Was today a Holy day of obligation?

[7_Sorrows]

I know you’re a convert, so “always” for you only goes back so far.

It was actually celebrated on Thursday in all the dioceses of the U.S. up until the late 90’s. At that point, it was up to each ecclesiastical province (i.e. an archdiocese and the dioceses attached to them) to decide for themselves whether or not to transfer the feast to Sunday. Most places opted to transfer it to the following Sunday, but some did not.

You are correct Joe, my life as a Catholic only goes back so far. I was going to ask when it changed, but you answered that already. . I had one more question though.
Did the Diocese have to choose at that time or could some have changed later?

I wish all Holy Days could be moved to Sunday because unless you live in a community
with many churches that offer many different Mass times it is hard to make it.
I do remember seeing Ascension associated with Thursday, but that could just have been in Scriptural readings.

 

[Joe_5859]

You are correct Joe, my life as a Catholic only goes back so far. I was going to ask when it changed, but you answered that already. . I had one more question though.
Did the Diocese have to choose at that time or could some have changed later?

I wish all Holy Days could be moved to Sunday because unless you live in a community
with many churches that offer many different Mass times it is hard to make it.
I do remember seeing Ascension associated with Thursday, but that could just have been in Scriptural readings.

I imagine that they could still do so. I know, even when the change was made, it was rolled out in different places in different years. I think some made the switch in 1998 while others did so in 1999.

It is funny that even in places where the feast has been transferred, people still call it “Ascension Thursday.” Growing up in the 80’s, that’s what everyone called it then (and I’m sure they did so in the decades before I was born). And so, even with it being celebrated on Sunday, some people still call it Ascension Thursday. Old habits die hard.

It is more difficult to get to Mass on those days in those areas where Catholic Churches are fewer and further between. I wouldn’t be surprised to see more feasts transferred as the number of priests continues to decline and more parishes close.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I imagine that they could still do so. I know, even when the change was made, it was rolled out in different places in different years. I think some made the switch in 1998 while others did so in 1999.

It is funny that even in places where the feast has been transferred, people still call it “Ascension Thursday.” Growing up in the 80’s, that’s what everyone called it then (and I’m sure they did so in the decades before I was born). And so, even with it being celebrated on Sunday, some people still call it Ascension Thursday. Old habits die hard.

It is more difficult to get to Mass on those days in those areas where Catholic Churches are fewer and further between. I wouldn’t be surprised to see more feasts transferred as the number of priests continues to decline and more parishes close.

u

Well I started looking into Catholicism in the mid to late 90’s, so I am sure I learned of it
there. I don’t know when our Diocese moved it to Sunday.
I am not sure if the Episcopal church has Ascension Thursday or not. Maybe I remember it from the short time I went back there before joining the Catholic church.
Back East they probably have more churches and can offer more Mass times on
Thursdays so people have more opportunities to go. I was surprised Nebraska had not changed, but maybe they like the tradition of Ascension Thursday.

 

[7_Sorrows]

And now, you understand the Protestant perspective that asks, “why did those Catholics add books to the Bible?!?”



Here’s the thing: when we look at a given situation, we tend to presume that our own position is normative, and anybody else who does things differently… well, they’re the ones who are different!

So, although we know that it was Protestants who removed those books from the Bible, some Protestants ask “why did Catholics add them?”

Same thing here: it’s not that the provinces you mention are different – it’s you who’s different!

Ascension Thursday was always celebrated on, well… Thursday! But, when authority to move the celebration to Sunday was granted, some provinces (ahem… us) kept it on Thursday. Other provinces (ahem… ya’ll) were the ones who decided to be different and move it to Sunday!

So, the real question is: why are ya’ll different?

It really is not that big of deal. Just wondering why they had not changed with the rest of the country.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Eastern Nebraska has been known for having some very conservative Catholic bishops. Perhaps they did not wish to make the change.

 

[jediliz]

Eastern Nebraska has been known for having some very conservative Catholic bishops. Perhaps they did not wish to make the change.

Lincoln is blessed with a lot of priests and several mass times (my parish has vigil masses for holy days.) There is no need to change it if you have vigil masses. My own parish has 4 mass time options, including 6:30 am daily m-f.

It’s 40 days after Easter and that is Thursday. Pentecost is 50 days after Easter (ten after the ascension).

I’m glad my diocese does NOT change it.

 

[buc_fan33]

Lincoln is blessed with a lot of priests and several mass times (my parish has vigil masses for holy days.) There is no need to change it if you have vigil masses. My own parish has 4 mass time options, including 6:30 am daily m-f.

