Watch what you say about Christ's Church

[distracted]

There is the passage about how Uzzah touched the Ark of the Covenant improperly & was struck dead… The Real Presence of Christ abides in the new ark… the Church…

2 Peter 2:12 speaks of some who “…taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption.”

There is the passage in St. Matthew which i strongly believe refers to the wedding of the Church with its spouse, Jesus Christ:

St. Matthew 22:2: The kingdom of Heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding; and they would not come. Again he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, i have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways… and the remnant took his servants and entreated them spitefully, and slew them… [W]hen the king heard thereof, he was angry and he sent forth his armies and destroyed those murderers… Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which are bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests…"

Also there is Titus 3;10: A man that is an heretic, after the first and second admonition reject… knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

 

[tGette]

Then I will say:

I LOVE THE CHURCH THAT JESUS GAVE US!

I LOVE THAT JESUS KEEPS HIS PROMISES!

I LOVE THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE FULFILLMENT OF ONE SUCH PROMISE!

 

[distracted]

Then I will say:

I LOVE THE CHURCH THAT JESUS GAVE US!

I LOVE THAT JESUS KEEPS HIS PROMISES!

I LOVE THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE FULFILLMENT OF ONE SUCH PROMISE!

me too… just don’t understand some of the posters here who hear all this info about the Church and yet still reject Her…

I think, frankly… if you want to know what i REALLY think…

i think such resistance is straight from the pit of Hell…

As it says in 1 John… the one who sins is from the devil… & it is a sin to reject truth…

Jesus IS truth … (the way, the truth and the life)… His Church is where He is… His Church teaches his truth - not human “truth” that is taught in man-made “churches”… churches that came 1500 + yrs after the first (and only) one…

God bless…

 

[JMJ_coder]

Consequently, we too receive the Holy Spirit if we love the Church, if we are joined together by charity, if we rejoice in the Catholic name and faith. Let us believe, brethren; as much as every man loves the Church of Christ, so much has he the Holy Spirit.

–Saint Augustine (Tractatus in Io 32, 8 )​

 

[tGette]

me too… just don’t understand some of the posters here who hear all this info about the Church and yet still reject Her…

I think, frankly… if you want to know what i REALLY think…

i think such resistance is straight from the pit of Hell…

As it says in 1 John… the one who sins is from the devil… & it is a sin to reject truth…

Jesus IS truth … (the way, the truth and the life)… His Church is where He is… His Church teaches his truth - not human “truth” that is taught in man-made “churches”… churches that came 1500 + yrs after the first (and only) one…

God bless…

I know!
My one friend and I sometimes wonder why more people are not convinced of these historical truths, the truths of which set a cascade of changes in our minds to begin our conversions.

We need to continue to be diligent in our prayers.
We need to remember that we could speak a trillion words and it will never change a person, but if God breathes one word they will be a new person!

On that note…I am reestablishing an old thread. So as to get us all in the habit of praying more!

 

[Cool_Hand_Luck]

As thankful as I am I found the truth in the Catholic church, I will never discredit the value of questioning and searching. Forever let the masses question, even scrutinize. For it is in this process that we come to know our faith. I started to learn the church by trying to destroy the church. I was desperate to destroy her. But the further along I went, and the more I learned, the more things made sense. Eventually there was no choice but to accept Her sovereignty and Her truth.
Not every one is going to come to the same conclusions I did. But I would be no where with out the quest. I think thats some thing I enjoy most about the church, the quest.

 

[tGette]

As thankful as I am I found the truth in the Catholic church, I will never discredit the value of questioning and searching. Forever let the masses question, even scrutinize. For it is in this process that we come to know our faith. I started to learn the church by trying to destroy the church. I was desperate to destroy her. But the further along I went, and the more I learned, the more things made sense. Eventually there was no choice but to accept Her sovereignty and Her truth.
Not every one is going to come to the same conclusions I did. But I would be no where with out the quest. I think thats some thing I enjoy most about the church, the quest.

The journey!

 

[Cool_Hand_Luck]

The journey!

