Was there ever a "first" God of the LDS church?

[jane_doe]

He was not my pastor.

My mistake, sorry,

I didn’t even know what the Church of the Nazarene was

And rather than take the opportunity to tell you what his church was, he prioritized insulting another church? That’s just sad… and what’s sadder is this case is FAR from unique.

My boss told me he told someone, maybe his bishop, about it and this is what they said to do. He is no longer Mormon, neither are his ex-wife and kids. We were all fairly young and doing what we thought was right at the time.

It is good to do what we believe is right, even if we are young & stupid at the time. It is also good to learn and grow, so that in the future we may do what is more right and less stupid.

I don’t need to stereotype Mormons. I live in Utah and could curl your hair with things that have been said or done to my family and people I know because we are Catholic. Talk about stereotyping!!! I have chosen to remain friendly and open because I believe we are all on a faith journey doing the best we can.

Here’s another example. One of our (now ex-)Mormon friends gave my Jewish husband the book Hitler’s Pope. Really? That book has been debunked and the author has apologized for writing it. It goes both ways.

Yes, wrongs are committed in every group. We ALL should learn and be less stupid.

 

[lax16]

And rather than take the opportunity to tell you what his church was, he prioritized insulting another church? That’s just sad… and what’s sadder is this case is FAR from unique.

Oh, he was an equal opportunity offender. He hated Catholics too.

 

[jane_doe]

Oh, he was an equal opportunity offender. He hated Catholics too.

sigh People are so blinded sometimes…

 

[lax16]

sigh People are so blinded sometimes…

However, you must remember the Mormon church is built on the premise that the Catholic Church is wrong and must convince its members that this is true. Therefore, there is much written over the years to paint the wrong picture of the Catholic Church by the Mormon Church and many of its members.

The Catholic Church does not need to bash on the Mormons. They have a right to defend themselves and have done a very good job, especially lately, debunking myths that have been propagated by Mormons for a long time.

 

[jane_doe]

However, you must remember the Mormon church is built on the premise that the Catholic Church is wrong

Come on Lax, let’s not do this dance for the 400th time.

Yes, LDS claims that it’s right and all other faiths are wrong.
Yes, Catholicism claims that it’s right and all other faiths are wrong.
Yes, Orthodox claims that it’s right and all other faiths are wrong.
Yes, Judaism claims that it’s right and all other faiths are wrong.
Yes, Islam claims that it’s right and all other faiths are wrong.
Yes, Baptist claims that it’s right and all other faiths are wrong.

etc etc etc. This is established and let’s not belabor it for the millionth time.

The Catholic Church does not need to bash on the Mormons. They have a right to defend themselves and have done a very good job, especially lately, debunking myths that have been propagated by Mormons for a long time.

I refuse to indulge and I-bash-because-he-bashed-first discussions. To quote the wise Ghandi: “an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind”.

It doesn’t matter if some one else based you first: every individual person is responsible for conducting themselves in a respectful non-bashing manner, ESPECIALLY disciples of Christ.

 

[lax16]

Come on Lax, let’s not do this dance for the 400th time.

Yes, LDS claims that it’s right and all other faiths are wrong.
Yes, Catholicism claims that it’s right and all other faiths are wrong.
Yes, Orthodox claims that it’s right and all other faiths are wrong.
Yes, Judaism claims that it’s right and all other faiths are wrong.
Yes, Islam claims that it’s right and all other faiths are wrong.
Yes, Baptist claims that it’s right and all other faiths are wrong.

etc etc etc. This is established and let’s not belabor it for the millionth time.

I will do it for the billionth time as long as there are LDS missionaries trying to convert people by proselytizing. Do Jews and Orthodox do this? No.

The other ones you mentioned, yes. And guess why? Because they are trying to make themselves legitimate by bashing on the The Original Church that is a fulfillment of Judaism.

I refuse to indulge and I-bash-because-he-bashed-first discussions. To quote the wise Ghandi: “an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind”.

It doesn’t matter if some one else based you first: every individual person is responsible for conducting themselves in a respectful non-bashing manner, ESPECIALLY disciples of Christ.

What?

Defending oneself from predatory LDS missionaries and false teachings from the LDS church is not bashing.

