Wasn't there an actual ark?

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athenaluvsdoves

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In my RCIA class today, we were talking about the Old Testament. The person leading the class said that that there wasn’t a literal Noah’s Ark. I’ve never heard that in my life before and it really is concerning me. Is that the official teaching of the Catholic Church and if so, where would I find it in the Catechism? :confused:
 
I haven’t heard that one before. You might ask your priest about it. Or ask the person who said this to point out where it says that there wasn’t an actual ark. The ark is even mentioned in the New Testament. Right off the top of my head I can’t remember the specifics, but it compared baptism with the flood. Sort of.

Somebody help me here. I know it’s in one of the letters, but I can’t remember if it was Peter or Paul. I’m pretty sure it’s in one of Peter’s letters.

To me, saying there was no actual ark is almost as bad as saying Jesus really didn’t die on the cross. Both are saving events. Both as a result of sin.
 
Yes, I have also heard this. In fact, a priest said this in his homily. I will not say his name here. I also remember having a very long discussion with a friend of mine about this as well. Of course, two of us could never resolved the issue of
'real" or “no real,” so we asked…just like you are asking. It was then explained as thus by another authority figure of the RC church: There are different camps on this question. A person can go with the camp that the Holy Spirit tells them is correct.

I personally chose to believe in the historical fact of the flood and the ark. I also believe that there is a ton of symbolism here as well. So, I’m a middle of the road, best of both worlds kind of person.
 
( tat bit off topic)
I was talking with a boat retail shop owner and the topic of Noah’s Ark came up. He was all excited about what he knew about Noah’s Ark. He told me that various people are rebuilding or have rebuilt the Ark to the specifications in the Bible.

I just did a search “noah’s ark rebuilt” and found a whole bunch of links. Pretty interesting.

The boat shop owner also told me that he had heard that scientists who know about naval ship building etc had studied the spec of the ark as appears in the Bible and said that the specs yielded the most perfect and stable of all ships. No other boat would be as perfect and stable as that described in the Bible. The boat shop owner thought that was so-o-o amazing. I thought so as well.
 
As long as the truth of the message is preserved then one is o.k. to choose as he/she pleases. I personally believe that there was a real Ark but our modernistic scholars sometimes decide that they know more than the Early Church Fathers who were a mere few centuries removed from Christ.

This is contoversial but I teach the kids that this was an actual occurrence and I choose to be one of those kids…I’m not burying my head in the sand but I’m also not going to separate the grains…teachccd
 
I believe in the Ark - and the other miracles of the Bible. As to Catholic teaching, I believe it provides room for treating much as metephor as long as it doesn’t compromise the deposit of faith.

The concern I have about those who deny the miracles of parting the red sea, jonah and whale or other miracles, is that it is a slippery slope to ultimately denying the actual miracles of Christ including the resurrection - this was in fact a heresy of the early Church years.

Jesus’s own words testify to Jonah being the in whale for 3 days - he certainly seemed to believe it to be true.

I suppose we will find out some day in heaven (God willing).

Blessings.

Brian
 
It just didn’t sound right to me because Jesus even said in Matthew 24, that as the days of Noah were so will the coming of the Son of Man be. If there’s no ark,then there’s no Noah. Noah is synonymous with the ark.

Another thing to consider is that in Genesis 9, it tells us that from Noah’s three sons, the whole earth was populated after the flood. It even tells us what son the Gentiles came from.

After reading everyone’s posts, I feel so much better .🙂
 
teachccd said:
As long as the truth of the message is preserved then one is o.k. to choose as he/she pleases. I personally believe that there was a real Ark but our modernistic scholars sometimes decide that they know more than the Early Church Fathers who were a mere few centuries removed from Christ.

This is contoversial but I teach the kids that this was an actual occurrence and I choose to be one of those kids…I’m not burying my head in the sand but I’m also not going to separate the grains…teachccd
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“Modernistic” = ?​

The Fathers were almost all ignorant of Hebrew, & many know no Greek at all. They were very poorly equipped compared to most Biblical scholars since 1530 or so, & they simply can’t compare with any scholar since 1870 or so. Through no fault of theirs, modern scholars have access to far more information about the Bible than any of the “Church infants” were able to have. Infancy is all very well, but the Church can’t live in the play-pen, or wear nappies (“diapers”, in US Eng.), for ever. It has to grow up some time.