Amen

 

[distracted]

As thankful as I am I found the truth in the Catholic church, I will never discredit the value of questioning and searching. Forever let the masses question, even scrutinize. For it is in this process that we come to know our faith. I started to learn the church by trying to destroy the church. I was desperate to destroy her. But the further along I went, and the more I learned, the more things made sense. Eventually there was no choice but to accept Her sovereignty and Her truth.
Not every one is going to come to the same conclusions I did. But I would be no where with out the quest. I think thats some thing I enjoy most about the church, the quest.

thank you… Your post has done a lot to encourage me… Sometimes i think that when i teach others what i know about the Church (history, teachings, etc.), i am talking to a wall…It would help if i saw my “seeds” grow… but i guess my job is just to plant them everywhere & trust God to get them… up & out of the ground… into the Son-light

 

[distracted]

Consequently, we too receive the Holy Spirit if we love the Church, if we are joined together by charity, if we rejoice in the Catholic name and faith. Let us believe, brethren; as much as every man loves the Church of Christ, so much has he the Holy Spirit.

–Saint Augustine (Tractatus in Io 32, 8 )​

wow… i never knew St. A said that… (… as much as every man loves the Church of Christ, so much has he the Holy spirit)…

kinda makes one think that if one is constantly attacking the Church, one does NOT have the Holy Spirit… (i am not speaking of those who are “invincibly ignorant”… That’s a different story… and i guess we humans never can say whether one is invisibly ignorant or not…)…

Godb bless…

 

[distracted]

When i quoted those scripture passages, i did so from the King James version because that’s all that was available. Underlined are things that stand out to me… Here is 2 Peter from the Douay Rheims version (actually, i am going to back further than 2:12):

2 Peter 2:1-21: “But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers, who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their rioutousness, through whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of, and through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you… For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but delivered them, drawn down by infernal ropes to the lower Hell, unto tomrnets, to be reserved unto judgment: and spared not the original world, but preserved Noe, the eighth person, the preacher of justice, bringing in the flood upon the wolrd of the ungodly, and reducing the cities of the Sodomites, and of the Gomorrhites, into ahses, condemend them to be over-thrown, making them an example to those that should after act wickedly. And delivered just Lot, oppressed by the injustice and lewd conversation of the wicked. For in sight and hearing he was just: dwelling among them, who from day to day vexed the just soul with unjust works.
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly from temptation, but to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be tormented. and especially them who walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise governrnment, audacious, self-willed, they fear not to bring in sects, blashpheming. Whereas angels who are greater in strength and power, bring not against themselves a railing judgment. but these men, as irrational beasts, naturally tending to the snare and to destruction, blasheming those things which they know not, shall perish in their corruption., receing the reward of their injustice, counting for a pleasure the delights of a day: stains and spots, sporting themselves to excess, rioting in their feaasts with you… [their] sin that ceaseth not: alluring unstable souls, having their heart exercised with covetousness, children of malediction, leaving the right way, they have gone astray… For speaking proud words of vanity, they allure by the desires of fleshly riotousness… Promising them liberty, whereas they themselves are the slaves of corruption. For by whom a man is overcome, of the same also he is the slave. For if, flying from the pollutions of this world, through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they be again entangled in them and overcome: their latter state is become unto them worse than the former. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of justice, than after they have known it, to turn back from that holy commandment which was delivered to them…”

 

[distracted]

hmmm…

No one is going to argue with the Word of God??

 

[Pinkyyy]

me too… just don’t understand some of the posters here who hear all this info about the Church and yet still reject Her…

I think, frankly… if you want to know what i REALLY think…

i think such resistance is straight from the pit of Hell…

As it says in 1 John… the one who sins is from the devil… & it is a sin to reject truth…

Jesus IS truth … (the way, the truth and the life)… His Church is where He is… His Church teaches his truth - not human “truth” that is taught in man-made “churches”… churches that came 1500 + yrs after the first (and only) one…

God bless…

Here is what I really think…I can not join the church because of this attitude. I will remain Lutheran even though I do agree with some of the church’s teaching and my husband is Catholic - I never will be apart of the RCC because I can’t stand this we are right, you’re wrong. We’re truth, you’re from the devil - that’s what is being said here, right? You say that Jesus is truth (we say this as well). But your argument is that we are rejecting truth. This truth is Jesus - we definately are not rejecting Jesus - in fact, our religion is bases on Jesus as you know! You know that Protestants worship Jesus as well, and personally I’ve never personally met anyone that has not sinned. John is speaking of sinning and you are trying to link your argument into it. Have you not sinned?