It’s 40 days after Easter and that is Thursday. Pentecost is 50 days after Easter (ten after the ascension).

I’m glad my diocese does NOT change it.

Just so you’re aware, it’s not your diocese. It’s the province in which your diocese happens to fall. Western Nebraska, which I believe contains part of the Diocese of Lincoln and all of the Diocese of Grand Island, also celebrates the Ascension on Thursday of the 6th Week of Easter.

For my part, I wish for two things, one general and one specific. In general, I wish the entire country of the United States would have one practice…either Thursday, or Sunday, but not Thursday in some parts, and Sunday in others.

Specifically, I wish we would move the observation of the Ascension back to Thursday across the board. When we move major solemnities like this, it gives the impression that these days really aren’t all that important. We wouldn’t imagine moving Christmas, as an example, to say…December 27, because, gosh, December 25 is a Friday this year and it’s just so difficult to get to Mass. I realize December 25 is actually a Monday this year (2017).

So…I’d settle for a uniform day for the celebration. I’d prefer that that uniform day be Thursday.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Lincoln is blessed with a lot of priests and several mass times (my parish has vigil masses for holy days.) There is no need to change it if you have vigil masses. My own parish has 4 mass time options, including 6:30 am daily m-f.

It’s 40 days after Easter and that is Thursday. Pentecost is 50 days after Easter (ten after the ascension).

I’m glad my diocese does NOT change it.

yes I have heard how great the diocese is there.
I figured that they are more conservative had something to do with it.
you are lucky to live there.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Just so you’re aware, it’s not your diocese. It’s the province in which your diocese happens to fall. Western Nebraska, which I believe contains part of the Diocese of Lincoln and all of the Diocese of Grand Island, also celebrates the Ascension on Thursday of the 6th Week of Easter.

For my part, I wish for two things, one general and one specific. In general, I wish the entire country of the United States would have one practice…either Thursday, or Sunday, but not Thursday in some parts, and Sunday in others.

Specifically, I wish we would move the observation of the Ascension back to Thursday across the board. When we move major solemnities like this, it gives the impression that these days really aren’t all that important. We wouldn’t imagine moving Christmas, as an example, to say…December 27, because, gosh, December 25 is a Friday this year and it’s just so difficult to get to Mass. I realize December 25 is actually a Monday this year (2017).

So…I’d settle for a uniform day for the celebration. I’d prefer that that uniform day be Thursday.

as long as they offer many Mass times for people to be able to come otherwise it is hard to fulfill the obligation. I mean it makes sense if Ascension Day is 40 days after Easter that we would celebrate that day.
However, the Orthodox churches celebrate on a different day too since they use a different calendar.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

I recall going to nearly empty Masses on Ascension Thursday in the late '90s. Not all weekday holy days were that way, but there was always a noticeable and significant drop in attendance. Then, seemingly suddenly and without explanation, we were told that we no longer had to come on that Thursday but Sunday would take its place.

I can’t comment on how this attendance thing plays out now, as I normally don’t attend weekday holy day Masses in my home parish due to work schedules, and several other factors have changed around here as well.

Of course, we continue to have a full house for everyone’s favorite mid-week holy day of obligation: Ash Wednesday

 

[Kielbasi]

I recall going to nearly empty Masses on Ascension Thursday in the late '90s. Not all weekday holy days were that way, but there was always a noticeable and significant drop in attendance. Then, seemingly suddenly and without explanation, we were told that we no longer had to com:

The real problem is that in the United States, Ascension Thursday is just an ordinary work day and school day- totally unlike much of Europe and Latin America, where banks and a lot of offices are closed for the day. Further, even back in the 50’s and 60’s, people lived a lot closer to work as well as their church. It just wasn’t that much of a logistic hassle to make it to church that day much less avoid servile work for the holy day.

 

[DeniseNY]

In our bulletin tonight, there was a notice regarding attending ALL Holy Days of Obligation. We had a very light turn out on Thursday evening.

 

[pensmama87]

…

Of course, we continue to have a full house for everyone’s favorite mid-week holy day of obligation: Ash Wednesday

The funny thing about that is that Ash Wednesday is not actually a holy day of obligation at all.

 

[DeniseNY]

The funny thing about that is that Ash Wednesday is not actually a holy day of obligation at all.

I think he was being sarcastic.

 

[pensmama87]

I think he was being sarcastic.

I couldn’t tell - the comment works either way, though.