The Flood is a Jewish legend, not history. The theology & ideas of the Biblical Flood story can survive perfectly well without having to be based on the doings of a character who is a fiction. Those who are so insistent on what is called “Ark-eology” are really trying to find proof of a pre-Israelite (because Mesopotamian) myth - Noah is an Israelite version of Utnapishtim, the hero of the Babylonian flood legend; who is in turn a translation of Ziudsura, the hero of the Sumerian flood legend - the remains of which can be read here:
 
athenaluvsdoves said:
In my RCIA class today, we were talking about the Old Testament. The person leading the class said that that there wasn’t a literal Noah’s Ark. I’ve never heard that in my life before and it really is concerning me. Is that the official teaching of the Catholic Church and if so, where would I find it in the Catechism? :confused:
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As far as I know, there is no official teaching of the Catholic Church on the subject whether there was or wasn’t a literal Noah’s Ark. I think your RCIA class leader was expressing a personal opinion.
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

“Modernistic” = ?​

The Fathers were almost all ignorant of Hebrew, & many know no Greek at all. They were very poorly equipped compared to most Biblical scholars since 1530 or so, & they simply can’t compare with any scholar since 1870 or so. Through no fault of theirs, modern scholars have access to far more information about the Bible than any of the “Church infants” were able to have. Infancy is all very well, but the Church can’t live in the play-pen, or wear nappies (“diapers”, in US Eng.), for ever. It has to grow up some time.

The Flood is a Jewish legend, not history. The theology & ideas of the Biblical Flood story can survive perfectly well without having to be based on the doings of a character who is a fiction. Those who are so insistent on what is called “Ark-eology” are really trying to find proof of a pre-Israelite (because Mesopotamian) myth - Noah is an Israelite version of Utnapishtim, the hero of the Babylonian flood legend; who is in turn a translation of Ziudsura, the hero of the Sumerian flood legend - the remains of which can be read here:
Click to expand...
Don’t so cocksure about the flood, given the universality of reports about the same. Even if we say that the story of Noah is a retelling of an ancient story, that does not mean that the flood never occured. For instance, we know that the Black Sea many thousands of years ago broke through a damm across the Straits and flooded the eastern Mediterranean Basin, which had long been a desert region. Something similar happened to a damn at the western end. The end of the Ice Age, which causes the seas to rise might have caused great storms that would almost overwhelm the tiny human population.
 
Gottle of Geer;4232390 said:
*]http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.7.4&display=Crit&charenc=gcirc&lineid=t174.p1#t174.p1
*]http://www.noahs-ark-flood.com/index.html
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With respect, and love, you can’t state this as affirmatively as you have “The Flood is a Jewish legend, not history.” You were not there - you can’t possible “know” that. As I posted before, I would not presume to judge anyone who does not believe this to have occurred (and I don’t believe the Catholic Church mandates the literal belief in the story), but I do believe it.

In terms of historical record, in fact, stories of the flood occur in many cultures and religions, suggesting the occurrence of an historical flood - so this not limited to Jewish history/scripture. There is indeed archeological and geological evidence that supports a flood of some sort. There are sea fossils on the some the tallest mountain tops. Why there may well be alternative scientific explanations for some of these findings, there is also a reasonable scientific explanation that the flood actually ocurred. Just food for thought.

Blessings,

Brian
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

“Modernistic” = ?​

The Fathers were almost all ignorant of Hebrew, & many know no Greek at all. They were very poorly equipped compared to most Biblical scholars since 1530 or so, & they simply can’t compare with any scholar since 1870 or so. Through no fault of theirs, modern scholars have access to far more information about the Bible than any of the “Church infants” were able to have. Infancy is all very well, but the Church can’t live in the play-pen, or wear nappies (“diapers”, in US Eng.), for ever. It has to grow up some time.

The Flood is a Jewish legend, not history. The theology & ideas of the Biblical Flood story can survive perfectly well without having to be based on the doings of a character who is a fiction. Those who are so insistent on what is called “Ark-eology” are really trying to find proof of a pre-Israelite (because Mesopotamian) myth - Noah is an Israelite version of Utnapishtim, the hero of the Babylonian flood legend; who is in turn a translation of Ziudsura, the hero of the Sumerian flood legend - the remains of which can be read here:
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing…😉 teachccd
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

“Modernistic” = ?​

The Fathers were almost all ignorant of Hebrew, & many know no Greek at all. They were very poorly equipped compared to most Biblical scholars since 1530 or so, & they simply can’t compare with any scholar since 1870 or so. Through no fault of theirs, modern scholars have access to far more information about the Bible than any of the “Church infants” were able to have. Infancy is all very well, but the Church can’t live in the play-pen, or wear nappies (“diapers”, in US Eng.), for ever. It has to grow up some time.
Click to expand...
Really?? Then in what language did our Early Church Fathers write while at the same time their counterparts (the Apostles) wrote Scripture?? Are you not aware of Sacred Tradition and how revelation was “passed down” (paradosis in Greek) from generation to generation?? So Saint Polycarp, who was a disciple of John the Apostle, knew less about biblical events than a 19th century scholar??