 

[distracted]

Here is what I really think…I can not join the church because of this attitude. I will remain Lutheran even though I do agree with some of the church’s teaching and my husband is Catholic - I never will be apart of the RCC because I can’t stand this we are right, you’re wrong. We’re truth, you’re from the devil - that’s what is being said here, right? You say that Jesus is truth (we say this as well). But your argument is that we are rejecting truth. This truth is Jesus - we definately are not rejecting Jesus - in fact, our religion is bases on Jesus as you know! You know that Protestants worship Jesus as well, and personally I’ve never personally met anyone that has not sinned. John is speaking of sinning and you are trying to link your argument into it. Have you not sinned?

for one thing, i said SOME posters… meaning posters who spend a lot of time here and hear virtually every Catholic doctrine explained to death and yet they don’t convert… Does this shoe fit you? Well, i can’t help what i think and the Church pretty much teaches that.

If you stay Lutheran just because of the way some humans act … well… that is not a very good reason…

One should be in the Church that teaches the truth about Christ… and was founded by Him…

if i let what humans do influence me, i would have left the Church a long time ago…

 

[distracted]

All of us have “argued” with the Word of God… We have all sinned…

Yes, i have sinned… and i have been and sometimes still am “of the devil”.

If i can admit that, why can’t you?

Fortunately, those of us who are “of the devil” have Jesus in our hearts/minds and (we Catholics) have Him in our bodies… and in the Churches (Real Presence)…

No devil can get us if we stay near to Him There…

 

[reen12]

Christians hold that Jesus was a God/man.
They further hold that the God/man is the door to salvation.
[Since no one was waiting for a savior - that, in itself, is of interest.]

The continual reference made to C.S. Lewis’ statement
that Jesus was either a madman or God, is risible…
to those who have known ‘mad man.’

[A sweet man like Jesus of Nazareth could not be held to be lying,
which I think was Lewis’ third category.]

There are many, with good hearts, who are - on occassion, delusional.

Elwood P. Dowd - in the Pulizer Prize winning play, Harvey, comes to mind.
Elwood P. Dowd thought that he saw a 6 foot white rabbit, yet everyone
was very fond of him for his gentleness and kindness.
In all other respects, Elwood was perfectly with the program, except for that rabbit. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

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youtube.com/watch?v=VvfXvW2wsuQ&feature=related

The broad brush…that Lewis would use - simply reflects his own lack of knowledge,
as to that being described by him as a possible ‘mad man.’
Eccentric? Yes. “Mad man?” No. Jesus fits this first category, like a glove, but not the 2nd.

In this instance, Lewis thought in black and white tones. Either ‘sane’ or ‘mad.’

Clive…there are many points on the spectrum - and ‘eccentric’ is one of them.
[Cursing a fig tree - out of season - shoulda raised some eyebrows, but apparently not.]
Once decide that Jesus was a God/man, and he’s given carte blanche - in terms of his behavior. An ‘explanation’ is provided, to try to make eccentric behavior seem larded with meaning.

Jesus was a sweet, eccentric young man.

That 2+ billion human beings think otherwise, holding him to
be a divinity is perfectly fine.
And it’s sweet, too, for Christians to worry about the salvation of others…
I’m sure that God is pleased about this concern for the
eternal well-being of nearly 5 billion other people in the world.

‘By their fruits you will know them.’

Yes indeed. That’s correct. I’m thinking ‘figs.’

reen12

 

[reen12]

It is always of interest to read the exchanges between members of various
denominations of Christianity.

How are we to be saved? Man is born in ontological sin.
We need saving from this deleterious reality.
Then follow discussions on how this salvation is to be obtained,
and who’s church holds the truth.
[The fact that no one was awaiting a savior is, apparently, of no moment.]

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It is of more than passing interest that Jesus was willing to destroy a living thing,
just to make a point. [Which point was a complete *non-sequitur - in terms of
the cursing of this fig tree, for not producing figs… out of season.]
This was a rational act?

It surely highlights the difference between Jesus and Siddhartha Gautama.

Siddhartha taught that every living creature was to be treated
with great respect.
Destroying that fig tree conveys quite a bit, about the young man from Nazareth,
in his willingness to destroy.

God spoke to Moses from a burning bush. This living plant was not consumed by the flames.
That little bush was even more of a little bush, when God was finished speaking with Moses.

