Washing of the Feet on Holy Thursday

[LilyM]

You heard it folks! If you’re not a male, and you are married, then you don’t have to listen to the Pope! Wow!

No - you have to listen to him, just not do 100% of every single thing that he does (ie if you’re married it’s a very bad idea to not have sex ever, if you’re a woman it’s a very bad idea to attempt to celebrate Mass.)

 

[LilyM]

It’s called tradition.

tradition. Exactly. Like permitting married clergy for the first millennium of the Church’s existence was tradition? And that tradition was changed - not easily either.

I’ll repeat myself - it seems clear that the matter has actually been left to the discretion of local bishops. So we aren’t to assume that it’s immutable, nor that priests who wash the feet of women are in any way being disobedient.

 

[teachccd]

Jesus washed His apostles’ feet as an example for us to be servants to one another. Had there been women in the upper room would He have neglected to wash their feet? My opinion, based on His actions towards the woman caught in adultery, would say no. Jesus came and died for all of us. In Jesus’ time women were chattel and not held in esteem. Jesus actually liberated women during those times. Our Blessed Mother washed the feet of humanity when she chose to do the will of God and serve Him.

I think that too many of us, yes I said us, are so hung up on particulars that we miss the message. Mother Teresa literally washed the feet of Christ in Calcutta, India. I really doubt Christ said don’t wash my feet for you are a woman.

This Gospel message is one of service to all. " I have given you a model to follow, so that as I have done for you, you should also do". – Jesus ( John 13:15 ) The message, my friends, is to see Christ in others, men and women, and to serve the least of His brethren. Thank God Mother Teresa and hundreds like her wash peoples feet and don’t ignore the call of God.

God Bless on this Good Friday…teachccd

 

[paramedicgirl]

tradition. Exactly. Like permitting married clergy for the first millennium of the Church’s existence was tradition? And that tradition was changed - not easily either.

I’ll repeat myself - it seems clear that the matter has actually been left to the discretion of local bishops. So we aren’t to assume that it’s immutable, nor that priests who wash the feet of women are in any way being disobedient.

Actually the document reads:

No. 51 of the circular letter states: "The washing of the feet of chosen men which, according to tradition, is performed on this day, represents the service and charity of Christ, who came ‘not to be served, but to serve.’ This tradition should be maintained, and its proper significance explained."

A single bishop was allowed to wash the feet of women, with permission from the Holy See, but that did not give blanket permission for all priests everywhere to follow suit. They need to seek permission before they can wash the feet of women on Holy Thursday.

About a year ago, however, the Holy See, while affirming that the men-only rule remains the norm, did permit a U.S. bishop to also wash women’s feet if he considered it pastorally necessary in specific cases. **This permission was for a particular case and from a strictly legal point of view has no value outside the diocese in question. **

I think I’ll follow the directive of Rome. Why must people force their own agenda on the Church?

The variations described above – of washing the feet of the entire congregation, of people washing each other’s feet (or hands), or doing so in situations that are not visible to all – tend to undermine the sense of this rite within the concrete context of the Mass of the Lord’s Supper. And that detracts attention from the commemoration of the institution of the Eucharist on Holy Thursday, the principal motive of the celebration.

 

[teachccd]

Why must people force their own agenda on the Church?

When I grew up you NEVER saw a woman on the sanctuary. I remember as a little boy seeing the cleaning lady vacuuming the sanctuary. I ran home to tell my mom. Now we have altar girls, women lectors, women Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion all of which are acceptable by the Bishops. So where does washing women’s feet seem out of place?

Our own agenda?? I don’t think so…teachccd

 

[paramedicgirl]

When I grew up you NEVER saw a woman on the sanctuary. I remember as a little boy seeing the cleaning lady vacuuming the sanctuary. I ran home to tell my mom. Now we have altar girls, women lectors, women Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion all of which are acceptable by the Bishops. So where does washing women’s feet seem out of place?

Our own agenda?? I don’t think so…teachccd

Of course it’s an agenda. Rome doesn’t allow it. Priests and laity abuse it. That makes it an agenda.

 

[HeyMoe1287]

Amen, paramedic.

 

[Uxor]

Of course it’s an agenda. Rome doesn’t allow it. Priests and laity abuse it. That makes it an agenda.

 

[teachccd]

Of course it’s an agenda. Rome doesn’t allow it. Priests and laity abuse it. That makes it an agenda.

I won’t serve women anymore. My mistake… Sorry Jesus, You only served men and that’s what You told us to do. That’s my agenda. How do you like me now??