 

[jane_doe]

Defending oneself from predatory LDS missionaries and false teachings from the LDS church is not bashing.

Exhibit A: use of the word “predatory” is totally bashing.

Sigh… looks like this conversation has degenerated…

 

[lax16]

Exhibit A: use of the word “predatory” is totally bashing.

Sigh… looks like this conversation has degenerated…

Missionaries knocking on doors is not predatory? What would you call it then?

 

[Stephen168]

However, you must remember the Mormon church is built on the premise that the Catholic Church is wrong and must convince its members that this is true. Therefore, there is much written over the years to paint the wrong picture of the Catholic Church by the Mormon Church and many of its members.

The Catholic Church does not need to bash on the Mormons. They have a right to defend themselves and have done a very good job, especially lately, debunking myths that have been propagated by Mormons for a long time.

Exactly! Mormonism believes they are a restoration which requires an apostasy. Catholicism does not believe they are a restoration therefore, it does not require an apostasy.

While the facts tell us the Mormon Church is more of an invention than a restoration (like the invented belief that god was once a man), they require the Catholic Church to be wrong (apostate).

 

[jane_doe]

Missionaries knocking on doors is not predatory? What would you call it then?

Following Jesus (Matt 28:19). And yes, I realize that you don’t appreciate the methodology or missionaries in general, but that’s a side effect of living a nation where people have the freedom of religion and speech.

In contrast, a predator would do something like show up at your door, kidnap you, and then beat you to death. Not smile, ask you if you’d like to hear about Jesus, and then politely leave when you say “no thank you”.

Now, in the spirit of non-bashing myself I think this conversation is about done.

 

[DCNBILL]

Come on Lax, let’s not do this dance for the 400th time.

Yes, Catholicism claims that it’s right and all other faiths are wrong.

This is not correct, the Catholic faith teaches that it represents the Church that Jesus the Christ started and has remained as it’s Head.

What the Church says about the truth, yes the truth in other religions can be found in the document from the Vatican II Council document Nostra Aetate found here.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

 

[lax16]

Following Jesus (Matt 28:19). And yes, I realize that you don’t appreciate the methodology or missionaries in general, but that’s a side effect of living a nation where people have the freedom of religion and speech.

Now, in the spirit of non-bashing myself I think this conversation is about done.

Here we go again. You claim that there should be dialogue between two different religious groups and yet claim it is bashing.

You have made my point yet again. Agree with me as a Mormon or you are a basher.

 

[jane_doe]

Here we go again. You claim that there should be dialogue between two different religious groups and yet claim it is bashing.

You have made my point yet again. Agree with me as a Mormon or you are a basher.

Use of the word “predator” is 100% bashing. A predator would do something like show up at your door, kick it down, kidnap you out of bed, drag you off to some dark alley, and then beat you to death.

In contrast a LDS missionary knocks, smiles, asks you if you’d like to hear about Jesus, and then politely leaves when you say “no thank you”.

I’m sorry if you cannot see the huge difference between the two.

 

[Horton]

He was not my pastor. I have always been a practicing Catholic. I can’t speak for what Protestant youth ministers do, however I know that at the time I didn’t even know what the Church of the Nazarene was and had just met my first Mormons a few years earlier.

My boss told me he told someone, maybe his bishop, about it and this is what they said to do. He is no longer Mormon, neither are his ex-wife and kids. We were all fairly young and doing what we thought was right at the time.

I don’t need to stereotype Mormons. I live in Utah and could curl your hair with things that have been said or done to my family and people I know because we are Catholic. Talk about stereotyping!!! I have chosen to remain friendly and open because I believe we are all on a faith journey doing the best we can.

Here’s another example. One of our (now ex-)Mormon friends gave my Jewish husband the book Hitler’s Pope. Really? That book has been debunked and the author has apologized for writing it. It goes both ways.

I know how you feel lax. I lived in Utah while in collage and then in another predominantly LDS community after collage. I had trouble with a boss over the fact that I was openly Catholic while he was LDS. (In all fairness I’ve had LDS bosses where religion was never an issue) The one boss ordered my work schedule changed so I could not attend a couple of bible study groups during the week in the evenings. So I took a long sabbatical and eventually retired. I guess he didn’t believe this Catholic female could out think & out maneuver the powerful LDS boss man. Not only did he loose all my expertise, which was extensive, he had no one in the facility who knew my job.