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For this command which I enjoin on you today is not too mysterious and remote for you…
I have set before you life and death, a blessing and a curse. Choose life, then, that you and
your descendants may live - by loving the Lord, your God - heeding His voice, and holding fast to Him. [Deut 30:11, 19, 20]

God left that little bush to continue to grow and even flourish.
Why was this so ‘remote’ a concept for the founder of Christianity?

“Chose life, then…”

reen12

 

[Cool_Hand_Luck]

Here is what I really think…I can not join the church because of this attitude. I will remain Lutheran even though I do agree with some of the church’s teaching and my husband is Catholic - I never will be apart of the RCC because I can’t stand this we are right, you’re wrong. We’re truth, you’re from the devil - that’s what is being said here, right? You say that Jesus is truth (we say this as well). But your argument is that we are rejecting truth. This truth is Jesus - we definately are not rejecting Jesus - in fact, our religion is bases on Jesus as you know! You know that Protestants worship Jesus as well, and personally I’ve never personally met anyone that has not sinned. John is speaking of sinning and you are trying to link your argument into it. Have you not sinned?

I can respect where you are coming from, and it is sad to see the attitude. But in all fairness Protestants do the same thing. Not all Protestants, just as not all Catholics have the attitude. But Protestants do have their fair share. There is plenty of anti-Catholic books, web sites etc.
So forgive me if this sounds harsh, but get off your high hoarse. If you have real doctrinal issues so be it. Bring it to the table and we can discuss it. But its not fair to hold the actions of a few Catholics as the whole reason you wont convert.

 

[wmscott]

Here is what I really think…I can not join the church because of this attitude. I will remain Lutheran even though I do agree with some of the church’s teaching and my husband is Catholic - I never will be apart of the RCC because I can’t stand this we are right, you’re wrong. We’re truth, you’re from the devil - that’s what is being said here, right? You say that Jesus is truth (we say this as well). But your argument is that we are rejecting truth. This truth is Jesus - we definately are not rejecting Jesus - in fact, our religion is bases on Jesus as you know! You know that Protestants worship Jesus as well, and personally I’ve never personally met anyone that has not sinned. John is speaking of sinning and you are trying to link your argument into it. Have you not sinned?

With regards to the “we are right and you are wrong” statement you need to understand the this is a Catholic forum dedicated to answering questions, teaching Catholic Truths, correcting falsehoods, and anti-Catholic propaganda. Consequently, there is many, many non-Catholic’s who come here with a very visceral agenda to slander and defame the Catholic Church and Faith. This compels the Faithful Catholic to defend the Faith, and at times, we need to apply an intense posture towards the offender. Now are there extremes on both sides… yes! However, this is not the majority. Since you are Lutheran, let us just look at it for now. It is my understanding that Lutherans are Christians, they believe what the Nicene Creed professes, which pretty much sums up what Catholic believe, Lutherans have the necessary truths for salvation ( the CC does recognize truth wherever it exists), Lutherans are very spiritual and prayerful people, and you have beautiful churches and services. The only thing missing from a Catholic perspective is Apostolic succession And that is where those who like to poke and prod get there starting point in religious arguments and points of view. My personal belief is that all of the main stream “Protestants” e.g. Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, and so on are faithful Christians. I see them as separated brothers and sister and that aside from doctrinal views we are all Gods children and faithful followers of Christ.

 

[distracted]

The only thing missing from a Catholic perspective is Apostolic succession And that is where those who like to poke and prod get there starting point in religious arguments and points of view. My personal belief is that all of the main stream “Protestants” e.g. Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, and so on are faithful Christians. .

this is not accurate. There are other things missing, the most important being the Real Presence in the Eucharist.

One time i was in a strange town and asked someone for directions to the Catholic Churhc. I followed the directions & found a church… I went in the back door… No one was there…I kept wondering Why did i not feel the Presence of Jesus… ?? Something was very, very wrong… it was very dark in there… but the middle of the day & funny no one was there… I walked all through the building. No one was there but, (just being honest) i got this really spooky, eerie feeling… like there was something evil in the building. Again, I wanted to leave but also wanted to find out about Mass… I finally went outside and looked at the sign outside… it was not a Catholic Church, but an Episcopal one…

I finally found the Catholic Church around the corner… No spooky feeling There…

The primary difference between Catholic and non- Catholic Churches is the Real Presence…