Actually, my real agenda is to love one another as Christ loves us. I’m 100% positive that Pope Benedict XVI agrees with me here. Keep washing the mens feet on Holy Thursday and I’ll serve all humanity the other 364 days a year…God Bless

 

[andy120]

Does anyone know what this means when it says:

In this regard, it has become customary in many places to invite both men and women to be participants in this rite in recognition of the service that should be given by all the faithful to the Church and to the world. Thus, in the United States, a variation in the rite developed in which not only charity is signified but also humble service.​

While this variation may differ from the rubric of the Sacramentary which mentions only men (“viri selecti”), it may nevertheless be said that the intention to emphasize service along with charity in the celebration of the rite is an understandable way of accentuating the evangelical command of the Lord, “who came to serve and not to be served,” that all members of the Church must serve one another in love.​

I understand the rubric states that this ritual is for men, but why has the USCCB released this document, authorized by the Chairman of the Bishops Committee on the Liturgy? And does it actually mean anything significant?

 

[edward_george]

No foot washing during the actual Mass; I attended the Basilica at Belmont Abbey and according to the sacristan the Monks had a penance service in their house chapel during which the Abbot washed their feet.

-ACEGC

 

[Uxor]

I won’t serve women anymore. My mistake… Sorry Jesus, You only served men and that’s what You told us to do. That’s my agenda. How do you like me now??

Actually, my real agenda is to love one another as Christ loves us. I’m 100% positive that Pope Benedict XVI agrees with me here. Keep washing the mens feet on Holy Thursday and I’ll serve all humanity the other 364 days a year…God Bless

Apparently you can’t distinguish the Priesthood from the laity. No Priesthood, no Mass, no Priesthood, no Eucharist. I think your attitude toward Christ is shocking and arrogant especially on Good Friday, the day He suffered and died for everyone of your sins. That isn’t thank-you enough? You are going to admonish Him for selecting men to head his Church and because of it thinking it is not serving all of mankind. You have to be kidding? They serve us through the Sacraments. Your serving mankind is as a layperson, a mother, father, brother, sister etc. What is wrong with that role, doesn’t make you automatically a Priest. Priests are our lifeline. Where is your respect? I thank God men listen to his call, without them I would panic… And no Pope Benedict XVI would not agree with you. Since you have a problem how God does things I would take the matter up with Him and not try to hi-jack this thread because of your disagreement and blatant disobedience in God’s face and mine.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I won’t serve women anymore. My mistake… Sorry Jesus, You only served men and that’s what You told us to do. That’s my agenda. How do you like me now??

Actually, my real agenda is to love one another as Christ loves us. I’m 100% positive that Pope Benedict XVI agrees with me here. Keep washing the mens feet on Holy Thursday and I’ll serve all humanity the other 364 days a year…God Bless

Why is tradition so hard to take?

 

[bear06]

Why is tradition so hard to take?

I think it’s a misunderstanding of this tradition that is the problem here. People seem to be under the belief that the washing of feet on Holy Thursday is all about service. If this were the case then it would probably be just fine but there’s more to it than that and this is the reason that the Vatican has said to maintain it to 12 men. Despite the wacky washing of 300, the deacon who gave the sermon (a friend of mine, which is why I went to that church) explained the fact that there’s more to it than simply service of others. Here’s a great article on the tradition which shows the difference.
adoremus.org/97-03_pokorsky.htm
and a snippet from it:

Particularly in the context of the Holy Thursday liturgy, the ritual of washing the feet of men suggests the strong connection between Christ’s washing His Apostles feet and the institution of the Eucharist and Holy Orders. That the Vatican did not the accept the American interpretation of this ritual suggests that there are important theological reasons for the customary practice.
If the washing of feet were only symbolic of charity and service, why did Jesus not wash the feet of the sick, or the hungry, or the lepers, or His friends in the house of Lazarus, or at the feeding of the five thousand? The Lord might have have found other occasions to give a lesson in charity and service in the presence of all His disciples, both men and women. But He did not.

Christ chose an occasion which was not open to all His followers, but only to those twelve men He had chosen and called as Apostles. We must conclude, then, that the ritual is intimately connected to the priesthood and the institution of the Eucharist. Its symbolism cannot be reduced to a general theme of service to the whole Church.