Yes, our Church is growing in understanding but to discount the teachings of the Early Church Fathers is preposterous. I have to disagree with you and for the sake of our ancient faith I’m glad that so many still adhere to the teachings of the Early Church Fathers, especially those who acknowledged our canon of Scripture. Canonicity occurred in the fourth century by our Early Church Fathers who couldn’t read Hebrew or Greek?? So we had a bunch if ignorant guys acknowledge the Scripture that 19th century “scholars” would better interpret. O.K. enough said…Peace, teachccd:shrug:
 
Actually you might want to check out the History Channel’s show “History’s Mysteries”. They once did a show that explored the possibility that Noah’s Ark may have been found. They discusses the evidence such as satellite photos and other things.
 
It seems that if catastrophic floods can happen in modern day times, then they also could have happened in Noah’s time.

Right now as we all write here, there are things happening to our immediate solar system as well as on our immediate earth. We are in a “quiet” period of the sun. We are between sun cycles. Scientists with their new fancy tools are discovering some pretty amazing things about our sun as well as, now, are being able to observe more closely our area in this particular place of the universe.

What is the significance of our “quiet” sun? Quiet means no solar spots. Solar spot activity goes in waves, USUALLY over about an eleven year period. When the peak of the wave happens, it gets really hot here on earth. When the wave beginning and the end happens, it is cooler here on earth. Well, we haven’t started our next solar cycle. In fact, we are very, very much delayed in the start of the next solar cycle. Scientists do not know why. They are concerned. They can predict that environmental conditions will be similar to conditions that have happened in fairly recent past history.

Some scientists are predicting climate like that which we had back in 1913. This was a period right before WW I. Some are saying the climate will be more like that of 1650 and 1700. Now, climate predictions must be adjusted for the condition of global warming.

With this advent of the impending mini ice age, which very much seems to be taking place, higher altitudes like those near Pakistan, will be icing over. These glaciers, even though global warming is melting them, will refreeze. Once the solar spots start up again, the earth will become warmer, and because of global warming will REALLY start melting at an above average rate. Huge lakes will form behind ice jams. A crack at the glacier base will slowly, and discretely ‘shake’ the stability of the glacier, finally resulting in a catastrophic flood. We’re talking massive amounts of water rushing at full force down higher slopes, leveling EVERYTHING in its path. Hey, the 2004 Christmas tsunami was tiny compared to what ‘Noah’ flood is to come. That event was the third largest killer of human life ever on this earth. This next ones will become overtake that standing.

To compound this catastrophe with something much more catastrophic, scientists have discovered that the solar FLARES are much hotter than they were before. Now solar flares have to do with the magnetic earthquakes on the sun. Scientists have noted correlations, but have not uncovered the why.

People, I really think Noah’s flood could happen again everywhere that there are mountains. Yet, the earth is getting so-o-o warm just from man’s abuse of it. It is really a difficult call. Could it still happen? How much ‘quiet’ sun will it take to cool the abused earth enough to cause this?

At any rate, watching earth science can be very much a prayer point.

One other thing, our Roman Catholic Bishops said that the OT Ark represented the NT Church. That’s pretty cool.
 
depending on your choice of length for a cubit, the ark would be about 450 feet long. at around 300’, with a wooden hull, the distribution of weight and buoyancy warps the hull (hogs and straddles as the ends and middle move in opposite directions as the hull floats) and the ship cannot stay watertight. steel bracing – obviously not available to noah – works, but severely diminishes cargo capacity. here is the usual citation for the engineering problems: Robb, A.M. (1958). “Ship-Building.” In Singer, Charles, Holmyard, E.J., Hall, A.R., and Williams, Trevor (ed.), A History of Technology, vol 5: The Late Nineteenth Century, c1850 to c1900. Oxford: Oxford University Press, pp350-390.
 
Why would there even be a question about this? Perhaps it’s because so many of us have been schooled in a humanistic worldview. So much of what the world teaches fights against the Church’s teachings. Consider these things:
  1. if you want to know some scientific reasons to support the flood , you may be interested in how the Wooly Mamoths were frozen almost instantaneously. Many many mamoths have been found in exceptional condition For one of the mamoths the mouth was filled with grass, which had been cropped, but not chewed and swallowed. Normal decomposition would have made this dissolve. The theory is that the flood created an ice storm when the deep waters from under the earth broke open shooting like a gyser into space. Want to know more : google : “dr brown flood”.
  2. everytime archeology tests out a biblical fact , it supports it.
  3. Jesus cited the canonicity of scripture.
  4. There have been many critics of the bible, such as Bultman (spelling?) who are basically ethnocentric thinkers and seeking to discredit the Bible and Christianity. Bultman said that Moses couldn’t have written the Bible as writing came after. We know now that the tablets of Ebla far preceed Moses.
  5. Consider this; Were you taught that the “Theory of Evolution” was just a theory? Many things that have been taught for a long time gain credence even after they are shown to be unlikely or even disproven. Human teachers often pass on futile philosophies as truth.
 
I was always taught that the story of Noah is not about a boat ride with animals.
 
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