When I was in the process of converting I had a conversation with a co-worker at lunch time about what I was doing. She asked and I answered. Another co-worker who was LDS asked if I had considered the LDS church when seeking one. I answered no and explained why. He nearly came unhinged at the idea someone wouldn’t even consider the LDS church. I calmly explained I was a Christian and no matter what church I went to it had to be a Christian Church. He ranted at me for several minutes, telling me he would “prove” the LDS church was the one true church. I just left the room and went back to my office. I stayed out of the break room after that.

So Jane do we “stereotype” the LDS based on a couple of examples? For most of us it’s no, we make a determination of typical behavior based on a lot of examples.

 

[lax16]

Use of the word “predator” is 100% bashing. A predator would do something like show up at your door, kick it down, kidnap you out of bed, drag you off to some dark alley, and then beat you to death.

In contrast a LDS missionary knocks, smiles, asks you if you’d like to hear about Jesus, and then politely leaves when you say “no thank you”.

I’m sorry if you cannot see the huge difference between the two.

Do you think proselytizing can be thought of as predatory?

 

[jane_doe]

Do you think proselytizing can be thought of as predatory?

If a person kicks in your door, kidnaps you, and then threatens your life over the matter. Then sure.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Do you think proselytizing can be thought of as predatory?

If any church published something similar to The Preach My Gospel manual concerning the LDS church using words like corrupted, unauthorized, distorted, spiritual darkness Jane would be all over it, but in the LDS church’s case inflammatory language is good.

 

[Horton]

If any church published something similar to The Preach My Gospel manual concerning the LDS church using words like corrupted, unauthorized, distorted, spiritual darkness Jane would be all over it, but in the LDS church’s case inflammatory language is good.

And again we see the double standard. The LDS teach ALL other religions are false, often using anti type language but when non-LDS say anything negative about the LDS they are “bashing”.

 

[gazelam]

Thank you for this information. However, it does not jive with my real-life experiences with Mormons. About twenty years ago, I had a part-time job working for a Mormon guy and I knew very little about Mormonism.

I told him I was given a book by someone called The God Makers and did he know anything about it. He warned me that if I read that book he would fire me. I thought he was kidding but he wasn’t.

I have been called “anti” on these Mormon threads numerous times if I post anything they deemed negative. One time, I quoted BY and was called “anti”.

Have you ever read anything that would be considered anti-Mormon?

I’m sorry you had an unpleasant experience with a former LDS employer. I don’t believe he treated you appropriately. I can’t say I’ve sought out any serious anti-Mormon literature (i.e., Fawn Brodie). I do have “The Apostasy that Wasn’t” on my shelf, but haven’t started reading it yet. I have watched a very few anti videos referenced in this forum. I have enjoyed occasionally listening to youtube debates between Martin Tanner and Jim Wallace and between Martin Tanner and James White, FWIW.

 

[superwimp]

I know how you feel lax. I lived in Utah while in collage and then in another predominantly LDS community after collage. I had trouble with a boss over the fact that I was openly Catholic while he was LDS. (In all fairness I’ve had LDS bosses where religion was never an issue) The one boss ordered my work schedule changed so I could not attend a couple of bible study groups during the week in the evenings. So I took a long sabbatical and eventually retired. I guess he didn’t believe this Catholic female could out think & out maneuver the powerful LDS boss man. Not only did he loose all my expertise, which was extensive, he had no one in the facility who knew my job.

.

I had a similar experience with regards to bible studies. This was back in 1972, Jesus Christ Superstar was a hit and the US was undergoing a Jesus movement. I was in the army in Colorado and I started skiing with Mormons, had the discussions and became LDS. A few days later I met a Jesus person and I was "saved". I started attending bible studies on base. I invited the soldier who was most influential in me becoming LDS to come to a meeting. He went once and told me I know more than the person conducting the meeting because I was LDS. I continued to attend and he told someone in the church. This one guy apparently felt he had some authority over me and told me not to attend any more. I told him I would continue with the bible studies and soon got involved in helping to save others. There is a chapter in the BOM where a king is giving a sermon and everyone gets what the Pentecostals call "slain in the spirit". I read a part of it at an LDS meeting.