The Lord’s example is given to those who would serve the people of God in His name, calling them to humility and self-abnegation in their priestly ministry. Hence, the ceremonial recalling of this act is liturgically related to the whole mystery of Holy Thursday – to the priesthood and the Eucharist. To include women confuses this focus and obscures the theological meaning of these solemn acts.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I think it’s a misunderstanding of this tradition that is the problem here. People seem to be under the belief that the washing of feet on Holy Thursday is all about service. If this were the case then it would probably be just fine but there’s more to it than that and this is the reason that the Vatican has said to maintain it to 12 men. Despite the wacky washing of 300, the deacon who gave the sermon (a friend of mine, which is why I went to that church) explained the fact that there’s more to it than simply service of others. Here’s a great article on the tradition which shows the difference.
adoremus.org/97-03_pokorsky.htm
and a snippet from it:

And the most important snippet:
We must conclude, then, that the ritual is intimately connected to the priesthood and the institution of the Eucharist. Its symbolism cannot be reduced to a general theme of service to the whole Church.

When will they get it?

 

[LilyM]

Why is tradition so hard to take?

Should we be happy with small t traditions being set in stone when the rationale behind them is so darn unsatisfactory and nearly non-existent? ‘It was always done this way’. Big whoop. We know what Jesus thought of the things that were done in his day merely because they ‘were always done this way’. He knew how to separate mere trappings from essential points of faith and practice. And so should we. What were we given brains for if not?

Let me clarify. I’m perfectly fine with male priests, celibate clergy and religious, the entirety of the Church’s teaching on marriage and sexuality and 98% of other matters that many others have problems with, but this one is totally beyond me.

I mean Jesus only gave the Eucharist to men as well. It would make EVERY BIT as much sense to me, then, if the Eucharist itself were only be given to males. Jesus had the last supper with 12 others. If the sole aim is to recreate it then why not mandate 12 priests concelebrating for a true and correct re-creation, and one other to disappear in the middle?

It’s as frustrating as my first day of algebra, put it that way.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Should we be happy with small t traditions being set in stone when the rationale behind them is so darn unsatisfactory and nearly non-existent? ‘It was always done this way’. Big whoop. We know what Jesus thought of the things that were done in his day merely because they ‘were always done this way’. He knew how to separate mere trappings from essential points of faith and practice. And so should we. What were we given brains for if not?

Let me clarify. I’m perfectly fine with male priests, celibate clergy and religious, the entirety of the Church’s teaching on marriage and sexuality and 98% of other matters that many others have problems with, but this one is totally beyond me.

I mean Jesus only gave the Eucharist to men as well. It would make EVERY BIT as much sense to me, then, if the Eucharist itself were only be given to males. Jesus had the last supper with 12 others. If the sole aim is to recreate it then why not mandate 12 priests concelebrating for a true and correct re-creation, and one other to disappear in the middle?

It’s as frustrating as my first day of algebra, put it that way.

Why not just trust that the Vatican knows what it is doing in preserving this tradition?

 

[LilyM]

I think it’s a misunderstanding of this tradition that is the problem here. People seem to be under the belief that the washing of feet on Holy Thursday is all about service. If this were the case then it would probably be just fine but there’s more to it than that and this is the reason that the Vatican has said to maintain it to 12 men. Despite the wacky washing of 300, the deacon who gave the sermon (a friend of mine, which is why I went to that church) explained the fact that there’s more to it than simply service of others. Here’s a great article on the tradition which shows the difference.
adoremus.org/97-03_pokorsky.htm
and a snippet from it:

That part of the article appears to be the writer’s own opinion and nothing more. The Vatian documents he cites only refer to the footwashing as relating to Christ’s command to serve all, and nothing to do with the institution of the priesthood. If it were, for example, related to the insitution of the priesthood why does it not also form part of the rite of ordination of a priest or bishop? (As far as I am aware it does not).

In fact it appears that the whole ritual of footwashing was dispensed with for some time prior to 1955 - so clearly the practice is far from crucial in the functions of the Holy Thursday Mass, which are ALL adequately served by the reading of the Last Supper Gospel and the Scripture preceding it as well.

 

[KMXV]

I mean Jesus only gave the Eucharist to men as well. It would make EVERY BIT as much sense to me, then, if the Eucharist itself were only be given to males.

Now you’re talking. I like to see a woman who knows her proper place.

 

[LilyM]

Why not just trust that the Vatican knows what it is doing in preserving this tradition?

IF they know so well what they’re doing then they should be able to TELL US why they’re preserving it - in a way which at least makes some sense!

They’ve successfully done so with women’s ordination, with their teachings on sexuality, loads of other things - if this is so all-fired important to preserve, then why is it that not one of us can give a decent reason as to why? And why was it dumped for who-knows-how-long prior to 1955?