time. They have emergent space but not time. It is very hard for me to imagine a formulation of physics without time as a primary concept because physics is typically thought of as predicting the future given the past. We have unitary time evolution. How could we have a theory of physics where we start with something in which time is never mentioned?”

But you see, we didn’t start with physics. We started with God and he created time, space, and the whole universe together, all at once. The trouble with these scientific egg heads is just that, they are egg heads.

Linus2nd

 

[Bahman]

But you see, we didn’t start with physics. We started with God and he created time, space, and the whole universe together, all at once. The trouble with these scientific egg heads is just that, they are egg heads.

Linus2nd

The problem is that timeless God also does not resolve the paradox of beginning of time.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

The problem is that timeless God also does not resolve the paradox of beginning of time.

The only paradox is that there is Bahman thought and then there is everyone else’s thought.

Or is there just a failure to communicate?

Linus2nd

 

[Bahman]

The only paradox is that there is Bahman thought and then there is everyone else’s thought.

Or is there just a failure to communicate?

Linus2nd

Does act deal with a change? Yes. That means that you need time for any act hence timeless God cannot perform the act of creation since it needs time to create which is paradoxical.

 

[Bookcat]

Does act deal with a change? Yes. That means that you need time for any act hence timeless God cannot perform the act of creation since it needs time to create which is paradoxical.

Because your trying talk about God ~ as if God were a creature in time.

God does not need time to create - time is part of creation. With the first “let there be…” begins creation …including time…

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Because your trying talk about God ~ as if God were a creature in time.

God does not need time to create - time is part of creation. With the first “let there be…” begins creation …including time…

He has a " thing " about having the last word. He seems to get a kick out of that, heaven knows why.

Linus2nd

 

[Bahman]

Because your trying talk about God ~ as if God were a creature in time.

God does not need time to create - time is part of creation. With the first “let there be…” begins creation …including time…

All I am saying is that any action requires a before and an after, hence time. Your God can safely stay in timeless state.

 

[GaryTaylor]

All I am saying is that any action requires a before and an after, hence time. Your God can safely stay in timeless state.

Amen,

Lets think about this…

Since the cosmos is space and time and created then time itself had a beginning

Right

But surely time cannot be created in time?

Time wasn’t created twice. Are we saying there is a point where creation existed and time didn’t? I think I’m missing the observational consequence?

Time must have a beginning, if the general theory of relativity is correct also.

 

[Bahman]

Amen,

Lets think about this…

Right

Time wasn’t created twice. Are we saying there is a point where creation existed and time didn’t? I think I’m missing the observational consequence?

Time must have a beginning, if the general theory of relativity is correct also.

That is the paradox my friend. A timeless God needs time to create anything since that is required for any action. An action define a before and after, simple.

 

[GaryTaylor]

That is the paradox my friend. A timeless God needs time to create anything since that is required for any action. An action define a before and after, simple.

Simple, and from hence came the interconnected consciousness? When “spirits” came into existence, that was in or out of time, or do the laws of time apply to them to what degree. What will everyone do when time no longer exists, or would you say time is required to exist?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Bahman, a professor up at the University of CT-UConn has been working on time travel.

Professor Ronald L. Mallett received his B.S., M.S. and Ph.D. in physics from the Pennsylvania State University. He worked for United Technologies from 1973-5, and in 1975 joined the physics faculty at the University of Connecticut in Storrs where he is currently Research Professor and Physics Professor Emeritus. Professor. Mallett has published numerous papers on black holes and cosmology in professional journals. His breakthrough research on time travel has been featured extensively in the media around the world, including print media such as New Scientist, the Village Voice, the Boston Globe, Rolling Stone magazine and The Wall Street Journal, and broadcast media such as NPR’s This American Life, the History Channel, the National Geographic Channel, the Science Channel, ABC’s Good Morning America and NBC’s Today Show.

Professor Mallett’s recently published memoir “Time Traveler: A Scientist’s Personal Mission to Make Time Travel a Reality” has been translated into Korean, Chinese, and Japanese. Award-winning filmmaker Spike Lee has written a script for a feature film of the memoir.

academicminute.org/2015/02/ron-mallett-uconn-theories-of-time-travel/

His theory, and in the lab is indeed plausible. He said lately he is ten years away.

We can go back to the limits of time and inquire about the purpose of mans existence in the universe.

 

[Bahman]

Simple, and from hence came the interconnected consciousness?

You can do everything once you get time. The problem is how to get time.

When “spirits” came into existence, that was in or out of time, or do the laws of time apply to them to what degree. What will everyone do when time no longer exists, or would you say time is required to exist?

You don’t need time neither experience to be. You are simply consciousness.

 

[Bookcat]

That is the paradox my friend. A timeless God needs time to create anything since that is required for any action. An action define a before and after, simple.

Again your trying to make God into a creature in time…

You keep repeating this way of thinking…

Doing so is starting with a false premise and thus hitting a wall.

Trying to figure out a car from knowing only a Bicycle – and continuing not to accept that that car is not a bicycle. Asking again and again - how do you make the peddles go round and round?

 

[rstrats]

Bookcat,

re: “Again your trying to make God into a creature in time…”

And you are trying to make Him into a creature that is somehow out of time.

 

[Bookcat]

Bookcat,

re: “Again your trying to make God into a creature in time…”

And you are trying to make Him into a creature that is somehow out of time.

a NO.

where?

Rather God is God.

Not a creature.

And yes God is outside of time.