Still - obvious point for all the lurkers who don’t know - Ash Wednesday is NOT a holy day of obligation! That doesn’t mean it’s not good to go, but you don’t have to.

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

I think he was being sarcastic.

Yes, thank you… I was hoping the eye roll was clue enough to that. Ash Wednesday is one of the busiest days for our poor parish secretary to deal with people calling and dropping by worried about fulfilling their “obligation”. We now forward all calls to a prerecorded message first and hang a sign on all the church doors, but alas, there are still a few…

 

[pensmama87]

Yes, thank you… I was hoping the eye roll was clue enough to that. Ash Wednesday is one of the busiest days for our poor parish secretary to deal with people calling and dropping by worried about fulfilling their “obligation”. We now forward all calls to a prerecorded message first and hang a sign on all the church doors, but alas, there are still a few…

Sorry I missed it. I thought the eye roll referred to the crowds that can show up apparently for one day when they get something “extra,” but another day, nah, too much.

I know quite a few very serious practicing Catholics who are knowledgeable about their faith and assume Ash Wednesday is an HDO. They’d go even if it wasn’t, but I’ve heard similar comments from them, usually in reference to the packed parking lots or how the church can suddenly become almost empty after the distribution of ashes, but not before Mass is over.

 

[jimkhong]

The funny thing about that is that Ash Wednesday is not actually a holy day of obligation at all.

Historical reasons. Ash Wednesday used to be an aliturgical day, meaning no mass on that day. Just like Good Friday and Holy Saturday today (Midnight mass on Saturday night is not part on Saturday liturgically speaking). That’s why up until today, Good Friday is not a Holy Day of Obligation - because there is no mass on that day.

 

[jimkhong]

The real problem is that in the United States, Ascension Thursday is just an ordinary work day and school day- totally unlike much of Europe and Latin America, where banks and a lot of offices are closed for the day. Further, even back in the 50’s and 60’s, people lived a lot closer to work as well as their church. It just wasn’t that much of a logistic hassle to make it to church that day much less avoid servile work for the holy day.

So, it is only in America then. I often wondered why my divine office have the option of Ascension being on Sunday. So very inconceivable in the rest of the world as Ascension would by necessity be on Thursday being 40 days after Easter.

And to think it was moved for convenience rather than for liturgical reasons, over-riding liturgical and scriptural evidence & considerations. I can understand and even accept if the community is dispersed and have timing & transportation difficulties in getting to church on time on a working day. But just because people find it inconvenient. That really blows the mind!!

Not many countries have Ascension Thursday as a holiday so it is not correct to use that as an excuse for American Catholics. What about those countries which do not have Sunday as a weekend? Some states in my country have a Friday weekend and Sunday is a working/school day. Yet, for them, Sunday mass is still on Sunday. If the rest of the world can do that why not American Catholics?

And why only Ascension? Most of the other days of obligations are not holidays in America are they? Immaculate Conception, Ss Peter & Paul, etc? If American Catholics can go to church on those weekdays, why did American bishops think it is too difficult to educate American Catholics on the obligation for Ascension Thursday?

So very perplexing for the rest of us. I wonder where this will end?

 

[Cor_ad_Cor]

So, it is only in America then. I often wondered why my divine office have the option of Ascension being on Sunday. So very inconceivable in the rest of the world as Ascension would by necessity be on Thursday being 40 days after Easter.

And to think it was moved for convenience rather than for liturgical reasons, over-riding liturgical and scriptural evidence & considerations. I can understand and even accept if the community is dispersed and have timing & transportation difficulties in getting to church on time on a working day. But just because people find it inconvenient. That really blows the mind!!

Not many countries have Ascension Thursday as a holiday so it is not correct to use that as an excuse for American Catholics. What about those countries which do not have Sunday as a weekend? Some states in my country have a Friday weekend and Sunday is a working/school day. Yet, for them, Sunday mass is still on Sunday. If the rest of the world can do that why not American Catholics?

And why only Ascension? Most of the other days of obligations are not holidays in America are they? Immaculate Conception, Ss Peter & Paul, etc? If American Catholics can go to church on those weekdays, why did American bishops think it is too difficult to educate American Catholics on the obligation for Ascension Thursday?

So very perplexing for the rest of us. I wonder where this will end?

SS Peter and Paul is not a day of obligation in the US. We have three (other than Ascension) that typically fall on a regular working day: Assumption, All Saints, and Immaculate Conception. Other obligation days coincide with national holidays.

Edit to add: Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception is our national patroness, so the Holy Day is always celebrated (but the obligation may be lifted).